Thread: Squatting ROM

what would the bench be used for and how would that protect your knees? Will you be in a rack? body weight squats are fine as far as I'm concerned...if one is concerned about possible issues.

Originally Posted by Merkaba

what would the bench be used for and how would that protect your knees? Will you be in a rack? body weight squats are fine as far as I'm concerned...if one is concerned about possible issues.

The bench is just laid out flat and im talkin a rack yeah not a smith machine the bench is just underneath so you dint go past 90 degree sorta range on the knees is you know what i mean? so ill squat till my arse hits the bench that lets me know im not going to far down and stressing the knees?

Going down doesn't stress the knees, partial squats do.

I've heard allot of opinions on this but I say you find what works for you and make small changes if you are going to make changes. We're all unique and unless you are lifting for a competition then it's on you find what works have someone who knows take a look at your form and again if you're going to change don't make big changes too fast, no need to make your injury worse.

Originally Posted by Merkaba

what would the bench be used for and how would that protect your knees? Will you be in a rack? body weight squats are fine as far as I'm concerned...if one is concerned about possible issues.

also not sure how bench will protect your knees

You can safely squat as deep as you want with no knee issues provided you follow two fairly simple rules:
1: your hamstrings should not touch your calves (ok, light touch is fine, but no pressure at all)
2: your toes must be pointing in the exact same direction as your knees move. Basically this means your feet and thighs will be exactly in line.

CAVEAT! These rules are for normal, healthy knees with no serious tendon problems. If you have tendon issues, you may want to avoid too much added weight or strain until the tendons are fully healed. The above guidelines are for protecting the cartilage in the joints only. Too much weight in *any* lift can damage tendons, so make sure you do your warmups and stretches before squatting.

Originally Posted by josefamomad

also not sure how bench will protect your knees

its not there to "protect" my knees as such its there to stop me going past 90 degrees putting less strain on my knees...

Originally Posted by jimm

Howdy guys,

I was just wondering whats your thoughts on squatting with a bench underneath you.. thing is i fucked my knees in a car crash a few years ago and really dont wanna fuck em again..

I know what you mean, we called them "box squats" in high school. I do them if I take a long break cause it does help my knees. For me I'm only 5'9" so on some benches I'm not quite at 90 degrees when my but touches. Now I only do it for a couple weeks just to get my lower body use to the stress. I'll build up the weight then once my knees feel ok I'll drop weight and do regular squats going as deep as I can. I don't have any significant knee injuries, but I do have arthritis so I kinda know how you feel. Imo I think you'll be fine doing box squats if you're at least getting to 90 degrees. Just be careful and make sure you're just touching the bench and not sitting on it.

Originally Posted by Halo

I've heard allot of opinions on this but I say you find what works for you and make small changes if you are going to make changes. We're all unique and unless you are lifting for a competition then it's on you find what works have someone who knows take a look at your form and again if you're going to change don't make big changes too fast, no need to make your injury worse.

No attack on you Halo, But I really hate it when people say "we're all different". It's been erking me more and more cause I hear it all the time. To me it's a cop out for not knowing what to do. Yea, we're all unique in things like how we respond to work, shape of muscles, etc. But either you know how to squat or you don't. Every person, barring a deformity or disease, has the same basic structure. And all of our muscles do the same thing. Now the response to that work, yes, is differen't for everyone. The work shouldn't really be. muscles do two things. Contract and relax.

My question asking was more of a joke to prove a point. The bench is not going to tell you anything, other than you hit the bench. Your form could still be jacked, and you won't learn how to squat. This goes back to the box squat and why 99% of people don't really know the purpose of a box squat. People see other people do it and then they do it.

If you're concerned about your knee's, that's even more of a reason to ditch the bench. lighten your weight or don't use weight at all. Putting a bar on your back is not necessary to do squats. If you're physically, or emotionally in your case, limited, then you might not need to do squats yet, or not weighted squats at least. If you can't reach bottom with no weight or extra light weight, and feel good about it and build from there, then don't do them. Do good deep work or don't do them.

By asking your question I think you really need to work on your squat form and get that shit damn near mastered. Nothing wrong with practicing with no weight because otherwise if you're not doing it right you're going to engram it in and it will be twice or thrice as hard to correct. Especially when tired.

I'm about 99 percent sure I'm going to be doing some e-books (at least)on this stuff....

Originally Posted by Merkaba

No attack on you Halo, But I really hate it when people say "we're all different". It's been erking me more and more cause I hear it all the time. To me it's a cop out for not knowing what to do. Yea, we're all unique in things like how we respond to work, shape of muscles, etc. But either you know how to squat or you don't. Every person, barring a deformity or disease, has the same basic structure. And all of our muscles do the same thing. Now the response to that work, yes, is differen't for everyone. The work shouldn't really be. muscles do two things. Contract and relax.

My question asking was more of a joke to prove a point. The bench is not going to tell you anything, other than you hit the bench. Your form could still be jacked, and you won't learn how to squat. This goes back to the box squat and why 99% of people don't really know the purpose of a box squat. People see other people do it and then they do it.

If you're concerned about your knee's, that's even more of a reason to ditch the bench. lighten your weight or don't use weight at all. Putting a bar on your back is not necessary to do squats. If you're physically, or emotionally in your case, limited, then you might not need to do squats yet, or not weighted squats at least. If you can't reach bottom with no weight or extra light weight, and feel good about it and build from there, then don't do them. Do good deep work or don't do them.

By asking your question I think you really need to work on your squat form and get that shit damn near mastered. Nothing wrong with practicing with no weight because otherwise if you're not doing it right you're going to engram it in and it will be twice or thrice as hard to correct. Especially when tired.

I'm about 99 percent sure I'm going to be doing some e-books (at least)on this stuff....

You hear "we're all different" alot because it's true, bro. The examples are all around us. Training-wise Jason Huh's reps do little to nothing to my muscles; I don't get a good pump from them, and I don't see much growth. But hell, Huh's physique speaks for itself, and obviously they work for HIM.
Nutrition-wise, eating fish the last 4-5 weeks of a contest prep is almost a neccesity for a few of my friends, but fish flattens me out, and doesn't do much of anything for me in the last weeks before a show, and chicken works for me like fish works for them.
So nutrition and training ALWAYS varies with person to person because no matter how structurally similar we are, we are immensly different in the sense that different training/nutrition affects us in different ways.
Play around with your squatting protocol, go 2-3 weeks squatting one way with a certain sngle/stance, and change it up. That way, once you explore the different methods, you can really hone in on what your legs respond to the most.

Once I started squatting with a wide stance, my knees have not bothered me. As far as depth, I only go to parallel. I squat in a rack and set the bars to just below parallel. Just my two cents on what works for me.

Originally Posted by Merkaba

No attack on you Halo, But I really hate it when people say "we're all different". It's been erking me more and more cause I hear it all the time. To me it's a cop out for not knowing what to do. Yea, we're all unique in things like how we respond to work, shape of muscles, etc. But either you know how to squat or you don't. Every person, barring a deformity or disease, has the same basic structure. And all of our muscles do the same thing. Now the response to that work, yes, is differen't for everyone. The work shouldn't really be. muscles do two things. Contract and relax.

My question asking was more of a joke to prove a point. The bench is not going to tell you anything, other than you hit the bench. Your form could still be jacked, and you won't learn how to squat. This goes back to the box squat and why 99% of people don't really know the purpose of a box squat. People see other people do it and then they do it.

If you're concerned about your knee's, that's even more of a reason to ditch the bench. lighten your weight or don't use weight at all. Putting a bar on your back is not necessary to do squats. If you're physically, or emotionally in your case, limited, then you might not need to do squats yet, or not weighted squats at least. If you can't reach bottom with no weight or extra light weight, and feel good about it and build from there, then don't do them. Do good deep work or don't do them.

By asking your question I think you really need to work on your squat form and get that shit damn near mastered. Nothing wrong with practicing with no weight because otherwise if you're not doing it right you're going to engram it in and it will be twice or thrice as hard to correct. Especially when tired.

I'm about 99 percent sure I'm going to be doing some e-books (at least)on this stuff....

Yeah i hear ya mate it pisses me off when i see people at my gym get on the squat rack put on a weight clearly too hevay for them and proceed to do barely even a partial squats.. then standing back and waiting for some one to come give them a mr o medal... i CAN AND DO go ass to the grass with my squats but just the last week a freind told me about using the bench said it might help me knees i was skeptical about it thats why i asked... ive had no problems with squating deep and my kneed thus far.. im just thinking about the future i dunno... in all honesty i should just SHUT UP AND SQUAT

Originally Posted by Noheawaiian

You hear "we're all different" alot because it's true, bro. The examples are all around us. Training-wise Jason Huh's reps do little to nothing to my muscles; I don't get a good pump from them, and I don't see much growth. But hell, Huh's physique speaks for itself, and obviously they work for HIM.
Nutrition-wise, eating fish the last 4-5 weeks of a contest prep is almost a neccesity for a few of my friends, but fish flattens me out, and doesn't do much of anything for me in the last weeks before a show, and chicken works for me like fish works for them.
So nutrition and training ALWAYS varies with person to person because no matter how structurally similar we are, we are immensly different in the sense that different training/nutrition affects us in different ways.
Play around with your squatting protocol, go 2-3 weeks squatting one way with a certain sngle/stance, and change it up. That way, once you explore the different methods, you can really hone in on what your legs respond to the most.

I hear ya bro its all trail and error, cheers

Originally Posted by Testoman98

I know what you mean, we called them "box squats" in high school. I do them if I take a long break cause it does help my knees. For me I'm only 5'9" so on some benches I'm not quite at 90 degrees when my but touches. Now I only do it for a couple weeks just to get my lower body use to the stress. I'll build up the weight then once my knees feel ok I'll drop weight and do regular squats going as deep as I can. I don't have any significant knee injuries, but I do have arthritis so I kinda know how you feel. Imo I think you'll be fine doing box squats if you're at least getting to 90 degrees. Just be careful and make sure you're just touching the bench and not sitting on it.

I use box squats when things aren't feeling right for a regular squat (occasional tweaky knees or lower back) or if I want to feed my ego and go higher weight. THey're great for working your form and a nice option to have if you need it.

Originally Posted by sassy69

I use box squats when things aren't feeling right for a regular squat (occasional tweaky knees or lower back) or if I want to feed my ego and go higher weight. THey're great for working your form and a nice option to have if you need it.

Squats never feel right to me lol. Just like you said its a nice option to fall back on when needed. Its always amazed me though how much more I can box squat. I've never been an "ass to the floor" kind of guy but just those few inches from slightly above 90 degrees to just below is huge.

A person really proves themselves on leg day.....Damned if you do
Damned if you don't....or can't....it will come to you!

Originally Posted by Noheawaiian

You hear "we're all different" alot because it's true, bro. The examples are all around us. Training-wise Jason Huh's reps do little to nothing to my muscles; I don't get a good pump from them, and I don't see much growth. But hell, Huh's physique speaks for itself, and obviously they work for HIM.
Nutrition-wise, eating fish the last 4-5 weeks of a contest prep is almost a neccesity for a few of my friends, but fish flattens me out, and doesn't do much of anything for me in the last weeks before a show, and chicken works for me like fish works for them.
So nutrition and training ALWAYS varies with person to person because no matter how structurally similar we are, we are immensly different in the sense that different training/nutrition affects us in different ways.
Play around with your squatting protocol, go 2-3 weeks squatting one way with a certain sngle/stance, and change it up. That way, once you explore the different methods, you can really hone in on what your legs respond to the most.

I can see what you're talking about. If you look at my post I addressed these sorts of things. My point is, is your body doing the same motion that Huh is doing? If he's doing squats, to repeat, you're generally doing the same thing as anyone else squatting. The response to that work IS different for everyone. My point is that I wouldn't tell someone to do quarter squats,kipping pullups, or rounded back deadlifts or reverse wide grip bench because we're all different and we need to "find ourselves" that sort of thing is what I'm getting at.

Originally Posted by jimm

Yeah i hear ya mate it pisses me off when i see people at my gym get on the squat rack put on a weight clearly too hevay for them and proceed to do barely even a partial squats.. then standing back and waiting for some one to come give them a mr o medal... i CAN AND DO go ass to the grass with my squats but just the last week a freind told me about using the bench said it might help me knees i was skeptical about it thats why i asked... ive had no problems with squating deep and my kneed thus far.. im just thinking about the future i dunno... in all honesty i should just SHUT UP AND SQUAT

Well yea there's a grey area I guess with all lifts...but most stuff I see and hear is out of line or understanding. Like a wider stance or high bar vs low bar...yea. All you can do is do the best at what you're doing...If you know good form, then the bench will not matter, you can use it. But see my thing is someone saying it might help your knees. How? This person is probably from the school of "below parallel hurts your knees" I can almost guarantee. Ya know. But you do ATG and you're ok with it. The only thing I see with ATG squats is people bouncing at the bottom in order to keep the reps high which means that the friction of the knee structure is stopping your movement more, not the muscle. I would rather do two slow full tension squats than 6 bouncing knee squats. It's just not a good idea to me...risky. I'm 250 and I didn't go over 315 yesterday because I wasn't feeling it. I rarely go over 405 anyways. So just keep your shit tight and be careful. If you know good form, sure play around with your parameters as long as you don't lose that good and rare thing....quality.

Squatting Olympic style and simply touching a bench isn't going to do much for you. Box squatting powerlifter style with a low bar position on the back does reduce the torque you have to generate at the knee joint. However, you actually have to alter your squat technique. In fact, a box isn't even necessary in order to perform with such a technique. Powerlifters recommend box squats because it is the easiest way to actually teach that type of squatting technique.

Originally Posted by jimm

Howdy guys,

I was just wondering whats your thoughts on squatting with a bench underneath you.. thing is i fucked my knees in a car crash a few years ago and really dont wanna fuck em again..

This can be very dangerous! You can hurt your back by compresing your spin if you accedently sit down to hard.

Originally Posted by ezsway

Once I started squatting with a wide stance, my knees have not bothered me. As far as depth, I only go to parallel. I squat in a rack and set the bars to just below parallel. Just my two cents on what works for me.

Me too.
So together we have contributed four cents.

great way to mess up your back!! do them right or dont do them.

Originally Posted by getbig808

This can be very dangerous! You can hurt your back by compressing your spine if you accidentally sit down too hard.

Any exercise can be dangerous if you use too much weight and employ poor form (or fall over with a barbell in your hands). As long as he uses an appropriate amount of weight and performs his reps with reasonable form, I doubt box squats would be harmful.

Only time I ever had knee pain was while stopping myself while squatting and or using rough reps (dropping too fast). When I control the negative and reverse the ROM when I stop going down, the knees don't bother me at all.