Thread: All Natural Body Building Help?

Stats?
Age?
Weight?
Height?
Body Fat?
Goal: Bulk w/ minimal fat

Training Routine?

Originally Posted by justhav2p

Stats?
Age?
Weight?
Height?
Body Fat?
Goal: Bulk w/ minimal fat

Training Routine?

24
210lbs
6'0
Body fat is about 21% according to a scan I had.

Right now my training is a 3 day routine.

Tuesday - Back biceps
Thursday - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
Saturday - Legs

My goal is mainly size.... so I can training in the 8-12 rep range. I do about 9 sets per large body part. And 6 sets for the others since they get indirect training from the compound exercises on the larger body parts.

Also, I do squats weekly. And I have been training on and off for about 5-6 years, but often get side lined by injuries. I just took a 4 month lay off from the gym due to a knee injury. In that lay off, I usually lose a significant amount of muscle. So I'm kind of yo-yoing right now and I guess my goal is to try to figure out how to avoid injuries, because I think the reasons I keep getting injured is due to over training certain muscles. For example my lower back.

At 21% bf, your immediate focus should be cutting.

Injuries are mostly brought on by lack of training knowledge. How do you feel your form holds up on certain lifts? Over training is not as common as you might think and I doubt it was the cause of all your injuries. Lower back injuries are caused by lifting with incorrect form.

Originally Posted by Cork

At 21% bf, your immediate focus should be cutting.

Injuries are mostly brought on by lack of training knowledge. How do you feel your form holds up on certain lifts? Over training is not as common as you might think and I doubt it was the cause of all your injuries. Lower back injuries are caused by lifting with incorrect form.

The problem with the 21%, is that most people under estimate their body fat percentage. I actually had a DXA scan done.
http://bodycomp.ca/scanner.html which is much more accurate than calipers. People often say I am about 12-15% body fat, because of the way my body is proportioned. Even so called experts mistaken me for lower number of body fat. But if I use convention methods like calipers, it says I am much lower than I actually am.


I feel my form is not bad. But over training causes bad form.
As far as I know, leg press and leg extensions are bad for the knees, something I have done lots of.

Anyways, back to routines. I have read on certain all natural forums that so called "experts" are saying natural body builders should train each muscle 2 times per week. Only one time per week is for steroids users, in HIS opinion. Just so much controversy which advice, it's upsetting.

Start training consistently and you'll find your niche. I had followed 531 for 2 years and made phenomenal strength and hypertrophy gains. The split revolved around 2 upper days a week and 2 lower days a week. These days I'm cutting my volume a little and only lifting 3 days a week. Sometimes it's upper body twice a week, sometimes it's lower body twice a week.

I don't think you should be chalking up injuries to over training so easily. I will argue you if you persist, but just know that there is no such thing as over training, only staleness, under eating, and under sleeping.

Fatigue causes breakdown in lifting form. Most experienced lifters will stop a lift once fatigue sets in and form slips. You should not be lifting so far past your point of fatigue.

If you are trained (meaning you're not a newb), you cannot expect to gain more than 2-5lbs per year depending on genetics. The only way to gain this lean mass is to cycle calories. Bulk for 12 weeks, cut for 12 weeks. There are natural supps that will aid you while you cut in order to keep most of the muscle built, this is probably the most important time to use natty supps.

Do mainly the big 5 exercises. Bench, Deads, BB row, squat and overhead press.

5X5 routine while you bulk
4X8 when you cut

Do 5/3/1, then repeat above...

I really don't think you can do much else. There is no replacement for the core 5, nothing else will build muscle as well.

Just to confirm, are the people that are giving me advice experienced in natural gains?
Because it doesn't make sense taking advice from juicers, because they simply don't understand natural gains.

Saying that there is no such thing as over training only applies to people on steroids.

Originally Posted by allnaturalkid87

Hi everyone,

I did a search on the forum and couldn't find many topics about natural body building.

For somebody that refuses to take any drugs whatsoever, what are some RULES of natural body building?

A few that I gather is, diet is ultra important.

It seems like diet is 60%
Rest is 20%
Training is 20%

Either way, I am worried about over training because I hit plateaus quite often and I'm wondering about some tips that could make a big difference for me.

Currently my goal is bulking. I need to add some size, and while I want to minimize fat gain, I am not totally against it.

There is so much debate over low reps, medium reps, high reps, etc...

hahaha diet is 100%, rest is 100%, and training is 100%..what is this 20% bullshit..such a fucking joke!!!! You really think you can put 20 fucking % into your workouts and get big!?!? GOOD JOKE!!

No debate in reps. your not going to get massive sticking about 15+ reps. Keep your reps between 6-12 and 1-5...strength and size.. obviously warm up with a good amount of reps. hypertrophy is 6-12 reps(30-90sec. rest), strength is 1-5 reps(2-5min rest) and endurance is 12+ reps (<30sec rest)... no debate. proven over research. And as far as diet, you could spend less than 30 seconds in the search box and find a great article on "clean bulking diet".

Originally Posted by stfuandliftbtch

hahaha diet is 100%, rest is 100%, and training is 100%..what is this 20% bullshit..such a fucking joke!!!! You really think you can put 20 fucking % into your workouts and get big!?!? GOOD JOKE!!

No debate in reps. your not going to get massive sticking about 15+ reps. Keep your reps between 6-12 and 1-5...strength and size.. obviously warm up with a good amount of reps. hypertrophy is 6-12 reps(30-90sec. rest), strength is 1-5 reps(2-5min rest) and endurance is 12+ reps (<30sec rest)... no debate. proven over research. And as far as diet, you could spend less than 30 seconds in the search box and find a great article on "clean bulking diet".

Yeah um, I know your history. You're a big time juicer.
You don't know what you're talking about either.

I'm not saying I'm putting 20% effort into my workouts, I'm trying to emphasize the importance of diet, especially when NATURAL. But think about this... let's say I work out 2 hours a day, 6 days a week but I barely eat anything. Or I just eat twinkies.... I'm not going to gain much muscle am I? Lifting is pointless without a proper diet to back it up. I never asked for diet advice by the way... I got my diet down.

And if I am working my ass off, but only sleeping 4 hours per night, it's going to be super hard to recuperate from my workouts UNLESS I am on mad juice. Jeez.... you chemical heads sometimes really get under my skin.

-------------

I am asking for TIPS that set apart naturals from juicers. I am not asking how to get started with the gym, I have 6 years of lifting experience. Please somebody who is all-natural tell me what has made a difference to them.

Check out the diet section of this forum. Look for BUILT-shoe will point you in the right direction, among many others. Then look at the training section, and post your entire training regimen. Lots of people around here train naturally.

Originally Posted by allnaturalkid87

Yeah um, I know your history. You're a big time juicer.
You don't know what you're talking about either.

I'm not saying I'm putting 20% effort into my workouts, I'm trying to emphasize the importance of diet, especially when NATURAL. But think about this... let's say I work out 2 hours a day, 6 days a week but I barely eat anything. Or I just eat twinkies.... I'm not going to gain much muscle am I? Lifting is pointless without a proper diet to back it up. I never asked for diet advice by the way... I got my diet down.

And if I am working my ass off, but only sleeping 4 hours per night, it's going to be super hard to recuperate from my workouts UNLESS I am on mad juice. Jeez.... you chemical heads sometimes really get under my skin.

-------------

I am asking for TIPS that set apart naturals from juicers. I am not asking how to get started with the gym, I have 6 years of lifting experience. Please somebody who is all-natural tell me what has made a difference to them.

I don't know what i am talking about? HAHA! You sound like a fucking retard. It is all 100%..get the fuck over that fact you natural pussy ass piece of shit. I know EXACTLY what im talking about and my knowledge is so high above your 120lb frame that take shits smarter than you.

2 hours a day 6 days a week with just twinkles. YES! your gains will sucks. Everything you said could be visa versa. you could eat perfect and only train once a month. aint gunna gain shit.

6 years of lifting experience and you are asking how to clean bulk!?! Get the FUCK out of here bitch! I'll eat you and your mom for breakfast..


p.s. The second paragraph is actual research from the National Strength and Conditioning Association Text Book which i just finished reading. It is one of the top certifications for personal training and has some of the best research and information out there. Maybe you should call them, tell them that they are wrong and that you wish to revise is and cut out that entire section. Now, who the fuck doesn't know what they are talking about!?

^^^^ +1

You cannot discount someones advice simply because they are juicing. There are naturals and non naturals alike who train like idiots.

OP, go find me pure scientific evidence that is not based on extreme conditions that shows over training exists. Most instances where over training can truly be seen is military special forces training, for example if you're trying to join the SEALs. You, training in the gym, you aren't going to over train unless you sleep and eat poorly.

You want tips on how to grow? The first step is going to be to get over yourself and realize that you aren't training worth a shit if you blame every time you get tired on over training. Push your body AND your mind. Old time strongmen could put 300lbs overhead with 1 hand by the time they were 30 years old. You think you're training hard?

And for the record, I compete in the OCB which is a drug tested federation. I am completely natural but you won't see me getting a complex and pretending I'm better than anyone else trying to give out training advice.

If you think you're overtraining add an extra meal a day and two more hours sleep a night. I promise that tired feeling will go away!

Originally Posted by allnaturalkid87

Hi everyone,

I did a search on the forum and couldn't find many topics about natural body building.

For somebody that refuses to take any drugs whatsoever, what are some RULES of natural body building?

A few that I gather is, diet is ultra important.

It seems like diet is 60%
Rest is 20%
Training is 20%

Either way, I am worried about over training because I hit plateaus quite often and I'm wondering about some tips that could make a big difference for me.

Currently my goal is bulking. I need to add some size, and while I want to minimize fat gain, I am not totally against it.

There is so much debate over low reps, medium reps, high reps, etc...

the way you are training is very unlikely you are going to overtrain. easy on the food i don't think you need to bulk at all , bulking naturally often leads to getting fat
just go on a 5 days routine for a while no problem, include some cardio , loose the excess fat you will look bigger. vary your workout.
your reps range should be 8-12 and you can go 1-5 from time to time, use supersets with 6/6 reps

Gazhole & Merkaba are two highly accomplished natural body builders. I'd seek them out for their advice.

There, who says you can't get good advice from someone "ON"? LOL

Originally Posted by stfuandliftbtch

I don't know what i am talking about? HAHA! You sound like a fucking retard. It is all 100%..get the fuck over that fact you natural pussy ass piece of shit. I know EXACTLY what im talking about and my knowledge is so high above your 120lb frame that take shits smarter than you.

2 hours a day 6 days a week with just twinkles. YES! your gains will sucks. Everything you said could be visa versa. you could eat perfect and only train once a month. aint gunna gain shit.

6 years of lifting experience and you are asking how to clean bulk!?! Get the FUCK out of here bitch! I'll eat you and your mom for breakfast..


p.s. The second paragraph is actual research from the National Strength and Conditioning Association Text Book which i just finished reading. It is one of the top certifications for personal training and has some of the best research and information out there. Maybe you should call them, tell them that they are wrong and that you wish to revise is and cut out that entire section. Now, who the fuck doesn't know what they are talking about!?

This is coming from somebody who started roiding at 18 ? or maybe even younger? Wtf do you know about natural training? You aint been natural from the start. And I'm the pussy? You have NO clue how much harder it is to be natural, only able to gain like 7-10 pounds per year of muscle versus 7-10 pounds in 1-2 months. And I'm not even close to 120 pounds buddy.

Do you got legs like mine?



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