Hand position on bar

Jvette73 · 08-04-2003, 06:42 PM

For flat benches and incline benches, whats the different effect on the different muscles when placing hand grip narrower or wider? Same question again for lat pulls and rows, whats the effect of various hand positions?

**P-funk** · 08-04-2003, 07:28 PM

The narrower the hand grip on bench press the more your triceps are recruited because you are able to get more elbow flexion on the eccentric wiich will lead to more elbow extension (which the triceps and anconeus do) than when your hands are wider. If you reverse your grip you are now doing a bench press in the sagital plane (sagital plane flexion of the shoulder) which works a slightly different musclulature than horizontal plane flexion (like bench press). Also, incline bench press in actually between to planes because of the bench angle. It is between horizontal flexion and frontal plane abduction so there is a slightly different musclulature being worked than during a regular bench press. Depending on the angle you will also be recruting more anterior delt.

For lat pulldowns varying grips are a bit different. A wide grip is going to be a lat oull down in the transverse plane of motion. This is shoulder adduction and elbow flexion. The muscles being worked at the shoulderr are latisimus dorsi, teres major, triceps brachii (long head), sterno costal portion of pectoralis moajor and biceps brachii(short head) and biceps brachii at the elbow.

If you take a close grip or a reverse grip on the lat bar you are now doing a pulling motion in the sagital plane. This is sagital plane extension for the shoulder and again elbow flexion. The muscles working on the shoulder are slightly different. They are lattisimus dorsi, terse major, triceps brschii (long head) and posterior deltoid.

These examples are ofcourse not going into the muscles which are acting upon the scapula during shoulder adduction and ssagital plane flexion. If you would like to know those please let me know.

peace,
Patrick

Jvette73 · 08-04-2003, 07:44 PM

Cool thanks for the response. Im asking because when I look in the mirror, to mee it looks like I need to consentrate more of a workout on my biceps and triceps. Chest, shoulders and upper back look good. Usually ive been taking a wider grip. After reading your response am I correct in assuming that a narrower grip will generally give my bi's and tri's a better workout?

**P-funk** · 08-04-2003, 07:53 PM

A narrower grip on the bech will hit the tris a bit more.

As far as the bi's go, when you are doing pull downs you really want to work your back as much as possible. On trick that you can do, wich I do for some of my male clients that want bigger bi's, is I pre fatigue them by using a reverse grip pull down and not allowing them to extend their arms all the way up. By doing this the tension stays more concentrated on the bi's, unfortuatly this is how most people do pull downs anyway because the wieght is ussually to heavy for them to extend all the way up and then pull straight down, allowing for proper scapula-humeral rythm. So partials like that can really fry the bi's. Barbell curls are the best though, in my opinion because they keep your forearms in a completly supinated position. Also, you can try incline dumbell curls. This works well because you are placing your shoulder in extension. The long head of the bicep, the bicep brachii, is the only one of the three bicep heads wich crosses the shoulder. It performs sagital plane flexion so naturally be placing your shoulder in extenion it will strech that muscle to an optimal length. Placing this kind of stress on the muscle and performing a curl can be very effective.

Jvette73 · 08-04-2003, 08:43 PM

Thanks again. I dont have much problem with lat pulls. Im pretty strong in that department. Strong enough that I have to strap myself to the bench due to the weight im pulling. I try to keep it all muscle work and not cheat by throwing my body back to get the weight moving. Ill focus on some preacher curls and one arms directly after the lat pulls to burn the bi's. I need some bigger dumbells, 30 is as high as i got now and they aint enough anymore. Another way im doing curls is in a standing position using the low pulley. That seems to work good as the resistance stays equal thruought the pull. Not like dumbell curls that cam back when you get closeer to the top.

**P-funk** · 08-04-2003, 08:52 PM

Right, the low pully is a great alternative and a comp[letely different stimulus that a regular barbell curl. Now gravity is reacting on a stack of plates being pulled off the ground instead of a dumbell being lifted. The resistance is more constant with the pully because with the du,bell or barbell when your arm becomes parallel with the ground you are at the biggest disadvange because in that position the lever arm (your arm) is at its greatest length causing a greater gravitation pull on the resistance (the weight in your hand). If you knew the distance that you bicep attached past your elbow (ie 1 or 2 inches etc..) I could tell you excatley how much force you would need to generate in order to curl that dumbell.

Great observation....now you are thinking more biomechanically....I like it.

08-04-2003, 06:42 PM	#1
Jvette73 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Severna Park Md Posts: 40	Hand position on bar For flat benches and incline benches, whats the different effect on the different muscles when placing hand grip narrower or wider? Same question again for lat pulls and rows, whats the effect of various hand positions?

08-04-2003, 07:28 PM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,425	The narrower the hand grip on bench press the more your triceps are recruited because you are able to get more elbow flexion on the eccentric wiich will lead to more elbow extension (which the triceps and anconeus do) than when your hands are wider. If you reverse your grip you are now doing a bench press in the sagital plane (sagital plane flexion of the shoulder) which works a slightly different musclulature than horizontal plane flexion (like bench press). Also, incline bench press in actually between to planes because of the bench angle. It is between horizontal flexion and frontal plane abduction so there is a slightly different musclulature being worked than during a regular bench press. Depending on the angle you will also be recruting more anterior delt. For lat pulldowns varying grips are a bit different. A wide grip is going to be a lat oull down in the transverse plane of motion. This is shoulder adduction and elbow flexion. The muscles being worked at the shoulderr are latisimus dorsi, teres major, triceps brachii (long head), sterno costal portion of pectoralis moajor and biceps brachii(short head) and biceps brachii at the elbow. If you take a close grip or a reverse grip on the lat bar you are now doing a pulling motion in the sagital plane. This is sagital plane extension for the shoulder and again elbow flexion. The muscles working on the shoulder are slightly different. They are lattisimus dorsi, terse major, triceps brschii (long head) and posterior deltoid. These examples are ofcourse not going into the muscles which are acting upon the scapula during shoulder adduction and ssagital plane flexion. If you would like to know those please let me know. peace, Patrick
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

08-04-2003, 07:53 PM	#4
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,425	A narrower grip on the bech will hit the tris a bit more. As far as the bi's go, when you are doing pull downs you really want to work your back as much as possible. On trick that you can do, wich I do for some of my male clients that want bigger bi's, is I pre fatigue them by using a reverse grip pull down and not allowing them to extend their arms all the way up. By doing this the tension stays more concentrated on the bi's, unfortuatly this is how most people do pull downs anyway because the wieght is ussually to heavy for them to extend all the way up and then pull straight down, allowing for proper scapula-humeral rythm. So partials like that can really fry the bi's. Barbell curls are the best though, in my opinion because they keep your forearms in a completly supinated position. Also, you can try incline dumbell curls. This works well because you are placing your shoulder in extension. The long head of the bicep, the bicep brachii, is the only one of the three bicep heads wich crosses the shoulder. It performs sagital plane flexion so naturally be placing your shoulder in extenion it will strech that muscle to an optimal length. Placing this kind of stress on the muscle and performing a curl can be very effective.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

08-04-2003, 08:52 PM	#6
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,425	Right, the low pully is a great alternative and a comp[letely different stimulus that a regular barbell curl. Now gravity is reacting on a stack of plates being pulled off the ground instead of a dumbell being lifted. The resistance is more constant with the pully because with the du,bell or barbell when your arm becomes parallel with the ground you are at the biggest disadvange because in that position the lever arm (your arm) is at its greatest length causing a greater gravitation pull on the resistance (the weight in your hand). If you knew the distance that you bicep attached past your elbow (ie 1 or 2 inches etc..) I could tell you excatley how much force you would need to generate in order to curl that dumbell. Great observation....now you are thinking more biomechanically....I like it.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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08-04-2003, 07:44 PM	#3
Jvette73 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Severna Park Md Posts: 40	Cool thanks for the response. Im asking because when I look in the mirror, to mee it looks like I need to consentrate more of a workout on my biceps and triceps. Chest, shoulders and upper back look good. Usually ive been taking a wider grip. After reading your response am I correct in assuming that a narrower grip will generally give my bi's and tri's a better workout?

08-04-2003, 08:43 PM	#5
Jvette73 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Severna Park Md Posts: 40	Thanks again. I dont have much problem with lat pulls. Im pretty strong in that department. Strong enough that I have to strap myself to the bench due to the weight im pulling. I try to keep it all muscle work and not cheat by throwing my body back to get the weight moving. Ill focus on some preacher curls and one arms directly after the lat pulls to burn the bi's. I need some bigger dumbells, 30 is as high as i got now and they aint enough anymore. Another way im doing curls is in a standing position using the low pulley. That seems to work good as the resistance stays equal thruought the pull. Not like dumbell curls that cam back when you get closeer to the top.

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