Thread: Pyramid or Straight sets

i always like to pyramid up till my last work set is around 6-8.

Originally Posted by Captn'stabbin

i always like to pyramid up till my last work set is around 6-8.

Sounds about what I do. 4-5 sets starting at 12-15 reps and build the weight up working down to about 4-8 reps on the last set, depending on the exercise. Squats and Deads ill work down to 4 reps. Other exercises Ill usually stop at 6-8 reps min.

Without getting into what’s superior to what, I’ll simply point out what’s going on in a pyramid set. The purpose and use of pyramiding is maximizing the recruitment of motor units. Motor units innervate muscle fibers and the more motor units you recruit, the more muscle fibers you can ultimately recruit to contract during a lift. A light set recruits X amount of motor units, a moderate set recruits a greater amount of motor units and so on.... and physiologically speaking, the closer you get to your maximum recruitment of motor units, the more muscle fibers you are able to activate and contract and the heavier you can lift. That's the primary function of pyramiding from a physiological stand point.

Originally Posted by Captn'stabbin

i always like to pyramid up till my last work set is around 6-8.

This is common, but it works against the most fundamental principle of training. The muscle is not being overloaded optimally until the last set. If you are going to do pyramids, waves tend to work better in theory.

Originally Posted by pebble

This is common, but it works against the most fundamental principle of training. The muscle is not being overloaded optimally until the last set. If you are going to do pyramids, waves tend to work better in theory.

Originally Posted by VolcomX311

Without getting into what’s superior to what, I’ll simply point out what’s going on in a pyramid set. The purpose and use of pyramiding is maximizing the recruitment of motor units. Motor units innervate muscle fibers and the more motor units you recruit, the more muscle fibers you can ultimately recruit to contract during a lift. A light set recruits X amount of motor units, a moderate set recruits a greater amount of motor units and so on.... and physiologically speaking, the closer you get to your maximum recruitment of motor units, the more muscle fibers you are able to activate and contract and the heavier you can lift. That's the primary function of pyramiding from a physiological stand point.

this. Someone paid attention in class...

i like pyramid.. lets me do both light and heavy

Originally Posted by aad123

I am currently mid way through my first real cut and when I reach my goal of 10 to 12% body fat I am planning on going onto a bulking diet over the winter. To get the most out of my bulk I want to ensure my training is spot on. I was wondering if anyone had any advice on the merits of pyramid sets or straight sets.
I am planning of doing four sets for compound movements squats, deadlifts, mill press, bench press and bent row. For these sets I am planning on pyramiding the weight up starting with 12 reps then 10reps, 8 reps and finally 6 reps. I have chose the rep range best suited to hypertrophy.( I did try a strong lifts 5x5 workout for a while but didn't find it to my liking. I seemed to finish up stronger but smaller and fatter).
For the supporting \ isolation movements I may follow the same 12/10/8/6 protocol or do 3 straight sets of 8 to 10 reps.
Do you guys think that pyramiding every exercise for every workout would lead to over training ? Are pyramid sets worth whild doing or should I STICK TO 3X80/10 ? Please advise and let me know what has worked for you.

One other thing i can tell you is, trial and error...

Start a log and track your progress with one method if nothing is really working then switch to a different method. Unfortunately what works for me won't necessarily work for you.

Make sure you are training hard, getting adequate sleep and most important make sure your diet is solid. If you don't have fuel in your tank you can't get anywhere.

Originally Posted by pebble

This is common, but it works against the most fundamental principle of training. The muscle is not being overloaded optimally until the last set.

Pebble,

Pyramids

As you point out, the problem with a pyramid is you ware youself out before you get to your most productive top set.

Warm Up

The point of a warm up is to prepare you for your top set. Thus, the minimal amount of a warm up enables you to push more weight or reps in your top set.

Originally Posted by pebble

If you are going to do pyramids, waves tend to work better in theory.

Inverted Pyramid

A more effective method is an Inverted Pyramid.

Bench Press

Let's say your top bench press is 250 X 5.

Sets, Reps, Weight Inverted Pyramid Example

Set 1: 135 X 8

Set 2: 160 X 3

Set 3: 200 X 2

Set 4: 225 X 1

Set 5: 250 X 5 plus reps

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Pebble,

Pyramids

As you point out, the problem with a pyramid is you ware youself out before you get to your most productive top set.

Warm Up

The point of a warm up is to prepare you for your top set. Thus, the minimal amount of a warm up enables you to push more weight or reps in your top set.



Inverted Pyramid

A more effective method is an Inverted Pyramid.

Bench Press

Let's say your top bench press is 250 X 5.

Sets, Reps, Weight Inverted Pyramid Example

Set 1: 135 X 8

Set 2: 160 X 3

Set 3: 200 X 2

Set 4: 225 X 1

Set 5: 250 X 5 plus reps

Kenny Croxdale

Don't you think that applies more to a PL'er than BB'er? I prefer to be fully warmed before going heavy especially on the first exercise. Shit i saw a guy tear his Bicep yesterday spotting.

Would a type of reverse pyramid set work. For example I do a 12 - 15 rep warm-up set and then go straight to the heavy working set for 6 reps. I then drop the weight for the next set aiming for 8 reps then I drop the weight again for the final set aiming for 10 reps. That way I'm getting the benifit from the heavy set whilst I'm still fresh and I also cover the entire 12 / 6 rep range.
Just putting ideas out to see what you guys think.

Also could you explain what WAVE pyramids are.

Originally Posted by aad123

Would a type of reverse pyramid set work. For example I do a 12 - 15 rep warm-up set and then go straight to the heavy working set for 6 reps. I then drop the weight for the next set aiming for 8 reps then I drop the weight again for the final set aiming for 10 reps. That way I'm getting the benifit from the heavy set whilst I'm still fresh and I also cover the entire 12 / 6 rep range.
Just putting ideas out to see what you guys think.

Also could you explain what WAVE pyramids are.

Some peope reverse pyramid. The best advice is to just do whatever you're doing until your body stops respondng to what you're doing, then you can move on to something new, like HIT, DC, 5x5, Volume Training...etc., all of it elicits a unique form of intensity and all of it is good for a season. The bottom line to building muscle is stress and adaptation, new stress elicits new adaptations, once the body becomes efficient toward a particular form of stress, the adaptation process slows dramatically and by adaptation I'm speaking specifically of muscle hypertrophy. Unless you're training for sports where velocity movements should be a prime focus or you're power lifting where strength and strength alone is a prime focus, you can play with a lot of training methods and reap positive results.

Arnold used uber volume training, Dorian used HIT, Dave Henry uses DC and Jay Cutler uses traditional pyramiding, some of these are polar opposites in style relative to volume x intensity, but all can be effective. There are a lot of effective approaches to eliciting muscle hypertrophy, so don't get stuck on what's superior to what. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Captn'stabbin

Don't you think that applies more to a PL'er than BB'er?

Captn'stabbin,

The same principle applies with bodybuilders. The purpose is to warm up for you top set rather than wear youself out before you get there.

Originally Posted by Captn'stabbin

I prefer to be fully warmed before going heavy especially on the first exercise.

You can do that with an Inverted Pyramid. I've used that method since about 1980 for strength and hypertrophy (bodybuilding), with no problems.

Pavel's Beyond Strengthing (book) goes into the value of limiting your warm up so you have more for yout top sets.

What you want to do is find the minimal amount of warmp ups that prepare you for your top sets.

Originally Posted by Captn'stabbin

Shit i saw a guy tear his Bicep yesterday spotting.

More than likely, it was an accident waiting to happen.

Kenny Croxdale

I've trained both by pyramiding and reverse pyramiding, and find that both have merits. The only downside to pyramiding is that some will leave a bit to much in the tank for that last heavy set. Doing this keeps the first sets from being as productive. Also, the chance of injury in my opinion is greater with reverse pyramiding if one doesn't warm up properly.

It all comes down to what works best for you. If you can generate enough intensity, and type of workout will yield results.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

I've trained both by pyramiding and reverse pyramiding, and find that both have merits. The only downside to pyramiding is that some will leave a bit to much in the tank for that last heavy set.

Anabolic,

Having more in the tank for you last heavy set means you can either crank out more reps that you expecected or that you can increase your top set. That a good thing.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

Doing this keeps the first sets from being as productive.

The first set of what, your warm up?

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

Also, the chance of injury in my opinion is greater with reverse pyramiding if one doesn't warm up properly.

What information is your opinion based on?

As I stated, you want to perform the minimal amount of warm up to insure you at your best.

The problem (as I've stated) is that many individuals turn their warm up in to a workout.

Thus, you have nothing in the tank rather than "having a bit too much in the tank..."

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

It all comes down to what works best for you. If you can generate enough intensity, and type of workout will yield results.

A lot of it comes down more to a "conditioned reaction". Anything new doesn't initially feel right...even though it might be.

Most individuals stick with what they know rather than try new ideas.

At least you tried it.

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Anabolic,

Having more in the tank for you last heavy set means you can either crank out more reps that you expecected or that you can increase your top set. That a good thing.

If you are pussy footing the first sets, they are in fact warm ups.



The first set of what, your warm up?

The first work sets as you work up.




What information is your opinion based on?

As I stated, you want to perform the minimal amount of warm up to insure you at your best.

The problem (as I've stated) is that many individuals turn their warm up in to a workout.

Thus, you have nothing in the tank rather than "having a bit too much in the tank..."

Based on my own training experience. Some as you stated turn warm ups into extra work sets. Like you, I do just enough to be warm enough to handle my training poundages.

A lot of it comes down more to a "conditioned reaction". Anything new doesn't initially feel right...even though it might be.

Most individuals stick with what they know rather than try new ideas.

At least you tried it.

Kenny Croxdale

I'm my own lab rat Bro, after 20+ years of doing this, you pretty much have tried everything unless you have your head buried in the sand.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

I'm my own lab rat Bro, after 20+ years of doing this, you pretty much have tried everything unless you have your head buried in the sand.

You more of an exception to the rule in trying new methods.

Most individuals are afraid they are going to lose ground and go backward when they try something new, which may well happen.

It is part of the learning process. However, it more like taking one step backward and two steps forward.

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Captn'stabbin,

The same principle applies with bodybuilders. The purpose is to warm up for you top set rather than wear youself out before you get there.



You can do that with an Inverted Pyramid. I've used that method since about 1980 for strength and hypertrophy (bodybuilding), with no problems.

Pavel's Beyond Strengthing (book) goes into the value of limiting your warm up so you have more for yout top sets.

What you want to do is find the minimal amount of warmp ups that prepare you for your top sets.



More than likely, it was an accident waiting to happen.

Kenny Croxdale

I have done those pyramids before and i find that my balance is off and it just feels wrong. I like to work up in 20lb increments on DB's and it seems the best for me.
Ex. warm up set of 60's X 20+
80's X 10
100's X 10
sometimes from here i go to 110's X 6 to test the waters then
120's X what ever i get them for 4-7

I don't think it detracts from my workouts at all, i feel it helps me recruit more muscles fibers to handle heavier weight more safely. If that makes sense.

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

You more of an exception to the rule in trying new methods.

Most individuals are afraid they are going to lose ground and go backward when they try something new, which may well happen.

It is part of the learning process. However, it more like taking one step backward and two steps forward.

Kenny Croxdale

My very first training partner told me something that has always stuck with me. He said and I will quote "You do the same shit tomorrow that you did today, you'll look exactly the same next year as you did yesterday."

I was like WTF?? But it opened my eyes to changing things up and noting the results over a period of time. It helped me get where I am today.

Originally Posted by Captn'stabbin

I have done those pyramids before and i find that my balance is off and it just feels wrong. I like to work up in 20lb increments on DB's and it seems the best for me.
Ex. warm up set of 60's X 20+
80's X 10
100's X 10
sometimes from here i go to 110's X 6 to test the waters then
120's X what ever i get them for 4-7

I don't think it detracts from my workouts at all, i feel it helps me recruit more muscles fibers to handle heavier weight more safely. If that makes sense.

Don't know if you've ever heard of MaxOT training, used by Skip LaCour. I don't train their style, but the have a great read on proper warmups. If I can find it, I'll post it. It's the way I warm up now, really seems to work.

Warming up the Max-OT way

I want you to remember the following. Max-OT is all about building muscle. Max-OT takes the approach that every rep, every set and every workout is done for one reason - to build muscle and strength. This is very important. If you do a rep, set, or entire workout with weights for any other reason then you need to seriously question just why you are training in the first place.

Any time you wrap your hands around a bar and start a set it should be approached with the mindset of building muscle and strength. You should be able to quantify why you do each rep. What other physiological reason is there for lifting weights? So every time you do a rep you know that that rep is either directly involved in building muscle or is a necessary prerequisite to the muscle building reps.

How most lifters fail to take the right approach from the very start

Efficiency is one of the main attributes of Max-OT training. The more efficient you train the more effective your workout is going to be, the more muscle you are going to build and the quicker you are going to build that muscle.

Why expend precious energy without using maximum efficiency? Warming-up properly is an area of training that should be performed with the utmost efficiency because it is the prelude to building muscle.

Warming up improperly will impede your ability to maximize muscle overload, total muscle fiber stimulation, and growth
Warming up correctly will allow you to expend the maximum physical mental intensity on the sets that count the most - the muscle building sets.

Warming up the right way

Here we are going to take the Bench Press and show you a proper warm-up technique that will allow you to lift more weight on your heavy sets. Remember, more weight - more overload - more muscle.

Again well use 275 as your heavy weight. If you typically warm-up and train like I pointed out earlier the 275 will feel a lot lighter this time.

First Set:
135 x 12 reps (warm-up)

These should be good smooth reps. Not too slow and not to fast. Your main goal is to increase blood flow and get the feel of the movement and the weight. After this first set you should rest about 2 minutes.

Second Set:
135 x 10 reps (warm-up)

Same weight as before. Rhythm should be a little faster this time. Not much faster. Rest about 2 minutes.

Third Set:
185 x 6 reps (warm-up)

This should be a deliberate set done at a moderate pace. This is the next step in weight acclimation. It should feel light and 4 reps should be very easy. Rest about 2 to 3 minutes before the next set.

Fourth Set:
225 x 3 reps (weight acclimation)

You should follow the same rhythm as in the last set. 3 strong reps. Rest 2 minutes before next set.

Fifth Set:
255 x 1 rep (weight acclimation)

That's right, just 1 rep. The purpose here is weight acclimation. This should be a strong, powerful and deliberate rep.

Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth Sets:
285 x 4 to 6 reps (muscle-building)

These are the muscle building sets. Very important. These are the only sets that produce muscle growth. All the sets leading up to these heavy sets are merely warm-up sets and are treated as just that and nothing more.

Notice we went to 285 instead of 275. Warming up the Max-OT allows you to use heavier weight during the most important muscle building sets.

Posted on: October 17 08
Posted by: Paul Delia ,President -AS


Copied from the Max OT website verbatim.

Without getting into what’s superior to what, I’ll simply point out what’s going on in a pyramid set.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

Warming up the Max-OT way

I want you to remember the following. Max-OT is all about building muscle. Max-OT takes the approach that every rep, every set and every workout is done for one reason - to build muscle and strength. This is very important. If you do a rep, set, or entire workout with weights for any other reason then you need to seriously question just why you are training in the first place.

Any time you wrap your hands around a bar and start a set it should be approached with the mindset of building muscle and strength. You should be able to quantify why you do each rep. What other physiological reason is there for lifting weights? So every time you do a rep you know that that rep is either directly involved in building muscle or is a necessary prerequisite to the muscle building reps.

How most lifters fail to take the right approach from the very start

Efficiency is one of the main attributes of Max-OT training. The more efficient you train the more effective your workout is going to be, the more muscle you are going to build and the quicker you are going to build that muscle.

Why expend precious energy without using maximum efficiency? Warming-up properly is an area of training that should be performed with the utmost efficiency because it is the prelude to building muscle.

Warming up improperly will impede your ability to maximize muscle overload, total muscle fiber stimulation, and growth
Warming up correctly will allow you to expend the maximum physical mental intensity on the sets that count the most - the muscle building sets.

Warming up the right way

Here we are going to take the Bench Press and show you a proper warm-up technique that will allow you to lift more weight on your heavy sets. Remember, more weight - more overload - more muscle.

Again well use 275 as your heavy weight. If you typically warm-up and train like I pointed out earlier the 275 will feel a lot lighter this time.

First Set:
135 x 12 reps (warm-up)

These should be good smooth reps. Not too slow and not to fast. Your main goal is to increase blood flow and get the feel of the movement and the weight. After this first set you should rest about 2 minutes.

Second Set:
135 x 10 reps (warm-up)

Same weight as before. Rhythm should be a little faster this time. Not much faster. Rest about 2 minutes.

Third Set:
185 x 6 reps (warm-up)

This should be a deliberate set done at a moderate pace. This is the next step in weight acclimation. It should feel light and 4 reps should be very easy. Rest about 2 to 3 minutes before the next set.

Fourth Set:
225 x 3 reps (weight acclimation)

You should follow the same rhythm as in the last set. 3 strong reps. Rest 2 minutes before next set.

Fifth Set:
255 x 1 rep (weight acclimation)

That's right, just 1 rep. The purpose here is weight acclimation. This should be a strong, powerful and deliberate rep.

Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth Sets:
285 x 4 to 6 reps (muscle-building)

These are the muscle building sets. Very important. These are the only sets that produce muscle growth. All the sets leading up to these heavy sets are merely warm-up sets and are treated as just that and nothing more.

Notice we went to 285 instead of 275. Warming up the Max-OT allows you to use heavier weight during the most important muscle building sets.

Posted on: October 17 08
Posted by: Paul Delia ,President -AS


Copied from the Max OT website verbatim.

Interesting, i'll try it out and see how it feels.

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

Warming up the Max-OT way

I want you to remember the following. Max-OT is all about building muscle. Max-OT takes the approach that every rep, every set and every workout is done for one reason - to build muscle and strength. This is very important. If you do a rep, set, or entire workout with weights for any other reason then you need to seriously question just why you are training in the first place.

Any time you wrap your hands around a bar and start a set it should be approached with the mindset of building muscle and strength. You should be able to quantify why you do each rep. What other physiological reason is there for lifting weights? So every time you do a rep you know that that rep is either directly involved in building muscle or is a necessary prerequisite to the muscle building reps.

How most lifters fail to take the right approach from the very start

Efficiency is one of the main attributes of Max-OT training. The more efficient you train the more effective your workout is going to be, the more muscle you are going to build and the quicker you are going to build that muscle.

Why expend precious energy without using maximum efficiency? Warming-up properly is an area of training that should be performed with the utmost efficiency because it is the prelude to building muscle.

Warming up improperly will impede your ability to maximize muscle overload, total muscle fiber stimulation, and growth
Warming up correctly will allow you to expend the maximum physical mental intensity on the sets that count the most - the muscle building sets.

Warming up the right way

Here we are going to take the Bench Press and show you a proper warm-up technique that will allow you to lift more weight on your heavy sets. Remember, more weight - more overload - more muscle.

Again well use 275 as your heavy weight. If you typically warm-up and train like I pointed out earlier the 275 will feel a lot lighter this time.

First Set:
135 x 12 reps (warm-up)

These should be good smooth reps. Not too slow and not to fast. Your main goal is to increase blood flow and get the feel of the movement and the weight. After this first set you should rest about 2 minutes.

Second Set:
135 x 10 reps (warm-up)

Same weight as before. Rhythm should be a little faster this time. Not much faster. Rest about 2 minutes.

Third Set:
185 x 6 reps (warm-up)

This should be a deliberate set done at a moderate pace. This is the next step in weight acclimation. It should feel light and 4 reps should be very easy. Rest about 2 to 3 minutes before the next set.

Fourth Set:
225 x 3 reps (weight acclimation)

You should follow the same rhythm as in the last set. 3 strong reps. Rest 2 minutes before next set.

Fifth Set:
255 x 1 rep (weight acclimation)

That's right, just 1 rep. The purpose here is weight acclimation. This should be a strong, powerful and deliberate rep.

Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth Sets:
285 x 4 to 6 reps (muscle-building)

These are the muscle building sets. Very important. These are the only sets that produce muscle growth. All the sets leading up to these heavy sets are merely warm-up sets and are treated as just that and nothing more.

Notice we went to 285 instead of 275. Warming up the Max-OT allows you to use heavier weight during the most important muscle building sets.

Posted on: October 17 08
Posted by: Paul Delia ,President -AS


Copied from the Max OT website verbatim.

Anabolic,

Max-OT "Inverted Pyramid Warm Ups--Heavier Weight Muscle Building Sets

I appreciate you posting that article. It certainly supports my position on warm ups.

I don't see much value in two warm up sets with 135. However, I don't see any harm either.

The Size Principle

While higher reps with light loads increase blood flow to the muscle, very few Type II Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber are innervated.

Primarily, Type I Slow Twich Muscle Fiber primarily involved.

Increasing Type II Fast Twich Muscle Fiber

As we know, Type II Fast Twitch is immediately innervated with heavy movements, power movements, and speed movements.

Thus, driving the bar up with more speed and power in your warm up innervates these Type II Fast Twich Muscle Fiber.

Driving the bar up with more speed and power also warms up the central nervous system, the "mother board" of movement.

Thus, an effective method of warming up the muscles as well as your central nervous system is:

Compensatory Acceleration Cluster Set Warm Up

Cluster Sets taken with short rest periods between them, approximately 10-30seconds. These short rest periods allow you to exert more force (power and speed).

Thus, rather than performing a non-stop set of 135 X 10-12 reps, the Cluster Set Warm Up would involve:

1) Performing 2-3 reps per set.

2) Racking the bar.

3) Resting 10-30 seconds.

4) Peforming 2-3 more reps.

5) Repeating the process for a total of 10-12 reps.

Ramping Up Bar Speed

What you want to do is move the bar with as much speed and power as you can.

Since it's a warm up, you want to gradually increase the bar speed with each Cluster Set.

Example of 135 Cluster Warm Up Set

Again, take 10-30 second rest periods between sets.

Set 1: 135 X 3 reps with moderate speed.

Set 2: 135 X 3 reps, a bit more speed.

Set 3: 135 X 3 reps, with even more speed.

Set 4: 135 X 3 reps, with more speed than in set 3.

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Anabolic5150

Warming up the Max-OT way

I want you to remember the following. Max-OT is all about building muscle. Max-OT takes the approach that every rep, every set and every workout is done for one reason - to build muscle and strength. This is very important. If you do a rep, set, or entire workout with weights for any other reason then you need to seriously question just why you are training in the first place.

Any time you wrap your hands around a bar and start a set it should be approached with the mindset of building muscle and strength. You should be able to quantify why you do each rep. What other physiological reason is there for lifting weights? So every time you do a rep you know that that rep is either directly involved in building muscle or is a necessary prerequisite to the muscle building reps.



Efficiency is one of the main attributes of Max-OT training. The more efficient you train the more effective your workout is going to be, the more muscle you are going to build and the quicker you are going to build that muscle.

Why expend precious energy without using maximum efficiency? Warming-up properly is an area of training that should be performed with the utmost efficiency because it is the prelude to building muscle.

Warming up improperly will impede your ability to maximize muscle overload, total muscle fiber stimulation, and growth
Warming up correctly will allow you to expend the maximum physical mental intensity on the sets that count the most - the muscle building sets.

Warming up the right way

Here we are going to take the Bench Press and show you a proper warm-up technique that will allow you to lift more weight on your heavy sets. Remember, more weight - more overload - more muscle.

Again well use 275 as your heavy weight. If you typically warm-up and train like I pointed out earlier the 275 will feel a lot lighter this time.

First Set:
135 x 12 reps (warm-up)

These should be good smooth reps. Not too slow and not to fast. Your main goal is to increase blood flow and get the feel of the movement and the weight. After this first set you should rest about 2 minutes.

Second Set:
135 x 10 reps (warm-up)

Same weight as before. Rhythm should be a little faster this time. Not much faster. Rest about 2 minutes.

Third Set:
185 x 6 reps (warm-up)

This should be a deliberate set done at a moderate pace. This is the next step in weight acclimation. It should feel light and 4 reps should be very easy. Rest about 2 to 3 minutes before the next set.

Fourth Set:
225 x 3 reps (weight acclimation)

You should follow the same rhythm as in the last set. 3 strong reps. Rest 2 minutes before next set.

Fifth Set:
255 x 1 rep (weight acclimation)

That's right, just 1 rep. The purpose here is weight acclimation. This should be a strong, powerful and deliberate rep.

Sixth, Seventh, and Eighth Sets:
285 x 4 to 6 reps (muscle-building)

These are the muscle building sets. Very important. These are the only sets that produce muscle growth. All the sets leading up to these heavy sets are merely warm-up sets and are treated as just that and nothing more.

Notice we went to 285 instead of 275. Warming up the Max-OT allows you to use heavier weight during the most important muscle building sets.

Posted on: October 17 08
Posted by: Paul Delia ,President -AS


Copied from the Max OT website verbatim.

Would this system work whilst I'm cutting?
I currently train 4 days a week on a 2 day split.
Day 1
Squats - Mill Press - Pulldows - Curls
Day 2
Deadlift -Bench Press - Bent Row - Dips

I have based my workout around compound movements to prevent muscle loss and reduce time in the gym whilst dieting. I currently do 3 sets of 10 for the first 3 movements and 2 sets of 12 for the final movements.

Also with the high number of sets in this system would you only perform one exercise per body part or would you do it only on the first compound movement with other isolation exercises for the same muscle group done is a different way ?
With the 6th, 7th & 8th sets would you increase the weight once you get 6 reps for each set ?
Sorry to ask so many questions but if I intend to give this system a fair trial then I need to know exactly how it works.

As I was told by an old fella in the gym "If you keep doing what you have always done then you will keep getting what you have always got" and "if you fail to plan you plan to fail"

Originally Posted by aad123

Would this system work whilst I'm cutting?
I currently train 4 days a week on a 2 day split.
Day 1
Squats - Mill Press - Pulldows - Curls
Day 2
Deadlift -Bench Press - Bent Row - Dips

I have based my workout around compound movements to prevent muscle loss and reduce time in the gym whilst dieting. I currently do 3 sets of 10 for the first 3 movements and 2 sets of 12 for the final movements.

Also with the high number of sets in this system would you only perform one exercise per body part or would you do it only on the first compound movement with other isolation exercises for the same muscle group done is a different way ?
With the 6th, 7th & 8th sets would you increase the weight once you get 6 reps for each set ?
Sorry to ask so many questions but if I intend to give this system a fair trial then I need to know exactly how it works.

As I was told by an old fella in the gym "If you keep doing what you have always done then you will keep getting what you have always got" and "if you fail to plan you plan to fail"

The outline is just for warm ups, the last three sets at 285 as listed above are the work sets. You can go to AST-SS.com or google Max OT training and they have a free online tutorial of the whole program. Would it work for cutting, probably, but I have never used the program, just the warm ups.

My understanding is that once you get to the top rep number (six here) that yes you increase weight.

I'd get the whole course, it is free, read it and analyze and then see if it works for you Bro. Give it a good 8-12 week try.

I have had a read of the MAX-OT training and the system seems a little too rigid. I understand the warm up section but the exercises are too set. In a small gym like the one I use you need to be flexible with your workouts. I was thinking of using a periodization system rotating between 5x5, 4x8/12, pyramids or reverse pyramids. I will either change on a weekly basis or possibly a 4/6 weekly rotation. Using this method I will get a solid strength base from the 5x5 portion, hypertrophy from the 4x8/12 and a little of both from the pyramids. With the constant change in weights and reps my body will be confused and forced to adapt and grow.
With exercise selection I was thinking 3 to 4 exercises for larger muscle groups (2 compound and 1 isolation) and 2 exercises for smaller muscle groups.
My training split would be something along the lines of
Legs
Chest & Tri
Back & Bi
Shoulders & traps.

How does this all sound ?
What would you change ?

Max OT is very rigid, that's why I have never used it. I like to train by feel, to get "freaky" at times. But for some it works perfectly. Have to try it and see.

i have used max ot...well a basterdized version of it. so by their rule i guess i really haven't done it, but that being said.
i spent a long time using max ot as a platform
2 to 3 sets 4 to 6 reps
no more than 9 reps per workout, and made some pretty nice gains, i was not trying to cut so i don't know how well it would work for that?