rep range?

jadakris31 · 06-27-2003, 11:24 AM

im trying to gain size and strength - i guess i would say importance is 50/50

so for excersises what should my rep range be for 4 and 3 sets
ive been told for 4 sets

10 8 8 6 and 8 6 6 4
3 sets
10 8 6 and 8 6 4 ...

what is actually better for mass and strength gains? and does it change from liike chest to biceps (larger and smaller) ... and should i go to failure on every set for every muscle group?

Snake_Eyes · 06-27-2003, 02:20 PM

Focus on doing a heavy set of a compound movement first and foremost, something in the 3-5 rep range.

Afterwards, add other movements working in the 5-10 rep range.

I generally like to do more sets if I'm doing higher reps, and fewer sets if I'm going heavier on those movements.

Try staggering the rep ranges for the assistance movements. For example, for 2-3 weeks, work on 10 rep sets. Follow that with 5 rep sets, etc.

**gopro** · 06-27-2003, 04:15 PM

Start each bodypart workout with a compound movement for low reps. You can either use several warmup sets and then do 4 work sets of around 5, 4, 3, 2...or, use my preferred method which is to warm up and then go to my heaviest set first and then pyramid down, keeping the reps at around 4 per set.

After this, you can add 1-2 more movements, depending on the size of the bodypart, where you use reps in the 6-8-10 range.

An example for chest would be along the lines of...

-bench press...4 x 4
-incline dumbell press...3 x 6-8
-dumbell pullover...2-3 x 8-10

This will give you a nice combo of both size and strength.

**Prince** · 06-27-2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
Start each bodypart workout with a compound movement for low reps. You can either use several warmup sets and then do 4 work sets of around 5, 4, 3, 2...

agreed.

Quote:

..or, use my preferred method which is to warm up and then go to my heaviest set first and then pyramid down, keeping the reps at around 4 per set.

why descend/pyramid? this I do not really really agree with, I pyrmamid up, but once I get to my working sets (heaviest weight) I stop.

**gopro** · 06-27-2003, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
agreed.

why descend/pyramid? this I do not really really agree with, I pyrmamid up, but once I get to my working sets (heaviest weight) I stop.

Typical results of a pyramid of each type for a 300 lb bench presser...

UP-
-225 x 12
-245 x 7-8
-265 x 4-5
-285 x 1-2

DOWN-

-285 x 3-4
-265 x 6-7
-245 x 8-9
-225 x 12

Although this is not exact, it is an example of the way that a reverse pyramid will allow for more reps at higher weights. This equals more strength and more muscle. It works every time and NEVER fails at breaking a plateau that is reached by a "normal" pyramider.

MeanCuts · 06-27-2003, 05:57 PM

I've always liked the reverse pyramid style myself,but I alternate for variety

**Prince** · 06-28-2003, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
Although this is not exact, it is an example of the way that a reverse pyramid will allow for more reps at higher weights. This equals more strength and more muscle. It works every time and NEVER fails at breaking a plateau that is reached by a "normal" pyramider.

Hmmm...not sure I am following you here.

You're saying that doing higher reps will increase strength? How so?

Lighter weight/higher reps will stimulate more slow twitch fiber, thus increasing endurance, not sure how it would/could increase strength.

Please explain your logic here.

**gopro** · 06-28-2003, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
Hmmm...not sure I am following you here.

You're saying that doing higher reps will increase strength? How so?

Lighter weight/higher reps will stimulate more slow twitch fiber, thus increasing endurance, not sure how it would/could increase strength.

Please explain your logic here.

No, no, no...that is not the point. Lets say you want to train for strength only. So, you will keep your sets in the lower rep range. Ok, you are working the bench press in normal pyramid style. Here is how it might go...

-warmup...
-warmup...
-275 x 5
-290 x 3
-300 x 1-2
-310 x missed attempt

Now in reverse pyramid style...

-warmup
-warmup
-warmup
*each warmup is only 3 reps or so as we do not want to burn out the muscle, we just want to ready the nervous system for the movement and the weights to come
-315 x 1-2
-305 x 2-3
-290 x 3
-275 x 5

With the reverse pyramid you can go into your max attempt with far less fatigue and therefore lift heavier weight or the same weight for 1-3 more reps. Also, when people pyramid in a regular fashion, they tend to "hold back" on the lower sets in order to save energy for the max attempt...this doesn't happen with the RP.

Not only does this work better for strength training, but for hypertrophy as well.

Now there are certain times when this plan is contraindicated, like with a person with an injury that persists or for someone that does not have the psychological makeup to go to their heaviest weight first (and this does occur on occasion).

With the hundreds of people I have trained for bodybuilding, strength training, and sports specific, the reverse pyramid has proven far more successful than the standard P.

jadakris31 · 06-29-2003, 08:09 PM

so im confused now... well not confused just another question,...

so what kind of reps/sets would i want to do for JUST MASS and JUST STRENGTH

**gopro** · 06-30-2003, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jadakris31
so im confused now... well not confused just another question,...

so what kind of reps/sets would i want to do for JUST MASS and JUST STRENGTH

Regardless of how you pyramid, when you are training for strength you can stick to reps in the 3-5 range. When training for size you are best off in the 7-12 range most of the time.

jadakris31 · 06-30-2003, 06:25 AM

i see so your workout where you do
exersises reps
1 -- -- -- --- -- 3-5
2 6-8
3 8-10

hits both strength and mass ... so is this whole workout in the "reverse pyrmid" theory as well since you start off obviously with less weight?

**gopro** · 06-30-2003, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jadakris31
i see so your workout where you do
exersises reps
1 -- -- -- --- -- 3-5
2 6-8
3 8-10

hits both strength and mass ... so is this whole workout in the "reverse pyrmid" theory as well since you start off obviously with less weight?

Everything is done in reverse pyramid in my workouts.

jadakris31 · 06-30-2003, 03:37 PM

i see .. thanks alot but 2 more questions... today i did chest tri's

oi know i must not be as strong as most of you ubt

i did dumbell bench
65's for 4 sets i was going to go up but couldnt
reps were 8 7 6 6
then i did incline bar with 135
reps were 8 6 6 5

then some decline ... now i didnt pyramid at all.. so should i start higher (for reverse) or lower (for upwards pyramid) or should i work with just the one weight until i get stronger so i can pyrmid with better and bigger weights

**gopro** · 06-30-2003, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jadakris31
i see .. thanks alot but 2 more questions... today i did chest tri's

oi know i must not be as strong as most of you ubt

i did dumbell bench
65's for 4 sets i was going to go up but couldnt
reps were 8 7 6 6
then i did incline bar with 135
reps were 8 6 6 5

then some decline ... now i didnt pyramid at all.. so should i start higher (for reverse) or lower (for upwards pyramid) or should i work with just the one weight until i get stronger so i can pyrmid with better and bigger weights

Ok, lets try this. Pyramid up for your first exercise and then pyramid down for the next 1 or 2 exercises. So with chest here would be your workout with the same exercises...

-dumbell bench...50 x 12, 60 x 10, 65 x 6-8, 70 x 4-5
-incline press...150 x 4-5, 140 x 5-6, 130 x 6-7
-decline press...similar to incline press

On the first exercise you may need 2-3 warmup sets before your first "work" set, but on the next 2 exercises you should only need 1 warmup just to get used to the new movement.

jadakris31 · 06-30-2003, 07:12 PM

thanks alot, so pyramiding is , no matter which way - is better then using the same reasonably heavy weight

jadakris31 · 07-01-2003, 05:24 AM

and actually 1 more question still..... for chest i do week 1
dumbell flat
incline bar
then week 2--
bar flat
incline dumbell

is that a good idea or should i stick with all dumbells on one day and all bar?

**gopro** · 07-01-2003, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jadakris31
thanks alot, so pyramiding is , no matter which way - is better then using the same reasonably heavy weight

Hmmm, well, I don't want to make a blanket statement about pyramiding being better, but it works very well for most. The truth is that after about 8 weeks of using one type of approach you should switch to another to keep from getting stagnant.

As to your other question...I like the approach of using one bar movement and one dumbell movement.

iSlaNdEr bOy · 07-01-2003, 02:56 PM

sorry for asking a newbie question, but what do you guys mean by first working set?

**Prince** · 07-01-2003, 03:43 PM

working set = "real" set (not a warm-up or acclimation set)

iSlaNdEr bOy · 07-01-2003, 04:11 PM

so is it bad it don't do any warm up sets and go straight to your working sets?

**Prince** · 07-01-2003, 04:20 PM

yes, you need to do warm-up sets, and acclimation sets before working sets, it prevents injury.

06-27-2003, 11:24 AM	#1
jadakris31 jersey's here Join Date: May 2003 Location: nj Posts: 390 Photos: 1	rep range? im trying to gain size and strength - i guess i would say importance is 50/50 so for excersises what should my rep range be for 4 and 3 sets ive been told for 4 sets 10 8 8 6 and 8 6 6 4 3 sets 10 8 6 and 8 6 4 ... what is actually better for mass and strength gains? and does it change from liike chest to biceps (larger and smaller) ... and should i go to failure on every set for every muscle group?

06-27-2003, 04:15 PM	#3
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,499	Start each bodypart workout with a compound movement for low reps. You can either use several warmup sets and then do 4 work sets of around 5, 4, 3, 2...or, use my preferred method which is to warm up and then go to my heaviest set first and then pyramid down, keeping the reps at around 4 per set. After this, you can add 1-2 more movements, depending on the size of the bodypart, where you use reps in the 6-8-10 range. An example for chest would be along the lines of... -bench press...4 x 4 -incline dumbell press...3 x 6-8 -dumbell pullover...2-3 x 8-10 This will give you a nice combo of both size and strength.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. VPX Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

06-29-2003, 08:09 PM	#9
jadakris31 jersey's here Join Date: May 2003 Location: nj Posts: 390 Photos: 1	so im confused now... well not confused just another question,... so what kind of reps/sets would i want to do for JUST MASS and JUST STRENGTH
	somehow trying to get the abs but bulk at the same time.......

06-30-2003, 06:25 AM	#11
jadakris31 jersey's here Join Date: May 2003 Location: nj Posts: 390 Photos: 1	i see so your workout where you do exersises reps 1 -- -- -- --- -- 3-5 2 6-8 3 8-10 hits both strength and mass ... so is this whole workout in the "reverse pyrmid" theory as well since you start off obviously with less weight?
	somehow trying to get the abs but bulk at the same time.......

06-30-2003, 03:37 PM	#13
jadakris31 jersey's here Join Date: May 2003 Location: nj Posts: 390 Photos: 1	i see .. thanks alot but 2 more questions... today i did chest tri's oi know i must not be as strong as most of you ubt i did dumbell bench 65's for 4 sets i was going to go up but couldnt reps were 8 7 6 6 then i did incline bar with 135 reps were 8 6 6 5 then some decline ... now i didnt pyramid at all.. so should i start higher (for reverse) or lower (for upwards pyramid) or should i work with just the one weight until i get stronger so i can pyrmid with better and bigger weights
	somehow trying to get the abs but bulk at the same time.......

06-27-2003, 02:20 PM	#2
Snake_Eyes Real American Hero Join Date: May 2002 Location: Nevada Posts: 221	Focus on doing a heavy set of a compound movement first and foremost, something in the 3-5 rep range. Afterwards, add other movements working in the 5-10 rep range. I generally like to do more sets if I'm doing higher reps, and fewer sets if I'm going heavier on those movements. Try staggering the rep ranges for the assistance movements. For example, for 2-3 weeks, work on 10 rep sets. Follow that with 5 rep sets, etc.

06-27-2003, 05:57 PM	#6
MeanCuts Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: San Diego,CA Posts: 473	I've always liked the reverse pyramid style myself,but I alternate for variety

06-30-2003, 07:12 PM	#15
jadakris31 jersey's here Join Date: May 2003 Location: nj Posts: 390 Photos: 1	thanks alot, so pyramiding is , no matter which way - is better then using the same reasonably heavy weight
	somehow trying to get the abs but bulk at the same time.......

07-01-2003, 05:24 AM	#16
jadakris31 jersey's here Join Date: May 2003 Location: nj Posts: 390 Photos: 1	and actually 1 more question still..... for chest i do week 1 dumbell flat incline bar then week 2-- bar flat incline dumbell is that a good idea or should i stick with all dumbells on one day and all bar?
	somehow trying to get the abs but bulk at the same time.......

07-01-2003, 02:56 PM	#18
iSlaNdEr bOy wOrK iN pRoGrEsS Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: sAn DiEgO Posts: 128	sorry for asking a newbie question, but what do you guys mean by first working set?

07-01-2003, 03:43 PM	#19
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,520 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	working set = "real" set (not a warm-up or acclimation set)
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

07-01-2003, 04:11 PM	#20
iSlaNdEr bOy wOrK iN pRoGrEsS Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: sAn DiEgO Posts: 128	so is it bad it don't do any warm up sets and go straight to your working sets?

07-01-2003, 04:20 PM	#21
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,520 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	yes, you need to do warm-up sets, and acclimation sets before working sets, it prevents injury.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

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