Newbie Question....

Karlito · 04-14-2003, 09:45 AM

Two newbie questions:

1. When doing 4 sets of 8-12 reps of an exercise with the goal of course being to grow.....

Say you do the first, then struggle to pump out 8 the next time. On the third set you can barely do five.....

At this point do you: Simply do as many as you can of the heavy weight, even if that means doing only five. Or drop the weight lightly so you fail in the 8-12 range?

2. After your workout, is there any benefit to "burning out" your muscles by say doing high reps with medium weight? Or say doing an extra set of pushups after your normal chest day?

**gopro** · 04-14-2003, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Karlito
Two newbie questions:

1. When doing 4 sets of 8-12 reps of an exercise with the goal of course being to grow.....

Say you do the first, then struggle to pump out 8 the next time. On the third set you can barely do five.....

At this point do you: Simply do as many as you can of the heavy weight, even if that means doing only five. Or drop the weight lightly so you fail in the 8-12 range?

YOU CAN REALLY GO EITHER WAY. YOU CAN MAKE YOUR GOAL FOR THE DAY 8-12 REPS AND ADJUST THE WEIGHT EACH SET TO STAY IN THAT RANGE, OR, YOU CAN STAY WITH THE SAME WEIGHT/INCREASE THE WEIGHT EACH SET AND GO WITH LOWER REPS. BOTH METHODS HAVE MERIT. TRY DOING ONE METHOD FOR 4 WEEKS AND THEN THE OTHER FOR 4 WEEKS. TRACK YOUR PROGRESS AND SEE WHICH WORKS BETTER FOR YOU. JUST DON'T GO LOWER THAN 4 STRICT REPS.

2. After your workout, is there any benefit to "burning out" your muscles by say doing high reps with medium weight? Or say doing an extra set of pushups after your normal chest day?

YOU CAN DO THIS IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU STILL HAVE LOTS OF ENERGY LEFT. HOWEVER, IF YOUR WORKOUT ALREADY HAS YOU EXHAUSTED, AND THE BODYPART YOU TRAINED ALREADY FEELS FRIED, THAN FORGET A "BURNOUT SET" FOR THAT DAY.

**Prince** · 04-14-2003, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
YOU CAN DO THIS IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU STILL HAVE LOTS OF ENERGY LEFT. HOWEVER, IF YOUR WORKOUT ALREADY HAS YOU EXHAUSTED, AND THE BODYPART YOU TRAINED ALREADY FEELS FRIED, THAN FORGET A "BURNOUT SET" FOR THAT DAY.

but that implies that fatigue and exhaustion cause hypertrophy.

**gopro** · 04-14-2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
but that implies that fatigue and exhaustion cause hypertrophy.

Well, since we cannot take a biopsy of our muscles after each workout to see if we've caused the proper damage to the fibers to cause hypertrophy we must often look for subjective signs that we have had a decent workout. This can be very difficult for newbies who often either under or overtrain. So while bing exhausted is not necessarily a true marker of whether a workout caused hypertrophy, it can help to tell a newbie whether they need/can do more that day.

Karlito · 04-14-2003, 10:43 AM

I generally stop if I'm tremoring....when my muscles are shaking I don't push it any further....

But if I just feel heavily "pumped" but not totally burnt, I'll drop and do twenty pushups, or do 15-20 curls with a medium weight....

What other signs do I look for to know I've done enough for the day?

**Prince** · 04-14-2003, 11:53 AM

No, we cannot take a biopospy of the muscle, but we can use the science available and consrtuct sensible work-outs rather than relying on things like fatigue as a measure.

I use a set number of sets/reps/exercises per body part and stop when I have completed them. I do not care whether or not I feel fatigued, exhausted, pumped, etc. I feel that if you used that as a measure you would quickly end up in a state of overtraining.

Karlito · 04-14-2003, 12:31 PM

Quote:

I have completed them. I do not care whether or not I feel fatigued, exhausted, pumped, etc. I feel that if you used that as a measure you would quickly end up in a state of overtraining.

Yeah, but likewise following that guideline couldn't you wind up in a state of "undertraining" many times? Many days my strength varies based on how much sleep I got, my mood, etc....so some days I'm able to do more than others.

My biggest fear is never over-doing it. My biggest fear is wasting that pain, sweat, and time I put in every morning.

**Prince** · 04-14-2003, 12:46 PM

First of all I would rather be in an undertrained state than an overtrained state because you're more likely to regress if you overtrain.

Secondly, if you set up a routine with a logical set & rep scheme and follow this routine for 4-6 weeks and track your progress you can then reevaluate it's effectiveness.

I do not know how anyone, especially a newbie, could possibly measure the success of a work-out based on how they feel, at least not in terms of gaining size & strength.

Karlito · 04-14-2003, 01:01 PM

Well when you say "Newbie", it means I'm new to weightlifting...not NEW on this PLANET or just purchased this body.

I was an avid cyclist for many years, so while yeah, it's different, I know my body and the way my muscles react to stress pretty well, and can guess the rest based on my past failures at the gym and the 10 weeks I have under my belt....

I see your point though, and naturally I follow my program as a frame-work first and foremost. It just makes sense to push myself harder on days where I can take it....and utilize "burnout sets", etc...if there's some benefit there, it makes sense to do it, yes?

**Prince** · 04-14-2003, 01:50 PM

whatever works for you.

**Prince** · 04-14-2003, 03:26 PM

Exactly!

**gopro** · 04-14-2003, 04:02 PM

You guys are right...I have no idea what I'm talking about.

**gopro** · 04-14-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bear
I never said that.

All I said was continuous overload & progression works, period

Well, if you really want to get technical, the truth is that as you go on with your years of training it gets much more complicated than that.

My basic point earlier was not to discuss the physiological basis of hypertrophy, but to simply tell the original poster that there is nothing wrong with an occassional "burnout" set at the end of a bodypart workout. Usually I don't need such a thing myself, but once in a while I will do it to shock a bodypart or because I feel like I have the mental/physical energy for 1 extra set.

**Prince** · 04-14-2003, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
You guys are right...I have no idea what I'm talking about.

no one said that.

I just do not entirely agree with what you're saying in this thread.

**gopro** · 04-14-2003, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
no one said that.

I just do not entirely agree with what you're saying in this thread.

Well you are small and love TCD!

Seriously though...I don't understand really what you are disagreeing with. Like I said, I wasn't giving a huge physiological dialogue on what the guidelines are for achieving maximum hypertrophy. There is NO reason why you can't break from your normal schedule every now and again and add an extra set or two if you instinctively feel you need or want it. Of course I do not suggest that people regularly add sets to each workout and cause overtraining, but once in a while CAN ENHANCE PROGRESS.

**Prince** · 04-14-2003, 07:52 PM

I may be short, but not small.

**gopro** · 04-15-2003, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
I may be short, but not small.

Short people got no reason to liiiiivvvvveee...short people got no reason....

**Jodi** · 04-15-2003, 06:35 AM

Hey GP!!! Whats up with that!

**gopro** · 04-15-2003, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jodi

Hey GP!!! Whats up with that!

Only playing Jodi...I love the short people! My last girlfriend was only 4'11"

butterfly · 04-15-2003, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jodi

Hey GP!!! Whats up with that!

Don't worry Jodi... every ELSE luvs ya!

**gopro** · 04-15-2003, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by butterfly
Don't worry Jodi... every ELSE luvs ya!

Ohhhh...I love Jodi too...don't worry about that!

rhancill · 04-16-2003, 04:44 AM

Prince, why do u always have to disagree with someone (always seems to be gopro's), and prove that your theory is 'the best', and try and make a better statement than the last person?

It seems like you are always wanting to go 'one better' in what you say rather than listen to what other people say about a subject.

**gopro** · 04-16-2003, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rhancill
Prince, why do u always have to disagree with someone (always seems to be gopro's), and prove that your theory is 'the best', and try and make a better statement than the last person?

It seems like you are always wanting to go 'one better' in what you say rather than listen to what other people say about a subject.

Yeah Prince! What about that?!

pumpit · 04-16-2003, 10:12 AM

ok people TIIMME OUT!!
gopro in blue corner prince in the red
both are trying to cool off and think but to no avail.
ding, ding it's a tie!

04-14-2003, 09:45 AM	#1
Karlito Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 136	Newbie Question.... Two newbie questions: 1. When doing 4 sets of 8-12 reps of an exercise with the goal of course being to grow..... Say you do the first, then struggle to pump out 8 the next time. On the third set you can barely do five..... At this point do you: Simply do as many as you can of the heavy weight, even if that means doing only five. Or drop the weight lightly so you fail in the 8-12 range? 2. After your workout, is there any benefit to "burning out" your muscles by say doing high reps with medium weight? Or say doing an extra set of pushups after your normal chest day?

04-14-2003, 11:53 AM	#6
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	No, we cannot take a biopospy of the muscle, but we can use the science available and consrtuct sensible work-outs rather than relying on things like fatigue as a measure. I use a set number of sets/reps/exercises per body part and stop when I have completed them. I do not care whether or not I feel fatigued, exhausted, pumped, etc. I feel that if you used that as a measure you would quickly end up in a state of overtraining.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

04-14-2003, 12:46 PM	#8
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	First of all I would rather be in an undertrained state than an overtrained state because you're more likely to regress if you overtrain. Secondly, if you set up a routine with a logical set & rep scheme and follow this routine for 4-6 weeks and track your progress you can then reevaluate it's effectiveness. I do not know how anyone, especially a newbie, could possibly measure the success of a work-out based on how they feel, at least not in terms of gaining size & strength.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

04-14-2003, 01:50 PM	#10
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	whatever works for you.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

04-14-2003, 03:26 PM	#11
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	Exactly!
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

04-14-2003, 10:43 AM	#5
Karlito Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 136	I generally stop if I'm tremoring....when my muscles are shaking I don't push it any further.... But if I just feel heavily "pumped" but not totally burnt, I'll drop and do twenty pushups, or do 15-20 curls with a medium weight.... What other signs do I look for to know I've done enough for the day?

04-14-2003, 01:01 PM	#9
Karlito Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NY Posts: 136	Well when you say "Newbie", it means I'm new to weightlifting...not NEW on this PLANET or just purchased this body. I was an avid cyclist for many years, so while yeah, it's different, I know my body and the way my muscles react to stress pretty well, and can guess the rest based on my past failures at the gym and the 10 weeks I have under my belt.... I see your point though, and naturally I follow my program as a frame-work first and foremost. It just makes sense to push myself harder on days where I can take it....and utilize "burnout sets", etc...if there's some benefit there, it makes sense to do it, yes?

04-14-2003, 04:02 PM	#12
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,496	You guys are right...I have no idea what I'm talking about.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

04-14-2003, 07:52 PM	#16
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	I may be short, but not small.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

04-15-2003, 06:35 AM	#18
Jodi Super Moderator Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 22,239 Photos: 1	Hey GP!!! Whats up with that!
	Essence EFA

04-16-2003, 04:44 AM	#22
rhancill Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: England Posts: 19	Prince, why do u always have to disagree with someone (always seems to be gopro's), and prove that your theory is 'the best', and try and make a better statement than the last person? It seems like you are always wanting to go 'one better' in what you say rather than listen to what other people say about a subject.

04-16-2003, 10:12 AM	#24
pumpit Madman Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: London Posts: 111	ok people TIIMME OUT!! gopro in blue corner prince in the red both are trying to cool off and think but to no avail. ding, ding it's a tie!
	The harder you try the tougher you will be!

04-16-2003, 11:55 AM	#25
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313