Thread: Training biceps..

Is that you in your avatar?

You are doing way too much volume for such a small muscle group. You are blasting the biceps on Monday while doing back and then hitting them again on Thursday with 15 sets. It's no wonder they won't grow, they never get a chance to recover. I do maybe 6 sets a week for biceps and have never had an issue with them growing.

I don't think being sore is always a good sign of a good workout. I always get wicked DOMS after a squat day and FUCKEN hate the fact that I can't walk up stairs for days.

I reckon lifting heavier or for more reps is probably a better sign of a good workout. I know other here love the fact that they get DOMS, each to there own.

I'm actually jealous that you have the time to workout 6 days a week!!

how do you do only biceps in one day?? either you spend 35mins at the gym or your blasting the shit out of them.

Not being sore does not mean you didn't have a good workout.
Increasing muslce size and workout weight is how you gauge progression, not soreness.

IMO you're doing way too much for such a small muscle... I usually do either 3 different excersise for 2 sets or 2 exercises for 3 sets.

Like 5150 said, your biceps are getting worked on other days as well.

Originally Posted by MrKeenan

Obviously a sign of a good workout is being sore the day after, and each body part I train I can get this feeling EXCEPT biceps no matter how much I change my routine around.

My split is:
Mon: Back
Tue: Triceps
Wed: Shoulders
Thur: Biceps
Fri: Chest
Sat: Legs
Sun: Rest

Typical workout would be:
Machine preacher curls x 3
Alternating dumbell curls x 3
Incline bench, dumbell curls x 3
Cable curls x 3
One arm preacher curls x 3

I've tryed nearly everything. I've tryed incorporating an extra set onto the exercises (which I don't see the need to it being such a small muscle I shouldn't need this many exercises to stimulate), I've tryed negatives/partials, I've tryed training them on back day (which I don't like doing because i'm pretty drained from the bigger body parts that I have a seperate day for each body part which is why my split is how it is).
For some reason barbell work never seems to work either no matter how good my form/weight I use is

Any help would be appreciated guys

You should try a different split and only lift 3-4 times a week. An example would be:
monday:tricep/chest
tuesday: off
wednesday:legs
thursday: off
friday:back/biceps/delts

As 5150 mentioned, you need to give your body time to recover. You should try some barbell curls, preachers, and hammers-1-2 sets each with very slow and controlled contractions. Adding extra sets won't do anything if the intensity isn't there. You should lift 3-4days a week max and take extra days off if you need it.

Originally Posted by x~factor

Is that you in your avatar?

haha no, i tryed to get it bigger to show it was Ed Nunn and not me but don't think noobs can get it any larger

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

You are doing way too much volume for such a small muscle group. You are blasting the biceps on Monday while doing back and then hitting them again on Thursday with 15 sets. It's no wonder they won't grow, they never get a chance to recover. I do maybe 6 sets a week for biceps and have never had an issue with them growing.

How can I judge time to recover though if I'm not feeling it in my bi's on the monday? This is why I do them on the thursday to try hit them hard but still get no response? But yes your right about the sets i'm just trying this to get a better feeling from the workout

[QUOTE=yeksetm;2373330]I don't think being sore is always a good sign of a good workout. I always get wicked DOMS after a squat day and FUCKEN hate the fact that I can't walk up stairs for days.

I reckon lifting heavier or for more reps is probably a better sign of a good workout. I know other here love the fact that they get DOMS, each to there own.

I'm actually jealous that you have the time to workout 6 days a week!![/QUOTE]

A lot more spare time now I've finished college for a while haha

A lot more spare time now I've finished college for a while haha

Yes I remember my university days. 12 hours a week of lectures (if I attended), 4 to 5 months off for the summer break. I fuckin miss those days!Now I have a job, morgage and a wife. Enjoy that stage of your life while it lasts.

Just because you aren't feeling anything in your bi's doesn't mean your progressing. Have they gotten bigger? Have you gotten stronger? I would suggest you go to Gaz's website getlifting.info and have a look at some of the programs he has on there. There is some serious mass related programs on there or if your going for strength have a look at the Texas Full Body method. I used it a while back and found the 5x5 days demanding.

To be honest I have got stronger just the growth isn't there, I've seen however an increase in size and strength for triceps of which I have the same sort of set/rep amount as biceps, but I guess they must be a little different

5 straight days of upper body is waaay overkill. And as said above - you're working bis & tris w/ the larger chest, back &shoulder days w/o any time to recover. Guidance is to give at least 36-48 hrs for a muscle group to recover before you train it again. Eventually IMO you're going to run into overtraining issues and develop some stress issues in your joints - rotator / elbow /wrist. DOMS and all that is really not a way to determine how frequently to train the same muscle group. Primarly because people tend to fixate on a particular muscle group they think is lagging and then will start to only pay attention to that. Everyone is born w/ stronger and weaker muscle groups - fixating on the weaker ones because they aren't producing results at the same rate as your stronger ones, isn't necessarily going to make things better. Your body as a whole is still being guided by the same rate of stress it can take, recovery it can produce - so you need to keep the same overall pace. And also keepiing in mind that bis & tris are not large muscle groups and are recruited as part of using your larger muscle groups so not really necessary to treat them like a "primary" group. Look at powerlifters - squat / push / pull (the big muscle groups) and all the other stuff is considered accessory work. and done (if at all) on days when the larger muscle groups are recovering.

Something that might help you is to look at an active recovery schedule where you do complimentary muscle groups on the same day - e.g. back & bis, and then the following week, or if you want to do more frequent workout of the same muscle groups, reverse the order and intensity - e.g. Monday: Heavy back, light bis, Thursday: Heavy bis, light back. This also gives the chance to work them twice, but still give them time to recover. Even tho guidance is at least 2 days between trainig the same muscle group, it is not necessary to do it every 2 days - the more days you can allow yoru body to recovery, the better. You can apply larger cycles to help support result - e.g. heavy for 4-5 weeks, then a couple of light weeks (ref: periodization).

Lots of ways you can schedule your work outs - but what you're doing is not optimal by any stretch and IMO will start to produce some damage in the not too distant future.

Thanks for your help Sassy wouldn't that diminish people saying I need to recover if I wanted to train biceps and back twice a week on both monday and thursday, as they won't have time to rest?

Originally Posted by MrKeenan

How can I judge time to recover though if I'm not feeling it in my bi's on the monday? This is why I do them on the thursday to try hit them hard but still get no response? But yes your right about the sets i'm just trying this to get a better feeling from the workout

You can't really judge recovery in the way you are looking for. Recovery IMO is determined by growth and nutrition. Resting a muscle, letting it heal is what causes growth. Think about a cut, it starts to scab over, to heal. But if you pick at it, it never heals or heals super slow. You have to give the microscopic tears in the muscle time to heal, to get larger.

Try doing biceps with chest if you don't like doing them with back. If it was me, I'd do chest and triceps, legs, shoulders and back and biceps together training on Mon-Tues-Thurs-Fri.

But that's just me.

Originally Posted by MrKeenan

Thanks for your help Sassy wouldn't that diminish people saying I need to recover if I wanted to train biceps and back twice a week on both monday and thursday, as they won't have time to rest?

I thought I addressed that. My point was that just because 2 days is the recommended, it is the MIN recommended and more is also an option. Do you understand that part? W/ this full week of training schedule that you have I want to make sure you aren't interpreting this rule of thumb literally and setting up schedule that is down to 2 days recover and that's the only consideration, still w/ too many days overall, back to back of training. Many people think they are "hardcore" because they never take a day off from the gym when in fact they are sorely naive in missing the importance of the 3rd leg of the fitness lifestyle - diet, training & recovery.

What I described w/ active recovery is that sure, you're having 2 back & bi days within the same week. But they are not the same identical and itensive workout - the first is, e.g. BACK focused, w/ a couple light bi exercises, then the second day is BI focused w/ some light back.

I'm only giving this as an example and am not addressing any of the othre days or whstever you train.

I would recommend you spend some time reading about periodization to better structure your training. I get that you're very enthusiastic about training, so do it better. In fact I'd point you to do some reading on Mark Rippetoe's 5x5 training & periodization to help you with this.

Originally Posted by MrKeenan

haha no, i tryed to get it bigger to show it was Ed Nunn and not me but don't think noobs can get it any larger

Nice of you to change your avatar on me. Now I look like an idiot asking the question.

is OP a frog?

Maybe you should work on resting them first, and then give them an intense work out around three times a week? Do they grow at all?

Originally Posted by x~factor

Is that you in your avatar?

Why, what is wrong with his avatar? Its kermit the frog!

Originally Posted by MrKeenan

To be honest I have got stronger just the growth isn't there, I've seen however an increase in size and strength for triceps of which I have the same sort of set/rep amount as biceps, but I guess they must be a little different

Ya its called muscular endurance. Again do what everyone is telling you man. Low reps. 5-7 max. That will give you bigger size and overall strength. Your muscular endurance may go down but your worried about size.
I also used to do like 15 reps and 20 reps shit sets. Trust me make it harder lower it down. Also your probably getting BURNED your doing set after set of a similar pulling movement. Try supersetting with abs or something.

15 sets is to much for bi's. I blast mine nice and heavy the first movement like straight bar curls. Ill go heavy for 3-4 sets and Blast them. I then go to 12-15 reps and really concentrate on the squeeze and negative with dumbbells and sometimes a machine movement. You can get an incredible workout in way less than an hour, and just 6-8 sets. No i will not post pics,but i have a cold 19.5 arm. I ALWAYS superset bi's and tri's though. 6' plus and 280 at the moment.

Really underestimated barbell work :o tryed some preachers today and got a great feeling taking good care of my form.

Your upper volume is way too much. My suggestion would be two upper days & two lower. The key to the gun show is heavy deads.

?

Wow....more rest, and less consecutive upper body days, as has been said...also, soreness is not an indication of hypertrophy, also to echo above...

In my 10 years of lifting experience, I've had some of the best bicep gains when I did little to no isolation for them but focused rather on compound lifts which hit the bi's indirectly. In that time I also remember almost no bicep soreness post workouts. I dont think DOMS is an indicator of a good workout.