Thread: different ab exercise every workout

I don't think constantly changing exercises makes much sense in any program. One of the key principles of an effective exercise routine is to implement planned progression. You have no way of doing so if the exercise is constantly changing. Should you change exercises periodically? Sure, but don't do it every workout.

Originally Posted by cowpimp

i don't think constantly changing exercises makes much sense in any program. One of the key principles of an effective exercise routine is to implement planned progression. You have no way of doing so if the exercise is constantly changing. Should you change exercises periodically? Sure, but don't do it every workout.

+1

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I don't think constantly changing exercises makes much sense in any program. One of the key principles of an effective exercise routine is to implement planned progression. You have no way of doing so if the exercise is constantly changing. Should you change exercises periodically? Sure, but don't do it every workout.

That! Plus a lot of weight would equal in a bigger blockier waste which isn't really aesthetic. I would up the reps to increase the intensity not the weight if you're shooting for a more aesthetic appearance

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I don't think constantly changing exercises makes much sense in any program. One of the key principles of an effective exercise routine is to implement planned progression. You have no way of doing so if the exercise is constantly changing. Should you change exercises periodically? Sure, but don't do it every workout.

Exactly this. Only change it up every 2 months or so to confuse up your muscles a bit. And as always, abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym.

3x a week is a bit much IMO, you don't train any other muscle 3x a week, so why abs? Gotta give em time to recover. Maybe 2x a week instead.

Originally Posted by squigader

3x a week is a bit much IMO, you don't train any other muscle 3x a week, so why abs? Gotta give em time to recover. Maybe 2x a week instead.

agree, but i train them only with 1 exercise, 3 sets, so i think 3 day a week would be ok?

so maybe alternate between weighted bench crunches and hanging leg raises, and the after some weeks change exercises, yes?

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I don't think constantly changing exercises makes much sense in any program.

Cowpimp,

Undulating/Non-Linear Periodization Training

New research indicates that more frequent changes elicit a better training effect.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

One of the key principles of an effective exercise routine is to implement planned progression. You have no way of doing so if the exercise is constantly changing. Should you change exercises periodically? Sure, but don't do it every workout.

Planned Progression

I agree with some staple exercise you need some type of planned progression. A major factor in determine the length of the progress is one's...

Training Age (years of lifting)

As you are aware, a novice can make progress much longer on a program than someone more advanced.

Changing Exercise Every Workout

I see this as a viable method with auxiliary exercises. In other words, follow a progressive program with the staple movements.

Change the auxiliary exercises up evey workout, as fqqs does.

Disposable Exercises

Thus, auxiliary exercise are "disposable". You push them to the limit in one training session (burn them out) and use another exercise for that particutar muscle group the following traiing session.

The "disposable" exercise can be use a few weeks later, if you like.

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by ItsAParadox

That! Plus a lot of weight would equal in a bigger blockier waste which isn't really aesthetic. I would up the reps to increase the intensity not the weight if you're shooting for a more aesthetic appearance

Myth: Heavy Ab Training = Blocker Abs

This myth just won't seem to go away. Heavy training with the abs isn't going dramatically increase their size.

If so, exactly how much larger abs will they become?

Squigader

"...abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym."

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by fqqs

i have got pretty good developed abs already but i want to be better

i lift 3 days a week. after each workout (almost only compound exercises) i plan to do 1 ab exercise (3 sets, usually weighted). every workout = different ab exercise.

for example:

monday: haning leg raises 3x12
wednesday: weighted crunches 3x12
friday: decline crnuches 3xMax

2nd week:

monday: russian twist 3x12
wednesday: wieghetd bicycle crunches 3x12
friday: weighetd crunches 3x12


wthat do you think about that approach? i simply dont want my abs to get used to exercises. and 3-5 min for abs after each heavy weights workout seems reasonable

well all your sets are weighted, isnt that going to build alot of width>

Why dont you want your abs to get used to exercises? I mean there is no reason why you cant do say 3 exercises 3 sets for high reps of 25 all circuit trained/super setted..... the old time bodybuilders used ab exercises like cardio doing roman chair situps for 500-1000 reps.I would go heavy 1 day a week for abs and go circuit for the rest. I also dont think 3 sets for abs is going to do anything but keep them toned.... if you want to change things around, then target a certain part of the abs and flush it out with 3 different exercises, targeting it . So for lower abs, say you did bench leg raises with hips coming off bench, then do knee ins off bench as many as you can do, followed by hanging leg raises with bent knee and focus on squeezing and roling your knees into your chest and tie in incline bent knee situps wehre you go 1/2 way down and squeeze at the top, taht hits the obliques lower abs tie on....

Do that circuit 15-25 reps each in a circuit, if you have to, just do one set of each to keep program shorter.

Next workout, do alot of obliques with twists, side crunches, hyperextension machine on the side so it is like a side situp and rope pulls off pulley for the side. I think 3 exercises, even if only 1 set each is better and your abs aint going to get used to this.

Originally Posted by carmineb

well all your sets are weighted, isnt that going to build alot of width>

Exactly, how much width will it build?

As I previously noted, this myth won't go away and keeps being perpetuated.

Originally Posted by carmineb

Why dont you want your abs to get used to exercises? I mean there is no reason why you cant do say 3 exercises 3 sets for high reps of 25 all circuit trained/super setted..... the old time bodybuilders used ab exercises like cardio doing roman chair situps for 500-1000 reps.

Doing that many reps was/is idiotic.

Exactly, what purpose does it serve?

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Cowpimp,

Undulating/Non-Linear Periodization Training

New research indicates that more frequent changes elicit a better training effect.

This has nothing to do with exercise selection. Undulating periodization is about altering volume and intensity more frequently, which I definitely advocate.

Planned Progression

I agree with some staple exercise you need some type of planned progression. A major factor in determine the length of the progress is one's...

Training Age (years of lifting)

As you are aware, a novice can make progress much longer on a program than someone more advanced.

This is very true. However, it does not necessarily mean that you should be changing exercises every single workout. That is unnecessary for even the most advanced trainees.

As well, even advanced lifters really don't need to alter exercise selection all that much. Once again, the other variables like volume, intensity, and frequency are more important for continued progress.

Changing Exercise Every Workout

I see this as a viable method with auxiliary exercises. In other words, follow a progressive program with the staple movements.

Change the auxiliary exercises up evey workout, as fqqs does.

This is not an unreasonable statement. At least that way you have some method of tracking progress. As long as the more major lifts continue to improve, it probably means your accessory work is accomplishing what it is supposed to. At the same time, you will likely find some accessory exercises that really support gains in the more important lifts. It's hard to pin down the accessory work that is doing this most effectively without keeping it around for at least a few weeks at a time.

Disposable Exercises

Thus, auxiliary exercise are "disposable". You push them to the limit in one training session (burn them out) and use another exercise for that particutar muscle group the following traiing session.

The "disposable" exercise can be use a few weeks later, if you like.

Kenny Croxdale

This is a more reasonable method of rotating exercises frequently. At least that way you have some measure of progress in that particular movement a few weeks later.

What's this "Ab Exercise" Thing ya'll are talking about???

Originally Posted by CowPimp

This has nothing to do with exercise selection. Undulating periodization is about altering volume and intensity more frequently, which I definitely advocate.

Correct.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

This is very true. However, it does not necessarily mean that you should be changing exercises every single workout. That is unnecessary for even the most advanced trainees..

As I stated in a previous post, change ups only would occur with auxiliary exericses, not the staples.

"Planned Progression

I agree with some staple exercise you need some type of planned progression."

Length Of Stape Undulating Program

I agree with Vladimir M. Zatsiorsky (Science and Practice of Strength Training). Zatsiorsky undulating recommendation is three weeks.

I've used that three week cycle for over a decaded with great results. I've pushed the staple exercise for four weeks, dependent on how I felt.

Larry Scott, The First Mr Olympic

Scott changed his exercises every workout. That seemed to have worked well for him.

Auxiliary Exercise Rotatation

I see no problem with rotating the "disposable" auxiliary exercises every workout.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

As well, even advanced lifters really don't need to alter exercise selection all that much. Once again, the other variables like volume, intensity, and frequency are more important for continued progress.

West Side Method

I agree with Louie Simmons on rotating auxiliary exercise, especilly for advanced lifters.

Charles Poliquin, Canadian Strength Coach

Poliquin has stated much the same.

Bench Press More Now
Dr Tom McLaughlin (PhD Exercise Physiology Biomechanics/Former Powerlifter)

McLaulin's book is a brilliant piece of worked based on science and empirical data.

Pole Vaulting For Reps

As McLaughlin points out, the best way to perfect a skill is to practice it with submaximal loads, about 85% or higher of your 1RM.

"Practice Doesn't Make Perfect. Perfect Practice Make Perfect"Vince Lombardi

That means the moment your technique breaks down in a movement, STOP. Continueing to perform it teaches you to perform it incorrectly.

McLaughlin, Simmons, Poliquin On Auxiliary Exercises

Here's where you build strength.

Staple Auxiliary Exercise

Use a Progressive Plan (three week or four). Longer time periods are unnecessary.

Disposable Auxiliary Exericses

Here when you can push one exercise to the limit and then dispose of it for a month or longer before going back to it.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

This is not an unreasonable statement. At least that way you have some method of tracking progress. As long as the more major lifts continue to improve, it probably means your accessory work is accomplishing what it is supposed to. At the same time, you will likely find some accessory exercises that really support gains in the more important lifts. It's hard to pin down the accessory work that is doing this most effectively without keeping it around for at least a few weeks at a time..

I try not to make unreasonable statements...

Keep the exercise around as long as you feel it it producting results. Then dump it.

However, there is a productive quality in constant rotation auxiliary exercises, every week or every three weeks.

Example of Weekly Rotation

One of the things that I am now playing with is weekly rotation or Occlustion Training exercises.

The Occlusion Training exercises are at the very end of the program.

The Focus

The focus is on flooding the muscle with blood. As your probably familiar with, Occlusion Training appears to produce a hormonal growth effect.

Thus, the method not the movement is the key to producing this hormonal training effect.

The Irony Of Occlusion Training

Unfortunately, we strayed off the path of the post. However, while we're here...

When you look Occlusion Training, you realize that bodybuilders have used a form of this method for decades. Occlusion just provide a strange twist to an old method based on anecdotal data.

Another topic for another time.

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Exactly, how much width will it build?

As I previously noted, this myth won't go away and keeps being perpetuated.



Doing that many reps was/is idiotic.

Exactly, what purpose does it serve?

Kenny Croxdale

the old time bodybuilders had super slender waist lines and they swore on high reps, maybe the slow twitching fibers gave a more asthetic look than the rugged fast twitch fibers.

I will say 30 years ago, I used to workout with a competitive bodybuilder and he treated his abs like any other bodypart and used weighted when he could for 20 reps.....

I dont know about how much width. If you were to do higher reps and more volume for any muscle group or go heavy and less volume, isnt that muscle group going to react differently? Why are abs any different? Arent both going to give a different look? (just asking, I dont know)

hi i like it.........keep it up.....

Originally Posted by carmineb

the old time bodybuilders had super slender waist lines and they swore on high reps, maybe the slow twitching fibers gave a more asthetic look than the rugged fast twitch fibers.

Ultra Marathon Reps

I understand peforming higher reps for a muscle that has more slow twitch muslce fiber. However, how much sense does it make to perform 500-1000 reps.

As Squigader stated in his post.

"...abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym."

Kenny Croxdale

abs are abs.. I don't log my ab workouts, I do it until it burns and hurts

great abs are made in the kitchen not in the gym....

I am really curious how this thread got so far without him actually asking anything. I don't mean to be a jerk, I just want to know what you mean by "better." The only question I got was that he didn't want his body to get used to it, so what should he do.

That was answered with the change after two months, unless you are more advanced and progress slows, then earlier.

I have found personally that in secondary exercises, bench as an example, constantly changing my supplementary exercises such as different angled flies on different machines switching cables to dumbbells to machines, and triceps from close grip to reverse grip on incline decline regular, to every other exercise I've done, I did not notice as much strength growth. My control has become much better. It is evident to me my little tiny stabilized muscles are growing and helping me build control through switching through different exercises to supplement rather than going heavy with repeat exercises.

But strength had a consistant growth rate when doing the same exercises going heavier and heavier.

Any conclusion can be given, and but with his goal being to not get his abs used to an exercise, he could do anything.

P.S. For your three times a week, I would pick out twelve exercises, six with weight six without, and do one of each each [workout] day. Mix it up, pull it out of a hat if you need to, but do that and your body will learn and build muscle memory, but still be confused as hell.

absolutely, abs are made in the kitchen, so are everyother muscle but you do want some muscle too I only brought up the marathon rep style just to show that the old time bodybuilders did almost the opposite of what many do today and their waists were slender.

For me, I would do a superset of 15-25 reps each exercise then rest for a minute. But as some otehrs have stated too, I go for the burn and til the abs are exhausted. And abs, I consider the abs, obliques, intercoastals and lower back, it is all core and I try to think of it as such....I would use weighted at times but wouldnt exclusively use just weighted.

Just want to clarify what I said above.... yes, abs are made in the kitchen but I know some very veyr thin guys who weigh no more than 130 pounds, they are sticks and they have abs cuz they have no fat to speak of. I dont think That is the type of abs we are looking for. diet and working out have to work hand in hand..... I mean you want a defined chest or shoulders, it is also made in teh kitchen, just that the abs are the last place your diet fine tunes usually after it has already worked on teh rest of the bodyparts....

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Correct.





As I stated in a previous post, change ups only would occur with auxiliary exericses, not the staples.

"Planned Progression

I agree with some staple exercise you need some type of planned progression."

Length Of Stape Undulating Program

I agree with Vladimir M. Zatsiorsky (Science and Practice of Strength Training). Zatsiorsky undulating recommendation is three weeks.

I've used that three week cycle for over a decaded with great results. I've pushed the staple exercise for four weeks, dependent on how I felt.

Larry Scott, The First Mr Olympic

Scott changed his exercises every workout. That seemed to have worked well for him.

Auxiliary Exercise Rotatation

I see no problem with rotating the "disposable" auxiliary exercises every workout.



West Side Method

I agree with Louie Simmons on rotating auxiliary exercise, especilly for advanced lifters.

Charles Poliquin, Canadian Strength Coach

Poliquin has stated much the same.

Bench Press More Now
Dr Tom McLaughlin (PhD Exercise Physiology Biomechanics/Former Powerlifter)

McLaulin's book is a brilliant piece of worked based on science and empirical data.

Pole Vaulting For Reps

As McLaughlin points out, the best way to perfect a skill is to practice it with submaximal loads, about 85% or higher of your 1RM.

"Practice Doesn't Make Perfect. Perfect Practice Make Perfect"Vince Lombardi

That means the moment your technique breaks down in a movement, STOP. Continueing to perform it teaches you to perform it incorrectly.

McLaughlin, Simmons, Poliquin On Auxiliary Exercises

Here's where you build strength.

Staple Auxiliary Exercise

Use a Progressive Plan (three week or four). Longer time periods are unnecessary.

Disposable Auxiliary Exericses

Here when you can push one exercise to the limit and then dispose of it for a month or longer before going back to it.



I try not to make unreasonable statements...

Keep the exercise around as long as you feel it it producting results. Then dump it.

However, there is a productive quality in constant rotation auxiliary exercises, every week or every three weeks.

Example of Weekly Rotation

One of the things that I am now playing with is weekly rotation or Occlustion Training exercises.

The Occlusion Training exercises are at the very end of the program.

The Focus

The focus is on flooding the muscle with blood. As your probably familiar with, Occlusion Training appears to produce a hormonal growth effect.

Thus, the method not the movement is the key to producing this hormonal training effect.

The Irony Of Occlusion Training

Unfortunately, we strayed off the path of the post. However, while we're here...

When you look Occlusion Training, you realize that bodybuilders have used a form of this method for decades. Occlusion just provide a strange twist to an old method based on anecdotal data.

Another topic for another time.

Kenny Croxdale

I think we essentially agree here. I will bullet the key points:

• You need to implement planned progression.
• Switching all your exercises every workout makes for difficulty tracking progress.
• Accessory movement can be switched more frequently than your basic compound movements.
• Keep the accessory work around that you are confident is helping your primary lifts/goals.

I'm with the WS boys on abs, once every 4-5 sessions I like to switch exercises.

Originally Posted by fqqs

i have got pretty good developed abs already but i want to be better

i lift 3 days a week. after each workout (almost only compound exercises) i plan to do 1 ab exercise (3 sets, usually weighted). every workout = different ab exercise.

for example:

monday: haning leg raises 3x12
wednesday: weighted crunches 3x12
friday: decline crnuches 3xMax

2nd week:

monday: russian twist 3x12
wednesday: wieghetd bicycle crunches 3x12
friday: weighetd crunches 3x12


wthat do you think about that approach? i simply dont want my abs to get used to exercises. and 3-5 min for abs after each heavy weights workout seems reasonable

That routine sounds really good, im going to start using that

Originally Posted by LAM

great abs are made in the kitchen not in the gym....

Very true, 80% kitchen 20% gym

Nah nowhere near true, more like 50/50 at best. Only people with shite genetics say that.

All of you trying to quantify the actual contribution of training vs nutrition to ab visibility are ridiculous. Clearly though, it is easier to modify caloric intake, and therefore energy balance, via dietary modification.

not really....the entire RA is not clearly seen w/o having to flex unless the body fat is much lower than average. abdominal training has no measurable effect on energy expenditure during exercise. doesn't take much energy to move the spine

Originally Posted by LAM

not really....the entire RA is not clearly seen w/o having to flex unless the body fat is much lower than average. abdominal training has no measurable effect on energy expenditure during exercise. doesn't take much energy to move the spine

Well yes, the contribution of abdominal training specifically to body composition is minimal. The contribution of training in a more general sense is not. Good to see you posting still LAM, by the way.