the need to do squats....

pood · 08-11-2003, 07:43 PM

I know it's a really important, but last year, I went to a knee specialist (supposely one of hte best in seattle), and he said I shouldn't do squats, power cleans, or dead lifts!

actually anything that will stress my knees is bad, so that also includes lunges.

is it totally nesessary to do those excercises?

I'm each looking for a bigger upper body, not really worried about my lower body, actually want to make it smaller, espically my thighs and my ass.

he also said i shoudn't do leg extensions, but I can do them fine.

Same goes for power cleans, and deadlifts

when I use to do squats, after a couple workouts, my right knee hurts whenever I bend it past 90 degress. I've been doing straigh left raises the past month or so because thats what the speicalist told me to do, because my leg isn't completely straight, and when i do squats my knees crack, scares the crap out of me.

so what should i do? haven't lifted the last 2 month or so because of school and work, but this week is the last and I'm goign to cut my hours down soon also, so I'm ready to get back to the gym.

gr81 · 08-11-2003, 07:57 PM

First of all ,you should go to a sports doctor, someone that has experience with athletes b/c frankly Drs for the most part, do not know shit about training or anything about bodybuilding for that matter. Many Drs don't even know the difference between Anabolic steriods and catabolic steroids. I can quote many drs as saying creatine is bad for you and to stay away from it, I have even heard the some badmouth protien!! I can tell you that this guy is full of shit and you should not listen to him. Squatting strengthens the tendons inthe knees of performed correctly. These are all great compound movements that I recommend all lifters, especially beginners should do. It is true that they can be dangerous IF performed incorrectly with too much weight, but if you get down the form of each exercise they will be great for you, barring any pre existing injuries you may have.

Hey Pood, where in Seattle are you?

oaktownboy · 08-11-2003, 08:05 PM

sorry dawg but ur doctor is full of shit Bodybuilding is about putting pressure on the joints. For example:squat, bench press, deadlift, bent over rows. Building muscle involves going heavy.Going heavy=big time pressure!~

pood · 08-11-2003, 08:28 PM

alright, ill take a note of that

he gave a name for it, osgood something, ive got it written down some where, the problem is, after doing a lot of squats, my knee starts to hurt, actually, i think i've already had knee problems, since i was a kid, hurts like hell for a long time, when i drink soda pop, and stand up for a long time (espcially while at work), so that was one of the reasons why i rarely drink pop, but if i stretch, i dun have the problem, i can make it better by running hot water over my knees or just keeping it real warm, its weird.

gr81:

i'm at shoreline err Lake Forest Park actually

i've always been working out at school (Shorecrest) or up at the WWU gym, but now I'm doing some of my courses at Shorelien Community College next year, I've got to get gym membership, 24 hours is freakign expensive, and theres really isnt a Golds gym close, pretty $$ too, and the gym at shoreline is pathetic.

i found one on Lake City, its $18/month, the gym from the outside looks pretty good, but I'll see next when i try them out, dun have the name of the gym on top of my head, it starts with N or M

where are u? UW? oo, that the other alternatives, i can workout at the UW...but thats like a 30 min drive

gr81 · 08-11-2003, 09:31 PM

I am up in the lynnwood/mountlake terrace area. there is a Golds Gym semi close to you up on aurora/99 nect to Oaktree cinema, that is pretty close to shoreline. Un fortuately I train at 24 hr in lynnwood, I hate it thou. There aren't many gyms up here that impress me.

pood · 08-11-2003, 09:52 PM

yeah, i know, maybe ill try that

i know because there this chinese restaurant that ate at a couple of times thats right across street from golds gym

everytime i eat, i stare straight across at the joggers on the treadmills, heh

but hope i dun have to go there, if this $18/gym is good, its closer to me anyways

infinity · 08-11-2003, 11:52 PM

Osgood Shlatter? My brother has/had that. It's like front of knee, upper shin pain. It's what happens when you grow too fast.

gr81 · 08-12-2003, 01:26 AM

I have a friend that had the same condition

pood · 08-12-2003, 01:50 AM

yeah, thats it

just some cartilage damage

Freeman · 08-12-2003, 07:07 AM

It is a growing pains condition basically. I had it when I was like 12-13. Not to worry, it goes away. If you have goals, you can achieve them safely. Sure, there are risks, but there are bigger risks just walking out the door of your house, ya know? And, what are your stats? Because you say you want a big upper body, but not so much with your lower body. If you get huge up top but have chicken legs, that will look really silly and lame.

rburton · 08-12-2003, 08:34 AM

See a sports medicine physician, as recommended by other posts. I've had similar problems, but it was from arthritis. Squats and deadlifts have actually been beneficial, even though my knees crack and pop when doing them.

ponyboy · 08-12-2003, 11:25 AM

Osgood Schlatter's disease is common in young people who lift and/or run or use their legs a lot (soccer players, etc.).

However, it is a legitimate problem because basically it is affecting your knee capsule. For some info link here:

http://www.athleticadvisor.com/Injur...schlatters.htm

You're fine to keep working your legs, especially with squats, but you have to make sure your form is correct and avoid explosive movement so that the area doesn't get any worse. I'd lay off of heavy squats for a little while. Any explosive movement involving the lower body should also be avoided.

pood · 08-12-2003, 02:18 PM

i had the pains 2 years ago, thats when i stopped doing squats, it was all bulging, but now i don't have it anymore

but my knee cap cracks everytime, im just afraid that it'll come back if i do squats again, i've just been doing straight leg raises to rehab it

Freeman · 08-12-2003, 04:08 PM

it won't come back if it's been gone for two years..you've grown out of it..cracking knees is no big deal, as long as it's not a painful cracking.

OceanDude · 08-12-2003, 04:43 PM

I'll second the idea to get with a good sports doctor. You just don't want to take chances on the knees or your quality of life is going to suck and it will make you very bitter as you age when you can't do things because you took some amateur’s advice and got into some kind of arthritic condition or worse as a result of inflaming the joint. It would not surprise me if the specialist advises you to do some resistance training to help the condition – but you need to know specifically what range of motion and in what planes to apply the forces. Only a qualified specialist can tell you this.

rburton · 08-12-2003, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OceanDude
I'll second the idea to get with a good sports doctor. You just don't want to take chances on the knees or your quality of life is going to suck and it will make you very bitter as you age when you can't do things because you took some amateur’s advice and got into some kind of arthritic condition or worse as a result of inflaming the joint. It would not surprise me if the specialist advises you to do some resistance training to help the condition – but you need to know specifically what range of motion and in what planes to apply the forces. Only a qualified specialist can tell you this.

Well put. Arthritis can be irritating, but strength training does help to manage it.

pood · 08-12-2003, 05:53 PM

but last year, i did do leg presses, and didn't have the paid like 2 years ago, i was looking at arnold's book, and i think i might try machine presses when i get back to gym next month.

it seems that my legs crack only when the bar is not completely parallel with my feet

well, my weight training teacher back in high school told me to do half squats, haven't tried that either

i dunno how my parents are gonna take it, might have to do this on my own since i just costed them 300 bucks to correct my neck at the chiropractor while sparring in brazilian juijitsu (which they told me not to do)

OceanDude · 08-12-2003, 06:07 PM

well pood, you need to learn parent physchology 101 and turn it around on them. Explain to them how much it will cost them later if you don't get it all right now. Also, explain that the sooner you can be more active the sooner you can make more additional income to help pay for things. Then start talking about how you might want to be a star college power lifter or athlete and want to get a scholarship and someday go pro and send money home to mom and dad. Be fore long you will have them paying you to work out if you know how to play your hand right

pood · 08-12-2003, 06:10 PM

hi, hear this

my parents think WHEY PROTEIN is bad for hte body

and weight lifting is bad for me lol

more great thinkings from communist china (where they're from)

im originally from there, but i came when i was 7

Freeman · 08-12-2003, 06:15 PM

is it that they're commies, or that they're chinese?

I like Marx, call me a pinko!

OceanDude · 08-12-2003, 06:23 PM

ho ho - this is interesting.

OK - it's still all a matter of "selling your ideas". What your parents want is to be proud of their son - this is like honoring them. So you must respect their cultural beliefs - after all there is something to that yin and yang stuff that Western doctors just don't get yet. So try to understand their perspectives and also realize that China has a very rich cultural history that is based on philosophies about health and well being that are a just a little different in perspective but based on thousands of years of insight. Strength and physical size were not considered important in ancient China (perhaps bacause it it focused on the "individual" rather than "society" and becuase it requires disproportionate amounts of food and considered greedy).

Remind them of the famous Chinese basketball player Yao Mingand how tall and strong he is and how China is coming of age. Take it from there...

**Mudge** · 08-12-2003, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pood
more great thinkings from communist china (where they're from)

They were using steroids on the female swim team were they not? How is protein going to be bad for you? Alot of asians are used to consuming tons of rice, not much protein, so I can see this maybe.

Old fashioned people though are going to frown upon anything new that they dont understand probably, even younger people will likewise pass judgement on things they often know little to nothing about.

08-11-2003, 07:43 PM	#1
pood Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 166	the need to do squats.... I know it's a really important, but last year, I went to a knee specialist (supposely one of hte best in seattle), and he said I shouldn't do squats, power cleans, or dead lifts! actually anything that will stress my knees is bad, so that also includes lunges. is it totally nesessary to do those excercises? I'm each looking for a bigger upper body, not really worried about my lower body, actually want to make it smaller, espically my thighs and my ass. he also said i shoudn't do leg extensions, but I can do them fine. Same goes for power cleans, and deadlifts when I use to do squats, after a couple workouts, my right knee hurts whenever I bend it past 90 degress. I've been doing straigh left raises the past month or so because thats what the speicalist told me to do, because my leg isn't completely straight, and when i do squats my knees crack, scares the crap out of me. so what should i do? haven't lifted the last 2 month or so because of school and work, but this week is the last and I'm goign to cut my hours down soon also, so I'm ready to get back to the gym.
	ASDF!

08-11-2003, 07:57 PM	#2
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	First of all ,you should go to a sports doctor, someone that has experience with athletes b/c frankly Drs for the most part, do not know shit about training or anything about bodybuilding for that matter. Many Drs don't even know the difference between Anabolic steriods and catabolic steroids. I can quote many drs as saying creatine is bad for you and to stay away from it, I have even heard the some badmouth protien!! I can tell you that this guy is full of shit and you should not listen to him. Squatting strengthens the tendons inthe knees of performed correctly. These are all great compound movements that I recommend all lifters, especially beginners should do. It is true that they can be dangerous IF performed incorrectly with too much weight, but if you get down the form of each exercise they will be great for you, barring any pre existing injuries you may have. Hey Pood, where in Seattle are you?
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

08-11-2003, 08:05 PM	#3
oaktownboy Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: smog and fog Posts: 4,392	sorry dawg but ur doctor is full of shit Bodybuilding is about putting pressure on the joints. For example:squat, bench press, deadlift, bent over rows. Building muscle involves going heavy.Going heavy=big time pressure!~
	Chuck Norris once lost his keys and couldn't remember where he put them. So he tortured himself for half an hour until he gave up their location.

08-11-2003, 08:28 PM	#4
pood Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 166	alright, ill take a note of that he gave a name for it, osgood something, ive got it written down some where, the problem is, after doing a lot of squats, my knee starts to hurt, actually, i think i've already had knee problems, since i was a kid, hurts like hell for a long time, when i drink soda pop, and stand up for a long time (espcially while at work), so that was one of the reasons why i rarely drink pop, but if i stretch, i dun have the problem, i can make it better by running hot water over my knees or just keeping it real warm, its weird. gr81: i'm at shoreline err Lake Forest Park actually i've always been working out at school (Shorecrest) or up at the WWU gym, but now I'm doing some of my courses at Shorelien Community College next year, I've got to get gym membership, 24 hours is freakign expensive, and theres really isnt a Golds gym close, pretty $$ too, and the gym at shoreline is pathetic. i found one on Lake City, its $18/month, the gym from the outside looks pretty good, but I'll see next when i try them out, dun have the name of the gym on top of my head, it starts with N or M where are u? UW? oo, that the other alternatives, i can workout at the UW...but thats like a 30 min drive
	ASDF!

08-11-2003, 09:31 PM	#5
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	I am up in the lynnwood/mountlake terrace area. there is a Golds Gym semi close to you up on aurora/99 nect to Oaktree cinema, that is pretty close to shoreline. Un fortuately I train at 24 hr in lynnwood, I hate it thou. There aren't many gyms up here that impress me.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

08-11-2003, 09:52 PM	#6
pood Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 166	yeah, i know, maybe ill try that i know because there this chinese restaurant that ate at a couple of times thats right across street from golds gym everytime i eat, i stare straight across at the joggers on the treadmills, heh but hope i dun have to go there, if this $18/gym is good, its closer to me anyways
	ASDF!

08-11-2003, 11:52 PM	#7
infinity Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 19	Osgood Shlatter? My brother has/had that. It's like front of knee, upper shin pain. It's what happens when you grow too fast.
infinity Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 19

08-12-2003, 01:26 AM	#8
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	I have a friend that had the same condition
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

08-12-2003, 01:50 AM	#9
pood Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 166	yeah, thats it just some cartilage damage
	ASDF!

08-12-2003, 07:07 AM	#10
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	It is a growing pains condition basically. I had it when I was like 12-13. Not to worry, it goes away. If you have goals, you can achieve them safely. Sure, there are risks, but there are bigger risks just walking out the door of your house, ya know? And, what are your stats? Because you say you want a big upper body, but not so much with your lower body. If you get huge up top but have chicken legs, that will look really silly and lame.
	www.kingsburymusic.net

08-12-2003, 08:34 AM	#11
rburton The Searcher Join Date: May 2003 Location: NC Posts: 129	See a sports medicine physician, as recommended by other posts. I've had similar problems, but it was from arthritis. Squats and deadlifts have actually been beneficial, even though my knees crack and pop when doing them.

08-12-2003, 11:25 AM	#12
ponyboy Training Trainer Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Running around somewhere Posts: 2,608 Photos: 1	Osgood Schlatter's disease is common in young people who lift and/or run or use their legs a lot (soccer players, etc.). However, it is a legitimate problem because basically it is affecting your knee capsule. For some info link here: http://www.athleticadvisor.com/Injur...schlatters.htm You're fine to keep working your legs, especially with squats, but you have to make sure your form is correct and avoid explosive movement so that the area doesn't get any worse. I'd lay off of heavy squats for a little while. Any explosive movement involving the lower body should also be avoided.
	Today I can do what others will not so that tomorrow I will do what others cannot. The difference between winners and losers is that winners do things that losers don't want to do.

08-12-2003, 02:18 PM	#13
pood Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 166	i had the pains 2 years ago, thats when i stopped doing squats, it was all bulging, but now i don't have it anymore but my knee cap cracks everytime, im just afraid that it'll come back if i do squats again, i've just been doing straight leg raises to rehab it
	ASDF!

08-12-2003, 04:08 PM	#14
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	it won't come back if it's been gone for two years..you've grown out of it..cracking knees is no big deal, as long as it's not a painful cracking.
	www.kingsburymusic.net

08-12-2003, 04:43 PM	#15
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	I'll second the idea to get with a good sports doctor. You just don't want to take chances on the knees or your quality of life is going to suck and it will make you very bitter as you age when you can't do things because you took some amateur’s advice and got into some kind of arthritic condition or worse as a result of inflaming the joint. It would not surprise me if the specialist advises you to do some resistance training to help the condition – but you need to know specifically what range of motion and in what planes to apply the forces. Only a qualified specialist can tell you this.
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

08-12-2003, 05:53 PM	#17
pood Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 166	but last year, i did do leg presses, and didn't have the paid like 2 years ago, i was looking at arnold's book, and i think i might try machine presses when i get back to gym next month. it seems that my legs crack only when the bar is not completely parallel with my feet well, my weight training teacher back in high school told me to do half squats, haven't tried that either i dunno how my parents are gonna take it, might have to do this on my own since i just costed them 300 bucks to correct my neck at the chiropractor while sparring in brazilian juijitsu (which they told me not to do)
	ASDF!

08-12-2003, 06:07 PM	#18
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	well pood, you need to learn parent physchology 101 and turn it around on them. Explain to them how much it will cost them later if you don't get it all right now. Also, explain that the sooner you can be more active the sooner you can make more additional income to help pay for things. Then start talking about how you might want to be a star college power lifter or athlete and want to get a scholarship and someday go pro and send money home to mom and dad. Be fore long you will have them paying you to work out if you know how to play your hand right
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

08-12-2003, 06:10 PM	#19
pood Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 166	hi, hear this my parents think WHEY PROTEIN is bad for hte body and weight lifting is bad for me lol more great thinkings from communist china (where they're from) im originally from there, but i came when i was 7
	ASDF!

08-12-2003, 06:15 PM	#20
Freeman Bearded Attacker Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,648 Photos: 8	is it that they're commies, or that they're chinese? I like Marx, call me a pinko!
	www.kingsburymusic.net

08-12-2003, 06:23 PM	#21
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	ho ho - this is interesting. OK - it's still all a matter of "selling your ideas". What your parents want is to be proud of their son - this is like honoring them. So you must respect their cultural beliefs - after all there is something to that yin and yang stuff that Western doctors just don't get yet. So try to understand their perspectives and also realize that China has a very rich cultural history that is based on philosophies about health and well being that are a just a little different in perspective but based on thousands of years of insight. Strength and physical size were not considered important in ancient China (perhaps bacause it it focused on the "individual" rather than "society" and becuase it requires disproportionate amounts of food and considered greedy). Remind them of the famous Chinese basketball player Yao Mingand how tall and strong he is and how China is coming of age. Take it from there...
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

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