Another Squat Question...

Monolith · 02-27-2003, 11:18 AM

I started doing freeweight squats for the first time last week. Obviously i was pretty frickin weak because my stabilizer muscles were nill.

Question is... how long until the stabilizers "catch up"? Does it only take a week or two?

Scotty the Body · 02-27-2003, 11:26 AM

Its tough for us to answer that one, it takes some time to get the proper form down, once you get more comfortable, the weight should start to go up.

Yanick · 02-27-2003, 01:32 PM

You were not weak because your stabilizers are weak (well that maybe one factor).

Whenever you start a new movement your nervous system has to adapt to such a movement. Before that even happens, you have intra and inter muscular coordination increasing (the various muscles involved 'learn' what they need to do to get that weight up, and even within the muscle itself, the myofibrils et al 'learn' also). After that happends (which can take a few weeks), your CNS becomes more efficient at that movement, this also lasts a few weeks. During that time, you should be able to increase weight pretty quickly.

So its not really the stabilizers that you need to worry about, its also your CNS.

Having said all that mumbo jumbo, you can't really do anything to speed up this process so just keep squatting and watch your form. The weight will come with time.

**P-funk** · 02-27-2003, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Whenever you start a new movement your nervous system has to adapt to such a movement. Before that even happens, you have intra and inter muscular coordination increasing (the various muscles involved 'learn' what they need to do to get that weight up, and even within the muscle itself, the myofibrils et al 'learn' also). After that happends (which can take a few weeks), your CNS becomes more efficient at that movement, this also lasts a few weeks. During that time, you should be able to increase weight pretty quickly.

This is also the reason why when you first start lifting weights within the first 4-6 weeks your lifts, like your bench press, can go up so quickly. Some people think that they are gaining strength (which they are to an extent)but a lot of it is coming from the fact that you CNS is learning adapt to certain excersises.

Freeman · 02-27-2003, 04:59 PM

Rather than start a new thread, I'll ask this in here:

How wide of a stance do you guys take? I usually go a little wider than shoulder width. However, I see all the pro-BBs using fairly narrow stances, roughly 9 inches apart at the heels. I have never tried this and I'm almost afraid to try! Should I worry about getting a lot strong b4 trying this more narrow stance? I see pics of Ronnie squatting upwards of 600lbs with this stance!!

Scotty the Body · 02-27-2003, 05:01 PM

I use a slightly more narrow than shoulder width, I want more of the weight going to my quads not my hams an glutes.

Freeman · 02-27-2003, 05:05 PM

arg! hehe, I dread these! I know my squat numbers will go way down!

Scotty the Body · 02-27-2003, 05:10 PM

Nothing wrong with your stance Freeman, just depends what you want out of them.

Freeman · 02-27-2003, 05:38 PM

Yeah, I want strength right now...

marshal959 · 02-27-2003, 06:11 PM

i'm gonna do the same thing and ask a diff. question, but still pertaining to squats. I have literally no meniscus cartilage in my right knee, so i've always been told not to squat and had a hard time with it, but I've never seen any way to get sick legs without doing squats, I do everything but them. Any sugg's.

marshal959 · 02-27-2003, 06:12 PM

freeman-----I agree with scotty, it depends on what part of your leg you want to focus on, so try alternating stances- thats where the real fun is.

Scotty the Body · 02-27-2003, 07:32 PM

Some people think Hack squat puts less stress on the knees, I find the exact opposite.

They may be an alternative for you Theo Marshal

marshal959 · 02-27-2003, 07:49 PM

hack squats? holding bar in front?

Scotty the Body · 02-27-2003, 07:52 PM

No, a hack squat machine although doing front squats will hit the quads better using less weight, may also be easier on the knee if your using less weight.

Yanick · 02-27-2003, 08:08 PM

Marshal,

A little food for thought: Squat Analysis

marshal959 · 02-27-2003, 08:12 PM

Wow, thanks a lot! That was really cool of you.

w8lifter · 02-27-2003, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scotty the Body
Some people think Hack squat puts less stress on the knees, I find the exact opposite.

Me too....I wouldn't recommend them for anyone w/ knee problems.

Freeman · 02-28-2003, 05:57 AM

Have you ever used a hack machine but backwards? like, you put your stomach on it and put your feet near the sides, on the balls of your feet...feet pointing out a little bit, so you squat down like a frog? it really kills your hams/glutes.

Monolith · 02-28-2003, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by freeman1504
Have you ever used a hack machine but backwards? like, you put your stomach on it and put your feet near the sides, on the balls of your feet...feet pointing out a little bit, so you squat down like a frog? it really kills your hams/glutes.

err... isnt that how you're supposed to do hack squats? except facing the normal way?

Freeman · 02-28-2003, 11:30 AM

yeah, but this way really hits it in different spots..
like more towards the outside of your legs I think..

Duncan · 02-28-2003, 12:29 PM

Alot of people totally neglect some movements for their legs because they feel it will further a so-called injury they have. The truth of the matter is, if a movement does not doesn't hurt when you do it or shortly after, you can feel free to continue the movement, gradually increasing the weight week to week in order to recondition the muscle. Your body will tell you when you are causing damage to it. Endorphins or not, your body can tell and so can you. I see people every day who come in and say that they have to avoid this and that because their doctor said so. I once trained a surgeon who squatted like a retard and could not give me isolation exercises for each of the 3 heads of the shoulder. My point is, you wouldn't go to a gynecologist and ask about tooth decay so, if you are going to seek exercise advice, go to an exercise physiologist.

**Prince** · 02-28-2003, 12:36 PM

Hack Squats are great they put a lot of stress directly on the quads, however they also put a lot of stress on the knees. I do not recommend going very heavy on them, instead use moderate weight with slow controlled reps, and make you go down to a 90 degree angle (I like to go a bit deeper, just past 90).

Freeman · 02-28-2003, 12:50 PM

how deep do you go with regular squats?

**Prince** · 02-28-2003, 12:59 PM

I go just a bit (few inches) below parallel, it helps to incorporate more hams and glutes.

marshal959 · 02-28-2003, 03:52 PM

afternoon! I did hack squats last night and they were awesome, I had the best leg day ever! I did about 8 sets then extensions then single leg curls. Very sore today. Not too much pain either.

02-27-2003, 11:18 AM	#1
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Another Squat Question... I started doing freeweight squats for the first time last week. Obviously i was pretty frickin weak because my stabilizer muscles were nill. Question is... how long until the stabilizers "catch up"? Does it only take a week or two?

02-27-2003, 11:26 AM	#2
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	Its tough for us to answer that one, it takes some time to get the proper form down, once you get more comfortable, the weight should start to go up.
	Cool

02-27-2003, 01:32 PM	#3
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	You were not weak because your stabilizers are weak (well that maybe one factor). Whenever you start a new movement your nervous system has to adapt to such a movement. Before that even happens, you have intra and inter muscular coordination increasing (the various muscles involved 'learn' what they need to do to get that weight up, and even within the muscle itself, the myofibrils et al 'learn' also). After that happends (which can take a few weeks), your CNS becomes more efficient at that movement, this also lasts a few weeks. During that time, you should be able to increase weight pretty quickly. So its not really the stabilizers that you need to worry about, its also your CNS. Having said all that mumbo jumbo, you can't really do anything to speed up this process so just keep squatting and watch your form. The weight will come with time.
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	"...we have to remember that training is a complicated dance of stimuli and response. Our goal is to understand how to manipulate the stimuli in order to evoke the responses we desire." -Nathan J. Polenchek

02-27-2003, 04:59 PM	#5
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	Rather than start a new thread, I'll ask this in here: How wide of a stance do you guys take? I usually go a little wider than shoulder width. However, I see all the pro-BBs using fairly narrow stances, roughly 9 inches apart at the heels. I have never tried this and I'm almost afraid to try! Should I worry about getting a lot strong b4 trying this more narrow stance? I see pics of Ronnie squatting upwards of 600lbs with this stance!!
	www.kingsburymusic.net

02-27-2003, 05:01 PM	#6
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	I use a slightly more narrow than shoulder width, I want more of the weight going to my quads not my hams an glutes.
	Cool

02-27-2003, 05:05 PM	#7
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	arg! hehe, I dread these! I know my squat numbers will go way down!
	www.kingsburymusic.net

02-27-2003, 05:10 PM	#8
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	Nothing wrong with your stance Freeman, just depends what you want out of them.
	Cool

02-27-2003, 05:38 PM	#9
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	Yeah, I want strength right now...
	www.kingsburymusic.net

02-27-2003, 06:11 PM	#10
marshal959 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: washington state Posts: 78	i'm gonna do the same thing and ask a diff. question, but still pertaining to squats. I have literally no meniscus cartilage in my right knee, so i've always been told not to squat and had a hard time with it, but I've never seen any way to get sick legs without doing squats, I do everything but them. Any sugg's.
	if it dont hurt, it didnt work

02-27-2003, 06:12 PM	#11
marshal959 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: washington state Posts: 78	freeman-----I agree with scotty, it depends on what part of your leg you want to focus on, so try alternating stances- thats where the real fun is.
	if it dont hurt, it didnt work

02-27-2003, 07:32 PM	#12
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	Some people think Hack squat puts less stress on the knees, I find the exact opposite. They may be an alternative for you Theo Marshal
	Cool

02-27-2003, 07:49 PM	#13
marshal959 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: washington state Posts: 78	hack squats? holding bar in front?
	if it dont hurt, it didnt work

02-27-2003, 07:52 PM	#14
Scotty the Body I'm Dead Sexxxxy!! Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 4,970	No, a hack squat machine although doing front squats will hit the quads better using less weight, may also be easier on the knee if your using less weight.
	Cool

02-27-2003, 08:08 PM	#15
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	Marshal, A little food for thought: Squat Analysis
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,798	"...we have to remember that training is a complicated dance of stimuli and response. Our goal is to understand how to manipulate the stimuli in order to evoke the responses we desire." -Nathan J. Polenchek

02-27-2003, 08:12 PM	#16
marshal959 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: washington state Posts: 78	Wow, thanks a lot! That was really cool of you.
	if it dont hurt, it didnt work

02-28-2003, 12:59 PM	#24
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,736 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	I go just a bit (few inches) below parallel, it helps to incorporate more hams and glutes.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

02-28-2003, 05:57 AM	#18
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	Have you ever used a hack machine but backwards? like, you put your stomach on it and put your feet near the sides, on the balls of your feet...feet pointing out a little bit, so you squat down like a frog? it really kills your hams/glutes.
	www.kingsburymusic.net

02-28-2003, 11:30 AM	#20
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	yeah, but this way really hits it in different spots.. like more towards the outside of your legs I think..
	www.kingsburymusic.net

02-28-2003, 12:29 PM	#21
Duncan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 372	Alot of people totally neglect some movements for their legs because they feel it will further a so-called injury they have. The truth of the matter is, if a movement does not doesn't hurt when you do it or shortly after, you can feel free to continue the movement, gradually increasing the weight week to week in order to recondition the muscle. Your body will tell you when you are causing damage to it. Endorphins or not, your body can tell and so can you. I see people every day who come in and say that they have to avoid this and that because their doctor said so. I once trained a surgeon who squatted like a retard and could not give me isolation exercises for each of the 3 heads of the shoulder. My point is, you wouldn't go to a gynecologist and ask about tooth decay so, if you are going to seek exercise advice, go to an exercise physiologist.
	Man on a mission!

02-28-2003, 12:36 PM	#22
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,736 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	Hack Squats are great they put a lot of stress directly on the quads, however they also put a lot of stress on the knees. I do not recommend going very heavy on them, instead use moderate weight with slow controlled reps, and make you go down to a 90 degree angle (I like to go a bit deeper, just past 90).
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System.

02-28-2003, 12:50 PM	#23
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	how deep do you go with regular squats?
	www.kingsburymusic.net

02-28-2003, 03:52 PM	#25
marshal959 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: washington state Posts: 78	afternoon! I did hack squats last night and they were awesome, I had the best leg day ever! I did about 8 sets then extensions then single leg curls. Very sore today. Not too much pain either.
	if it dont hurt, it didnt work

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