Thread: stretching hamstrings between deadlift sets?

for strength or size? for size yes not for strength.

light streching (warm ups) before for strength. then all the streching after w/ massage.

Originally Posted by Usealittle

for strength or size? for size yes not for strength.

light streching (warm ups) before for strength. then all the streching after w/ massage.

x2

Originally Posted by fqqs

stretching hamstrings between deadlift sets? do you think it is a good idea? can it be harmful?

I would say that stretching between sets is counterproductive even with bodybuilding exercises and especially with strength training. Light dynamic stretch with a warmup and static stretching for a longer period after. With bbing exercises a think the length of static stretching should be sustained for longer periods to facilitate fascial pliability.

Stretching before or during will lower your performance for the lifts you're doing. Lots of studies on the subject. Stretch after you lift, not before or during.

i don't think stretching before, or during exercise will affect anything , some say it does and some say it does not ....the important is proper warm up before lifting and before stretching, stretching on cold is not good , stretching should be done after warm up.
i warm up , stretch a little with no excessive stretches while working out just to improve blood circulation and stretch after work out.

Originally Posted by bjg

i don't think stretching before, or during exercise will affect anything , some say it does and some say it does not ....the important is proper warm up before lifting and before stretching, stretching on cold is not good , stretching should be done after warm up.
i warm up , stretch a little with no excessive stretches while working out just to improve blood circulation and stretch after work out.

There are actual scientific studies on this matter that conclude it does affect performance.

Originally Posted by bjg

i don't think stretching before, or during exercise will affect anything , some say it does and some say it does not ....the important is proper warm up before lifting and before stretching, stretching on cold is not good , stretching should be done after warm up.
i warm up , stretch a little with no excessive stretches while working out just to improve blood circulation and stretch after work out.

Those who say it doesn't are ignoring an ever-growing body of research to support the opposite contention: static stretching reduces power output. Don't do it before or during a workout if you care about performing. Unless, of course, you are talking about the antagonist muscle groups. Reducing activity in antagonist muscle groups might theoretically improve performance because of the potential to reduce reciprocal inhibition.

as far as performance the difference is totally insignificant lets say 1% ..so if you are in a power lifting competition where you have only one lift and you need that extra pound ..then i would consider the issue, but for bodybuilding purposes where you are going through reps it can actually be beneficial ...
as from experience i don't see any difference.
in track and field competitions , sprinters warm up and stretch before the race, so it should have some benefits like letting the blood flow better in the targeted areas, it could also reduce possibility of injury..if done after proper warm up, it can help the muscle relax between sets and avoid cramping

Originally Posted by bjg

as far as performance the difference is totally insignificant lets say 1% ..so if you are in a power lifting competition where you have only one lift and you need that extra pound ..then i would consider the issue, but for bodybuilding purposes where you are going through reps it can actually be beneficial ...
as from experience i don't see any difference.
in track and field competitions , sprinters warm up and stretch before the race, so it should have some benefits like letting the blood flow better in the targeted areas, it could also reduce possibility of injury..if done after proper warm up, it can help the muscle relax between sets and avoid cramping

When you talk of track and field competitions are you speaking of static or dynamic stretching? Most competitors use dynamic stretching methods before training and longer static stretching sessions afterward. From all the literature I've read I agree with cowpimp on his assertions.

litterature changes with years , long ago static stretching was encouraged, now it is not anymore, dynamic stretching is encouraged...anyways, when i say stretching i don't mean extreme stretching, mild to moderate stretching improves blood flow and relaxes you, it makes me feel good , the effect of stretching vs non stretching on performance cannot be measured practically , it is all a point of view, other variables affect lifting performance like your mental state, the food you ate before, your test level at the time etc...many many variables so there is no way you can isolate the effect of stretching vs non stretching......so i stick with mild stretching after warming up and few sets with light weight.

Negligible? 1%? bjg, you need to get out and read more:
Acute effects of static stretching on peak torque in women. - Abstract - UK PubMed Central

Acute Muscle Stretching Inhibits Muscle Strength Endurance P... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

Loads of other studies like them, and all show significant decreases in peak strength and/or reps after static stretching.

these studies themselves stated that the results are not conclusive + they are talking about ACUTE stretching (like real stretching sessions) of course when you over stretch the muscle it will not respond as well right afterwards .....no need a study to know that ..basic common sense.
When i said stretching i said mild that means regular stretching you do like 10 secs of regular mild stretching and this is very beneficial.

Originally Posted by bjg

these studies themselves stated that the results are not conclusive + they are talking about ACUTE stretching (like real stretching sessions) of course when you over stretch the muscle it will not respond as well right afterwards .....no need a study to know that ..basic common sense.
When i said stretching i said mild that means regular stretching you do like 10 secs of regular mild stretching and this is very beneficial.

How is it beneficial? What do it do for you? 10 seconds of static stretching doesn't really do anything. It's not long enough to get the benefits afforded by static stretching.

well repetitive stretching of 10-15 secs helps me a lot after warm up, gets the blood flowing well, gives you some info on the state of your muscle if there is any tightness etc..
you don't need to rip your muscles to stretch.
And here is a quiz for all of you see if you can answer it..you can ask all the doctors you want ..
the question is:
Why do you still feel some slight pain after you injure your muscle or tendon even for a long time after it has COMPLETELY healed ?. (example rotator cuff)
you ask and search anything you want..and i'll give you my answer and you see which one makes more sense.

Originally Posted by bjg

well repetitive stretching of 10-15 secs helps me a lot after warm up, gets the blood flowing well, gives you some info on the state of your muscle if there is any tightness etc..
you don't need to rip your muscles to stretch.
And here is a quiz for all of you see if you can answer it..you can ask all the doctors you want ..
the question is:
Why do you still feel some slight pain after you injure your muscle or tendon even for a long time after it has COMPLETELY healed ?. (example rotator cuff)
you ask and search anything you want..and i'll give you my answer and you see which one makes more sense.

You can achieve all the benefits you suggest through a dynamic warm-up. There is no evidence I have come across to suggest that a dynamic warm-up potentially has the same negative effects as static stretching. With that said, static stretching still has it's place post-workout, or in the case of a very hypertonic muscle.

There is not one right answer to your question. However, in some cases it is purely psychological, and there isn't a physiological mechanism at all. Pain is a construct of the mind, just like any other experience we have. You can experience pain in the absence of an actual problem, if your body perceives it as a means of preventing an actual injury.

Additionally, movement dysfunction typically follows injury. Your body alters motor patterns to avoid further damaging the already injured tissue while you are recovering. There is no magic reset switch to restore normal movement patterns once you have recovered. Therefore, these dysfunctional movement patterns can sometimes stick around post injury. Over time, this movement dysfunction can cause a cascade of problems that cause other soft tissue injuries.

Furthermore, there is no proof of when someone has "fully healed." A lot of people think their tissues have healed even when they haven't. Suppose they have healed; even assuming a full recovery, scar tissue buildup can also create issues with movement dysfunction and the length tension relationship which can lead to pain.

There is no one answer, but these are certainly possibilities.

ok cowpimp all what you said is great but here is something (a biomedical engineering explanation since i am a prof after all):
when you injure your tendon and heal completely , the injury site gets slightly thicker due to buildup of tissue sort of like if you cut your skin. Now as you workout , your tendon stretches and pulls, however the injury site and the rest of the tendon have different elasticity coefficient and will stretch differently ..the injury site is actually stiffer and this will create a pulling sensation on the injury site..it is this difference in elasticity that the brain detects and translates it into pain. it will take a long time before the tendon becomes all homogeneous.
sort of if you have an elastic band where in some place it is thicker than the rest, as you pull on it it will create some stress near the part that is thicker, the tension is not all distributed uniformly if you want.

Originally Posted by bjg

ok cowpimp all what you said is great but here is something (a biomedical engineering explanation since i am a prof after all):
when you injure your tendon and heal completely , the injury site gets slightly thicker due to buildup of tissue sort of like if you cut your skin. Now as you workout , your tendon stretches and pulls, however the injury site and the rest of the tendon have different elasticity coefficient and will stretch differently ..the injury site is actually stiffer and this will create a pulling sensation on the injury site..it is this difference in elasticity that the brain detects and translates it into pain. it will take a long time before the tendon becomes all homogeneous.
sort of if you have an elastic band where in some place it is thicker than the rest, as you pull on it it will create some stress near the part that is thicker, the tension is not all distributed uniformly if you want.

Fibrous scar tissue and fascial adhesions, I get it. Are you quite sure static stretching eliminates these things? Isn't soft tissue manipulation better in such a situation? What about in situations where a person hasn't been injured? You can't use an unhealthy individual as a model for what a healthy individual should do in all situations.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Fibrous scar tissue and fascial adhesions, I get it. Are you quite sure static stretching eliminates these things? Isn't soft tissue manipulation better in such a situation? What about in situations where a person hasn't been injured? You can't use an unhealthy individual as a model for what a healthy individual should do in all situations.

static stretching should be mild as i said....no not really sure about it , it just helps me ......some old school physiotherapists say it does and some say it does not ....but i definitely do not recommend hard stretching till after working out and still i think hard static stretching is not beneficial. After work out moderate and progressive stretching is good

Originally Posted by ThreeGigs

Stretching before or during will lower your performance for the lifts you're doing. Lots of studies on the subject. Stretch after you lift, not before or during.

Thats what I was taught as a teenager, and have continued to do so thhroughout the years....

static stretching before during or after is a waste of time unless you are someone who has asymmetry in major muscle groups and knows this because you have had muscle testing done by a professional. Before any workout you should begin with some type of neural activation for the region of you body you are going to be using. After a workout your best option is foam rolling(also before you warm up foam rolling if you have the time) This is standard with any professional/collegiate strength training program .

You can achieve all the benefits you suggest through a dynamic warm-up. There is no evidence I have come across to suggest that a dynamic warm-up potentially has the same negative effects as static stretching. With that said, static stretching still has it's place post-workout, or in the case of a very hypertonic muscle.