Vote: Would you consider this an overtraining workout?

firestorm · 06-21-2003, 11:52 PM

The following is an page from one of my old Journals back in my steroid using days. I'd be curious to hear from you guys if you would consider this overtraining. I'm not putting in the correct poundages at this time but will do so after I get some responses.

All my workouts were pyramid sets.
** = Warmups
Chest
Flat bench press
1 x 10 x 135**
1 x 08 x 225** Could have done more; warmup
1 x 06 x 275
1 x 06 x 315
1 x 06 x 365
1 x 06 x 405
1 x 04 x 495

Incline Bench Press

1 x 10 x 225 ** Could have done more but just a warmup
1 x 08 x 315
1 x 08 x 365
1 x 06 x 405
1 x 04 x 455

Dips
1 x 10 x 90
1 x 10 x 135
1 x 08 x 160
1 x 06 x 160

Incline Flies
1 x 12 x 60
1 x 12 x 70
1 x 12 x 70

Flat flies
1 x 12 x 70
1 x 12 x 70

*in regards to the 1st working sets with 225 (flats 8 and incline 10) I could have done many more but held back for the heavier sets.
I used to walk in the gym and just for fun do as many reps with 225 as I could. My best was 48 nonstop on flats.

Eggs · 06-22-2003, 12:06 AM

I'd say over 16 sets is excessive if you arent using roids. On though, a whole different story... of course I've never used so I couldnt vouch for that.

I think personally that you could shave off a few sets here and there and the workout would be just as effective... if not more so. Not sure how much time you spent in the gym though.

I did workouts pretty similar to that and wasnt using roids (different weights of course), but I limited it to 18 sets. Had decent results, but rest, supplementation and diet definitely were key. If those had been off I'd probably have suffered from overtraining somewhat quickly.

Haha, were you buying gear down in TJ FS? Ah well, gotta do what you gotta do huh? Pic up that habit in training?

**Mudge** · 06-22-2003, 12:07 AM

By todays standards hell yes. Here is a sample of what I used, I think I am falling into the thinking as well like many others. This program kicked my ass like nothing before or since, and yes it actually worked like a mother.

**Mudge** · 06-22-2003, 12:08 AM

...and no I was using no drugs, but I was around 17/18

firestorm · 06-22-2003, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eggs

Haha, were you buying gear down in TJ FS? Ah well, gotta do what you gotta do huh? Pic up that habit in training?

HAHAHAHA,, No comment. Been to TJ but Ironically never bought anything there.
You mentioned not those numbers(pounds) but I didn't put any numbers!! I only left the 1st set
PS NEITHER OF YOU GUYS VOTED WHICH IS CHEATING!!! GO FUKING VOTE NOW!!!!!

firestorm · 06-22-2003, 12:26 AM

That looks pretty damn tuff there Mudge!!!

**Mudge** · 06-22-2003, 12:43 AM

It was tough (decision), but going back to "my roots" I voted no. I chose this because I look at the body as such. The body is a stubborn mother f'er, you eventually reach a point where the only way to break the body into doing what you want it to do is punish it.

The body is stuborn, ITS NATURES LAW. It is not natural to be muscular for most of us, so to force the body to do what you want you have to hurt

I've been stuck in a rut so maybe its time for some punishment.

The main idea behind the above program, is that being sore means nothing. The theory was that if you ate right and got the rest, you could train every 3 hours.

firestorm · 06-22-2003, 12:56 AM

Well you and I are the small majority these days Mudge. I'll be honest and say that for many, that workout would be considered overtraining expecially for beginners and intermediates. I also would cycle my training so not to overtrain. I do the above type workout for 1 to 2 months and then cut some sets and even some of the poundage and go for a higher rep range never going under 8 for example. It was kind of a trick question. You really can't be wrong if you said yes or no.

firestorm · 06-22-2003, 12:57 AM

I'll toss my poundages in there now.

**Mudge** · 06-22-2003, 01:01 AM

Yep, one of the things that seemed to keep my body "confused" was going from a 15 rep, to 10 rep, and so on. HST uses this, just as the above "overtraining" program of mine used.

firestorm · 06-22-2003, 01:08 AM

yea I like changing rep ranges also. I also never do the same workout twice in a row.

**Mudge** · 06-22-2003, 01:48 AM

Thats one thing I dont do, I need to get on the ball, my evolution is slow...

firestorm · 06-22-2003, 01:53 AM

hahahaha your evolution is slow Mudge? funny

**Mudge** · 06-22-2003, 02:01 AM

I think I'm the kind of person that sometimes is blind to my own needs but am better at helping others, if you know what I mean.

firestorm · 06-22-2003, 02:09 AM

Yes I do. Hell I'm the same way at times.

crackerjack414 · 06-23-2003, 02:33 PM

overtraining is relative to each individuel and if this works for u then so be it.

djrx06 · 07-25-2003, 07:33 AM

I don't think so. 20 sets is around the max I will go during a workout. The only thing I would do is lessen the number of sets done on the flat bench and spread them out throughout the other sets....For example, 5 excercises done in one workout, 4 sets per excercise, none exceed 10-12 reps....although I like to say 10 is my max reps per set.

johhs · 08-27-2003, 12:44 PM

Hey Mudge
How much time did you space out workout 1 and 2
one morning one night type thing or closer together?

im 18 and sometimes feel like my muscles can take a lot more abuse than im giving them on my 5 day cycle

gopro · 08-27-2003, 03:57 PM

For a natural...absolutely.
For the chemically enhanced...nope.

**Prince** · 08-27-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
For the chemically enhanced...nope.

I like that title "Chemically Enhanced"!

gopro · 08-27-2003, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince

I like that title "Chemically Enhanced"!

Polite talk for "juiced to the gills!"

maniclion · 08-28-2003, 01:52 PM

I have to train that hard or I feel incomplete. I actually feel like my body produces more testosterone if I work that hard. But I also workout every other day which gives me plenty rest between, although sometimes I will workout or rest 2 or 3 days consecutively to throw myself a curve ball. I also usually start with a different orientation everytime, incline first one week, decline first the next as well as the tool, incline flyes, incline dumbells or incline barbell. Some of my workouts don't include the flat barbell press at all, which to my friends is taboo. They think every chest workout has to have it.

**P-funk** · 08-28-2003, 05:18 PM

I don't think it is overtraining if your body can handle it. I do anywere from 20-40 sets for bodyparts (except arms). Ussually a lot of supersets, tri-sets and giant sets and I keep the workout under 60min. (of course not all the time....I mix in low volume days also) And I have never done any drugs what so ever. The thing to think about is....is your body conditioned to handle this amount of stress???? A marathon runner doesn't just start out by runing 25miles a day. They slowley build up to it. The same In my opinion can be said about training with weights. If you condition yourself to handle a high volume workout, get enough rest, and keep a healthy diet then more power to ya....Go for it!!

**Mudge** · 08-28-2003, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by johhs
How much time did you space out workout 1 and 2
one morning one night type thing or closer together?

im 18 and sometimes feel like my muscles can take a lot more abuse than im giving them on my 5 day cycle

When I was training twice a day yada yada yes, I was around your age. I never believed in waiting so long before hitting the bodypart again, until I started getting older AND training harder. So I was very often using 3 on 1 off routines and the like, then eventually 4 on 1 off, and then 5/1, and now 5 on 2 off making it one solid week for each bodypart. If you truly abuse yourself though, thats when I started extending the time off between workouts.

If you have the ability to go twice a day you can probably push yourself a little more, but I would not put myself in that situation just right now, work work work etc Feel free to toy with the idea of cycling your heavy/normal workouts too.

Fit Freak · 08-29-2003, 09:52 PM

I think if you're "using" it's totally fine IMO. Naturally...too much BUT I also agree with P-Funk...even naturally if you work up to a high volume and rest/eat properly as well as periodize your training it may even be fine.

View Poll Results: Would you consider this OverTraining?
Yes	17	68.00%
Hell No,	8	32.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

06-21-2003, 11:52 PM	#1
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	Vote: Would you consider this an overtraining workout? The following is an page from one of my old Journals back in my steroid using days. I'd be curious to hear from you guys if you would consider this overtraining. I'm not putting in the correct poundages at this time but will do so after I get some responses. All my workouts were pyramid sets. = Warmups Chest Flat bench press 1 x 10 x 135 1 x 08 x 225 Could have done more; warmup 1 x 06 x 275 1 x 06 x 315 1 x 06 x 365 1 x 06 x 405 1 x 04 x 495 Incline Bench Press 1 x 10 x 225 Could have done more but just a warmup 1 x 08 x 315 1 x 08 x 365 1 x 06 x 405 1 x 04 x 455 Dips 1 x 10 x 90 1 x 10 x 135 1 x 08 x 160 1 x 06 x 160 Incline Flies 1 x 12 x 60 1 x 12 x 70 1 x 12 x 70 Flat flies 1 x 12 x 70 1 x 12 x 70 in regards to the 1st working sets with 225 (flats 8 and incline 10) I could have done many more but held back for the heavier sets. I used to walk in the gym and just for fun do as many reps with 225 as I could. My best was 48 nonstop on flats. Last edited by firestorm : 06-22-2003 at 01:06 AM.*

06-22-2003, 12:07 AM	#3
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	By todays standards hell yes. Here is a sample of what I used, I think I am falling into the thinking as well like many others. This program kicked my ass like nothing before or since, and yes it actually worked like a mother. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

06-22-2003, 12:08 AM	#4
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	...and no I was using no drugs, but I was around 17/18 Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

06-22-2003, 12:43 AM	#7
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	It was tough (decision), but going back to "my roots" I voted no. I chose this because I look at the body as such. The body is a stubborn mother f'er, you eventually reach a point where the only way to break the body into doing what you want it to do is punish it. The body is stuborn, ITS NATURES LAW. It is not natural to be muscular for most of us, so to force the body to do what you want you have to hurt I've been stuck in a rut so maybe its time for some punishment. The main idea behind the above program, is that being sore means nothing. The theory was that if you ate right and got the rest, you could train every 3 hours. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

06-22-2003, 12:06 AM	#2
Eggs Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,008	I'd say over 16 sets is excessive if you arent using roids. On though, a whole different story... of course I've never used so I couldnt vouch for that. I think personally that you could shave off a few sets here and there and the workout would be just as effective... if not more so. Not sure how much time you spent in the gym though. I did workouts pretty similar to that and wasnt using roids (different weights of course), but I limited it to 18 sets. Had decent results, but rest, supplementation and diet definitely were key. If those had been off I'd probably have suffered from overtraining somewhat quickly. Haha, were you buying gear down in TJ FS? Ah well, gotta do what you gotta do huh? Pic up that habit in training?

06-22-2003, 12:26 AM	#6
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	That looks pretty damn tuff there Mudge!!!

06-22-2003, 12:56 AM	#8
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	Well you and I are the small majority these days Mudge. I'll be honest and say that for many, that workout would be considered overtraining expecially for beginners and intermediates. I also would cycle my training so not to overtrain. I do the above type workout for 1 to 2 months and then cut some sets and even some of the poundage and go for a higher rep range never going under 8 for example. It was kind of a trick question. You really can't be wrong if you said yes or no.

06-22-2003, 12:57 AM	#9
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	I'll toss my poundages in there now.

06-22-2003, 01:01 AM	#10
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Yep, one of the things that seemed to keep my body "confused" was going from a 15 rep, to 10 rep, and so on. HST uses this, just as the above "overtraining" program of mine used. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

06-22-2003, 01:08 AM	#11
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	yea I like changing rep ranges also. I also never do the same workout twice in a row.

06-22-2003, 01:48 AM	#12
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Thats one thing I dont do, I need to get on the ball, my evolution is slow... Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

06-22-2003, 01:53 AM	#13
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	hahahaha your evolution is slow Mudge? funny

06-22-2003, 02:01 AM	#14
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	I think I'm the kind of person that sometimes is blind to my own needs but am better at helping others, if you know what I mean. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

06-22-2003, 02:09 AM	#15
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	Yes I do. Hell I'm the same way at times.

08-27-2003, 03:57 PM	#19
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: GLOBAL! Posts: 10,893	For a natural...absolutely. For the chemically enhanced...nope. All American EFX Sponsored Pro Bodybuilder/Internet Marketing Manager P/RR/S DVD and E-Book now available! P/RR/S DVD http://www.home-gym.com/erbrporepras.html P/RR/S E-BOOK html www.X-traordinaryWorkouts.com Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

06-23-2003, 02:33 PM	#16
crackerjack414 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: cali Posts: 644	overtraining is relative to each individuel and if this works for u then so be it.

07-25-2003, 07:33 AM	#17
djrx06 Iron Rich Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Downtown Miami Posts: 835 Photos: 2	I don't think so. 20 sets is around the max I will go during a workout. The only thing I would do is lessen the number of sets done on the flat bench and spread them out throughout the other sets....For example, 5 excercises done in one workout, 4 sets per excercise, none exceed 10-12 reps....although I like to say 10 is my max reps per set.

08-27-2003, 12:44 PM	#18
johhs Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 9	Hey Mudge How much time did you space out workout 1 and 2 one morning one night type thing or closer together? im 18 and sometimes feel like my muscles can take a lot more abuse than im giving them on my 5 day cycle

08-28-2003, 01:52 PM	#22
maniclion Cartographer of the Mind Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Mens Incognita Posts: 20,437 Photos: 10	I have to train that hard or I feel incomplete. I actually feel like my body produces more testosterone if I work that hard. But I also workout every other day which gives me plenty rest between, although sometimes I will workout or rest 2 or 3 days consecutively to throw myself a curve ball. I also usually start with a different orientation everytime, incline first one week, decline first the next as well as the tool, incline flyes, incline dumbells or incline barbell. Some of my workouts don't include the flat barbell press at all, which to my friends is taboo. They think every chest workout has to have it. "We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel when we should be using Natures inexhaustible sources of energy — sun, wind and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." Thomas Edison: In conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone

08-28-2003, 05:18 PM	#23
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,700	I don't think it is overtraining if your body can handle it. I do anywere from 20-40 sets for bodyparts (except arms). Ussually a lot of supersets, tri-sets and giant sets and I keep the workout under 60min. (of course not all the time....I mix in low volume days also) And I have never done any drugs what so ever. The thing to think about is....is your body conditioned to handle this amount of stress???? A marathon runner doesn't just start out by runing 25miles a day. They slowley build up to it. The same In my opinion can be said about training with weights. If you condition yourself to handle a high volume workout, get enough rest, and keep a healthy diet then more power to ya....Go for it!! E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

08-29-2003, 09:52 PM	#25
Fit Freak Fit Freak Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Halifax Posts: 1,797 Photos: 6	I think if you're "using" it's totally fine IMO. Naturally...too much BUT I also agree with P-Funk...even naturally if you work up to a high volume and rest/eat properly as well as periodize your training it may even be fine. Searching for the right balance...

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