Thread: Small calves, need help!

Originally Posted by er80sc

Genetically, I have very skinny calves. Having longer than normal legs doesn't help their look either. I have managed to get them bigger, and finally had people tell me they look like 'normal calves' now. Sad, but that's actually a compliment. I've become a decent power lifter (repping 3 plates on bench, 4 plates on squats, good form and all), but I need to get bigger gains with my calves.

During my last cycle, I split my workouts into two in preparation for my Football season. I'd do strictly lifting (example, chest and back) and abs for the first, then the second would be 20 minutes of cardio, 2 sets of 4 of forearms and calves. I did that same second workout up to 6 times a week.

The way my calves are, they start to bulge half way up my shin. I know a lot of athletes that managed to get great looking calves with my same body type.

So I'm seeing some good results, but I'm sure you pros would know a few tips. Please help me out. Thanks!

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about...

You hit your calves six days a week? Did i read that correctly?

Severe overtraining if thats the case. Id isolate them once a week, maybe twice, the most.

Try compounds such as hang cleans. They recruit the calves big time when you perform them in an explosive manner. Maybe skip a cardio session and perform some farmer walks instead.

You said you squat. squats seem to recruit calves for me but it has to be heavy with the right foot positioning. Btw, Your ankle bone structure seems unusually narrow for someone who squats 400 for reps.



^ keeping all of this mind, what is your caloric intake looking like? Whats your current bodyweight? You'll need a cal surplus for any growth.

my sister has bigger calves than you just kidding, small or high set calves are genetic but this does not mean you can't get them bigger. what i found very helpful was raises standing on the edge of a step board and using the smith machine like squatting only now you just do calves raises)you do them twice a week, 3 intense sets with toes pointing out, then 3 sets with toes pointing slightly in this way you make sure different parts of the calves and internal muscles are working. then you do 2 sets of whatever other exercise you want. the key is to do them slowly with a pause at maximum contraction. after you finish stretch them . the sets must be intense with high repetition 12-15 and done slowly.

Originally Posted by er80sc

I need to get bigger gains with my calves.

During my last cycle, I split my workouts into two in preparation for my Football season. I'd do strictly lifting (example, chest and back) and abs for the first, then the second would be 20 minutes of cardio, 2 sets of 4 of forearms and calves. I did that same second workout up to 6 times a week.

The way my calves are, they start to bulge half way up my shin. I know a lot of athletes that managed to get great looking calves with my same body type.

So I'm seeing some good results, but I'm sure you pros would know a few tips.

A Tale of Two Muscles

The two largest muscles in the calf are the Gastronemius and the Soleus.

Each respond to a different type of training. Think of on as night and the other as day.

Gastrocnemius

The Gastrocnemius is composed of more fast twitch muscle fiber. Thus, it respond better to repetition of 8-12 repetitions.

Activation of the Gastrocnemius occurs with the leg being straight.

The best exercises for the Gastrocnemius are Standing Calf Raises and Running.

Soleus

This musle is compose of more slow twitch muscle fiber. Thus, it repond best to high repetition sets. Your repetitions need to be in the 20 plus area.

Activation of the Solues occurs moreso when the leg is bent.

That means exercises like Seated Calf Raises work the Soleus more effectively.

The Resilient Calf

The calf is a lot like the old Timex Watch commercial. It can "Take a licking and keep on ticking."

That meaning that you can work it pretty much everyday and make good progress, as you stated.

"The Bodybuilding Pump"

Research shows that "The Bodybuilding Pump" creates an anabolic environment in which muscle growth takes place.

Venous Blood Flow

Blood flows into the muscles via arterial blood flow. Blood flows back to the heatr via venous blood flow.

Trapping Blood In The Muscle

Muscle contractions constrict the venous artery. That means blood becomes trapped in the muscle and cannot get out.

This creates "The Pump".

Short Rest Periods

Taking short periods between sets (as bodybuilder do) magnifies "The Pump"...which is an anabolic environment in which muscle growth takes place.

Rest periods of 1-2 minutes between sets.

Calf Training Summary:

1) Gastrocnemius Training: Sets of 8-12 Repetitions from a Standing Position.

2) Soleus Training: Sets of 20 Repetitions plus from a Seated Position.

3) Short Rest Periods between sets, 1-2 minutes.

4) Resilient Calf: The calf reponds to more training, like you are now doing.

Kenny Croxdale

Climb a ladder all day with a tool belt on. That is what I did and calves are big

The Resilient Calf

The calf is a lot like the old Timex Watch commercial. It can "Take a licking and keep on ticking."

That meaning that you can work it pretty much everyday and make good progress, as you stated.

^^^I never heard of a muscle you can train every day, ask PJ Braun he'll tell you the same thing^^^^

Originally Posted by ctr10

The Resilient Calf

The calf is a lot like the old Timex Watch commercial. It can "Take a licking and keep on ticking."

That meaning that you can work it pretty much everyday and make good progress, as you stated.

^^^I never heard of a muscle you can train every day, ask PJ Braun he'll tell you the same thing^^^^

Sprinters, Distance Runners, Bikers

Some of the best athletes with calves are sprinters, distance runners and bikers.

They train their calves on a daily basis.

Arnold
Oak Roots: How Arnold Turned His Biggest Weakness His Calves Into A Showcase Muscle | SimplyShredded.com


Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by dirtwarrior

Climb a ladder all day with a tool belt on. That is what I did and calves are big

Good Point

You get paid for your calf training. Nice!

Kenny Croxdale

This is an article from Muscle Prodigy. It doesn't state the author.



Arnold Schwarzenneger's Calf Routine

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In order to be proportionate enough to step onto a bodybuilding stage and actually win it, your biceps and your calves have to be identical in size. So if you have 21" biceps, you better step on stage with 21" calf muscles or don't even consider entering yourself into the Mr. Olympia. This was the one thing that Arnold Schwarzenegger struggled with for years. When he entered his first competiton, the Mr. Universe, at 19 years old, he soon learned that bodybuilding was more about just building muscle in the upper body. His calves were his biggest weakness, and for a majority of us, we can feel Arnold's pain here. We all blame it on genetics, yet, there is something that we can do about it: train with the incessant vigor that Arnold had to get them from being puny chicken legs into razor sharp diamonds.


Arnold cut all of his training sweatpants at the knees to constantly remind him that they needed his attention, and it worked. Arnold would hit his calves with 500 pound standing calf raises, donkey calf raises, and seated calf raises a blistering 6 days a week. Arnold eventually was able to walk onto the 1970 Mr. Olympia stage with 20" calves, which would even stick out in today's bodybuilding lineup. Oh yea, he won that Mr. Olympia and 6 others.

Arnold would go as heavy as possible on the standing calf raises.


Monday/Wednesday/Friday

Donkey Calf Raises- 4 Sets x 10 Reps
Standing Calf Raises- 4 Sets x 10 Reps
Seated Calf Raises- 4 Sets x 10 Reps



Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday

Standing Calf Raises- 4 Sets x 15, 10, 8, 6
Calf Raises on a Leg Press Machine- 4 Sets x 10 Reps


Arnold did whatever it took to gain respectable sizable gains in his calf muscles and had an unprecedented work ethic to do it. He even did donkey calf rasies with multiple people on his back.




Arnold just had what it took to defy genetics...Do YOU?

I have the same issue my calves are cut and hard but won't grow in size I only hit my calves twice a week.either you can build them or you can't.There is a black guy at my gym huge as fuck nice thighs but his calves are about same as guy in the pic.He claims they don't grow.

I had to get my reps on all calf exercises up into the 25-30 range before they would respond well.

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Sprinters, Distance Runners, Bikers

Some of the best athletes with calves are sprinters, distance runners and bikers.

They train their calves on a daily basis.

Arnold
Oak Roots: How Arnold Turned His Biggest Weakness His Calves Into A Showcase Muscle | SimplyShredded.com


Kenny Croxdale

I think running and lifting weights are two different types of training, ever see a guy who runs every day for a long time, he doesn't get bigger he leans out

Vary your rep ranges.

Exercise #1 6-9 rep range
Exercise #2 8-12 rep range
Exercise #3 12-20 rep range

Then switch the rep range every 3 weeks or so

Exercise #1 8-12 rep range
Exercise #2 12-20 rep range
Exercise #3 6-9 rep range

Control the weight specially on the way down. Take at least 2 sec on the way down.
Avoid resting in the stretch position!! bang out a few partial reps at strecth positions when using heavy weights

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Gastrocnemius

The Gastrocnemius is composed of more fast twitch muscle fiber. Thus, it respond better to repetition of 8-12 repetitions.

Activation of the Gastrocnemius occurs with the leg being straight.

The best exercises for the Gastrocnemius are Standing Calf Raises and Running.

Soleus

This musle is compose of more slow twitch muscle fiber. Thus, it repond best to high repetition sets. Your repetitions need to be in the 20 plus area.

Activation of the Solues occurs moreso when the leg is bent.

That means exercises like Seated Calf Raises work the Soleus more effectively.

Bummer. In my gym the calf press (seated but straight-legged) is maxxed at 360 and my reps are 30+, maybe 15 if I go hyper-slow and draw out the eccentrics. The seated calf raises machine however has a sky-is-the-limit plate stack that I can boost to a 5-rep failure level without a problem. This is exactly the opposite of the advice given above. Any suggestions for dealing with those machine limitations to make their impact more ideal?

^^^ just try the smith machine raises as i explained above and you tell me what you think.

arnold did mention that calves can be trained every day, but that was long time ago and i disagree with him, everyday is a bit too much. i did train them three time a week for a while and got great results, now i limit them to twice a week. i just do a total of 6-8 sets but slow and high reps with a slight pause in the peak contraction phase.
everyday is pushing it especially if you do cardio training. sprinters do train every day and have great calves, however they train every day not to have big calves , they train every day for other purposes,...in order to get big calves you do not need to train calves every day, training them twice or three times a week will give you bigger calves, not a faster sprint but bigger looking calves

when it comes to training your calfs bro you need to work with some serious weight.
Your calf muscles are already strong, even though they are not large.
They are being used so much you have know idea what they are capable of.
I suggest getting on legpress machine, keep the safety on, see how much you can actually calf press.
when I first started hitting my calfs (and trust me they were pathetic, and thats them in my avi) I was shocked by how much weight they could press. i was calf pressing 700+ lbs and really getting a big pump. This may sound crazy but you should easily be able to calf press more than you can leg press.
If you just mess around with a couple hundred pounds for 15-20 reps you might as well just walk across a parking lot. you need at least 3x bodyweight when training calves

Thanks, guys! Good info, keep em' coming

Originally Posted by SFW

You hit your calves six days a week? Did i read that correctly?

Severe overtraining if thats the case. Id isolate them once a week, maybe twice, the most.

Try compounds such as hang cleans. They recruit the calves big time when you perform them in an explosive manner. Maybe skip a cardio session and perform some farmer walks instead.

You said you squat. squats seem to recruit calves for me but it has to be heavy with the right foot positioning. Btw, Your ankle bone structure seems unusually narrow for someone who squats 400 for reps.



^ keeping all of this mind, what is your caloric intake looking like? Whats your current bodyweight? You'll need a cal surplus for any growth.

Thanks for the reply. I read how Arnold has a problem with his calves so he went at it 6 times a week. It is working, but at a slower rate than most. I probably just need to be patient.

I rep 4 plates as in I get get it 6-7 times. I have strong bones, knock on wood, but you're right. I have very skinny ankles and wrists. I think in the long run that'll help me look bigger.

When it comes to over training, I don't I am. I felt fine, very sore, but fine. Only time it hurt, was during Football practice a few times. I'm hitting my cycle earlier this season so I won't have to worry about that.

But I think I'll take your advice on cardio. I'll skip a couple, do it every other day. Hopefully that'll rush more blood to my calves.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by sendit08

when it comes to training your calfs bro you need to work with some serious weight.
Your calf muscles are already strong, even though they are not large.
They are being used so much you have know idea what they are capable of.
I suggest getting on legpress machine, keep the safety on, see how much you can actually calf press.
when I first started hitting my calfs (and trust me they were pathetic, and thats them in my avi) I was shocked by how much weight they could press. i was calf pressing 700+ lbs and really getting a big pump. This may sound crazy but you should easily be able to calf press more than you can leg press.

700 lb Plus "Calf Press"

Using this kind of load indicates you are not correctly peforming a full range calf raise. You performing some type of hybrid movement. In plain English, you are fooling yourself.

Originally Posted by sendit08

If you just mess around with a couple hundred pounds for 15-20 reps you might as well just walk across a parking lot. you need at least 3x bodyweight when training calves

Calf Anatomy

You need understand the anatomy of the calf. There are two muscle in the calf the respond to completely different protocols.

Muscle Fiber Training Method

Each muscle has a muscle fiber dominance. That means it is either geared toward Fast Twitch or Slow Twitch.

To maximize the growth of each muscle, you need to design a program that elicits the greatest amount of muscle fiber growth of its dominate muscle fiber type.

Foreign Language

To grow muscle mass, you need to speak to the muscle in a language it understands.

It similar to speaking to an individual who only speaks English. If you speak to them in Spanish, they aren't going to understand what you or do what you ask.

Muscle Fiber Language

Each muscle speaks either the "Fast Twitch Language" or the "Slow Twitch Language".

To maximize muscle growth you need to communicate with each muscle in it "Muscle Fiber Language".

Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber

The Soleus muscle is primarily composed of Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber.

The Soleus is 89% Slow Twitch and 11% Fast Twitch.

High Repetition/High Volume Training

What that tells us is that the Soleus reponds and grow best with high repetition, high volume training.

Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber

The Gastrocnemius is composed of 49-53% Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber.

Moderate Repetition Training

The Gastrocnemius appears to respond better to moderate repetitions, 8-12.

Muscle Fiber Precentage Source:
Abcbodybuilding.com

Kenny Croxdale

I look at it this way. Your on your feet , your walking, your using your calves for so many hours a day. Yours calves are used to the work so it shouldn't hurt to train them everyday. Your calves never rest. You just have to train them harder because they are used to constant resistance. I know alot of you on here will blast me for this but this is just my opinion. When Arnold speaks I listen. He is the greatest champion of all time. He has accomplished so much more than any of us ever will.

I found a jolt (for myself anyways) for my calves was in doing my usual 20 reps I added another 10 very hard reps(drop weight by 20 lbs to keep form) for a total of 30 reps pr set.....I definitley see a siz/strength gain.....also, personally found I can work them better (more contolled,not having to readjust b/c feet slipping etc.....) doing either donkey or that 90 degree machine......anyways, just food for thought good luck

Occlusion training. It works

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

700 lb Plus "Calf Press"

Using this kind of load indicates you are not correctly peforming a full range calf raise. You performing some type of hybrid movement. In plain English, you are fooling yourself.

this is all fine to write because it makes people think you are so smart and scientific.
But I am telling this guy what got REAL LIFE results for me!
maybe your way works better.
But I can assure you I am not fooling myself one bit.
when i look in the mirror and see the amount of progress I have made I have all the reassurance I need that I train my calfes properly.

Calf Anatomy

You need understand the anatomy of the calf. There are two muscle in the calf the respond to completely different protocols.

Muscle Fiber Training Method

Each muscle has a muscle fiber dominance. That means it is either geared toward Fast Twitch or Slow Twitch.

To maximize the growth of each muscle, you need to design a program that elicits the greatest amount of muscle fiber growth of its dominate muscle fiber type.

Foreign Language

To grow muscle mass, you need to speak to the muscle in a language it understands.

It similar to speaking to an individual who only speaks English. If you speak to them in Spanish, they aren't going to understand what you or do what you ask.

Muscle Fiber Language

Each muscle speaks either the "Fast Twitch Language" or the "Slow Twitch Language".

To maximize muscle growth you need to communicate with each muscle in it "Muscle Fiber Language".

Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber

The Soleus muscle is primarily composed of Slow Twitch Muscle Fiber.

The Soleus is 89% Slow Twitch and 11% Fast Twitch.

High Repetition/High Volume Training

What that tells us is that the Soleus reponds and grow best with high repetition, high volume training.

Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber

The Gastrocnemius is composed of 49-53% Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber.

Moderate Repetition Training

The Gastrocnemius appears to respond better to moderate repetitions, 8-12.

Muscle Fiber Precentage Source:
Abcbodybuilding.com

Kenny Croxdale

I am glad you broke it down scientifically for everyone.
I still think your method is just one way in a series of different methods, because I have REAL results that i can touch and see everyday.
I have grown my calfes into full, large, proportional, muscles by using more weight than I do with any other excersice.
I will add, however, that I did also add outdoor uphill sprinting which seems to be may fall under that fast twitch training that you are describing.
I am not attacking the way you go about recommending training calves i am just stated what worked best for me.
If you think i am full of shit or "fooling myself" then i am sorry but you are wrong.

edit note**
I should also add that i came here looking for advice and I got the idea to train so heavy on calves from a moderator by the name of "built" if i am not mistaken. I havent seen her posting lately so maybe shes not on here anymore but she gave alot of very credible advice and it worked well for me.

Originally Posted by sendit08

I am glad you broke it down scientifically for everyone.
I still think your method is just one way in a series of different methods, because I have REAL results that i can touch and see everyday.
I have grown my calfes into full, large, proportional, muscles by using more weight than I do with any other excersice.
I will add, however, that I did also add outdoor uphill sprinting which seems to be may fall under that fast twitch training that you are describing.
I am not attacking the way you go about recommending training calves i am just stated what worked best for me.
If you think i am full of shit or "fooling myself" then i am sorry but you are wrong.

edit note**
I should also add that i came here looking for advice and I got the idea to train so heavy on calves from a moderator by the name of "built" if i am not mistaken. I havent seen her posting lately so maybe shes not on here anymore but she gave alot of very credible advice and it worked well for me.

Okay, cool. Whatever I'm doing has worked but hasn't had the same effect as of lately. I've been working them 6 days a week like Arnold, but now I have to really go heavy on like he did. I'll just treat them like any other big muscle. Thanks

Originally Posted by Little Guy

Occlusion training. It works

Occlusion Training

It is an effective method.

However, I doubt anyone knows or understands this method beside you and I.

Kenny Croxdale

Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale

Occlusion Training

It is an effective method.

However, I doubt anyone knows or understands this method beside you and I.

Kenny Croxdale

Lol...

Increasing time under tension and doing partial at the stretch position towards the end of your sets will utilize some of the occlusion principles.

Jshredz

ok here to answer some of the comments:
1- Training calves with 700 lbs is not a good training. many of you here just look at the weight but very few perform the exercises with proper form, the smallest swing will make a big difference. the weights drop enormously when proper form and tempo are used. So no need for so much weight, calves respond better with higher reps...sometimes using slow tempo and sometimes a bit faster
2- training them everyday is not good either...sure Arnold said so once but this does not mean that it is true...most pro bodybuilders and even olympia contenders do not know how to train properly on their own, why? because they do not think...however with all the substances they use, anything would work for them. natural bodybuilding is a different story.
3- training should produce the " pump" feeling, occlusion training does that more so , however i do not encourage it for many reasons and don't think personally that it works as good as it is thought to do.
4- a calf muscle size can be misinterpreted, some calf muscles are big across but look small because they are short and stuck up high. this is a genetic factor that do not affect strength but it only affects the looks and is only slightly modifiable by training. but i have to note that i have noticed that short looking calves SOMETIMES produce explosive and quick repetitive power that is good for sprinting, and sometimes jumping while big full calves can produce greater but slower forces and forces that last longer...only a nice..iam not sure about the truth of it...... but in general there is no difference in the performance of full calves vs short ones, only in the looks. A muscle strength depends on its cross section (number of fibers and how thay are used) not it's length

^^^self proclaimed expert at it again

^^^ this is my opinion , if you have one please post it so we can share or engage in a discussion instead of criticizing for no reason