Body fat lowering?

ProtoFuze · 08-13-2003, 02:16 PM

Well, lately I've been really trying to lower my bodyfat but keep gaining size. I've got about average, maybe a bit above average muscle mass for my age (17) and I was doing tons of cardio, 60 minutes at a medium pace for 6 days a week, and then some HIT, but I read that doing this can really destroy lean muscle mass, which I don't want to do. I'm trying to get that defined, shredded look all over, and have not much fat anywhere, except most of it is on my entire lower abdominal area, all away around the obliques and to the back just above my butt, and then some above the lower middle part of my pecs, so they don't go flat. When it comes to clothes and stuff, the excess BF pushes out a bit over the sides of my jeans, doesn't hang, just sticks out a bit. Workouts for each body part I do twice a week, one heavy, one light, and then some HIT, 6 sets of 40 sec sprints and 20 sec jog.
I stay away from sugary foods, eat mostly lean ground beef, chicken breast, and steak, lots of veggies, one grapefruit a day, green tea, sometimes, corn flakes or granola cereal with 1% milk, and then just protein powder, and lots of water! I keep carbs between 80-100g, and take in about 1200-1500 cals, and have to eat about every hour and a half or so (I know it's sposed to be aobut ever 2-3 hours, but even with decent sized small meals, they burn of quickly or something when I'm jsut walking or hanging out, and I get hungry again.)

Long long question short

can anyone give me tips on what I can do about this? I really wanna get rid of the fat around, my lower abs, obliques, and lower back sides and chest, and just lower my BF overall, but especially those parts above, they just really, embarass me when swimming and stuff, lol. I'm at 177 pounds right now, and have about 135 lbs of lean muscle mass approximatley and wanna raise that but get the fat away, so muscles can be seen and it just looks, less embarassing. Thanks alot for any help, I really appreciate it!!

dymas · 08-13-2003, 02:46 PM

ProtoFuze -

you gotta eat more than that!

1200 kcals and you are 177?!

That's way way under 10 kcals per lbs. which is considered really low in terms of cutting diets. Your body is more than likely going into starvation mode and retaining even more fat. At your age (or any age for that matter) this is NOT a good idea and will NOT help you lose fat any faster.

Why don't you post your current diet in meal-by-meal format in the "Diet and Nutrition" forum and the folks there can help you with a more reasonably diet. If you continue with this one you will seriously impact your gains and probably affect your growth...

I promise you that eating more (good stuff...not junk food

) won't make you gain more weight...it will help you lose it. Starvation is not the answer my friend.

ProtoFuze · 08-13-2003, 02:52 PM

Sheesh, thanks alot, I wasn't even trying to starve myself, jsut eat healthier, thanks for the information, I'll do that!

OceanDude · 08-13-2003, 03:38 PM

Yup you are way low on caloric intake - you can safely pull in at leat 2100 cals per day and lose weight at that body weight. BAsed on my calculations you are at about 24% bf. How tall are you? At your age you should be able to burn that fat off by just walking around the block every day for a month and outgrow it with weight training.

ProtoFuze · 08-13-2003, 03:40 PM

OceanDude-I'm within an inch or less of 6 feet and if it helps any I posted my diet in the Diet and Nutrition forums. Thanks

OceanDude · 08-13-2003, 03:45 PM

Damn you should be like a greek god at that height and weight. You may be insulin insensitive or pre-diabetic (don't mean to alarm you). Make sure that you are eating slow carbs for most of your meals (except post workout). Do you get "sleepy" after eating often?

ProtoFuze · 08-13-2003, 03:49 PM

I think your right with the diabetic thing maybe, I have a tendency to get a little sick when not taking in certain things, I can't remember the exact things. I had some surgery awhile back on the pituitary gland and there have been some side effects. Anyhow, yeah, if I eat often I get really sleepy, I try to get about 9 hours on holidays, get to bed a bit late but sleep till about 11 or so. By the way are slow carbs foods like oatmeal, whole wheat bread, etc? Thanks alot again

OceanDude · 08-13-2003, 03:57 PM

Yes - low glycemic index carbs are "slow carbs". They tend to be unprocessed and unrefined with little sugar. Oatmeal, whole wheat stone ground bread you got it.

If you have slim wrists (if you can pinch your pointer finger and thumb around your wrists) then I suspect you are very much like me - a ectomorphic/mesomorphic. It's actually amazing how many ectomorphs (usually have fast metabolisms and not as massive in muscular as a mesomorph) are "fat". It is like a contradiction but it is more common than people realize. This is almost always diet related or insulin/hormonal related. I am slowly beating mine (currently 10% bf).

The good news is resistance training is an excellent way to reverse insulin insensitivity. The bad news is it can be very hard to balance the blood sugar in the interim. Probably the single best thing you can do is continue to eat frequent but SMALL meals (no more than 400-500 cals at a time) so that insulin swings are not needed to shuttle excess energy/sugar into fat.
You have to learn your body and how it responds to foods and stress etc. You are on a good start here. If you are really a smaller guy like I think you are your body does not have tremendous amounts of glcogen storage available to store the excess calories - so think small but frequent eating.

ProtoFuze · 08-13-2003, 04:02 PM

Thanks for all the good information, my wrists are somewhat small too actually, I cannot do it with the pointer finger, but my middle finger and thumb wrap right around to just touch. But it helps to take in a little bit of sugar but not to much, I know it spikes insulin levels and gets that fat going. If just keeping low cal small meals every hour or so should help, and then just go at it in the gym, what about cardio?

OceanDude · 08-13-2003, 04:06 PM

I have come into the "not too much cardio" but a lot of HIIT camp. I only do one long time period cardio per week (45 minutes) but do intense HIIT after every workout for only 12 minutes (only 4 minutes of actual intensity cycles).

I recommend that you also get to the doctor and ask him to check your hormone levels, insulin sensitivity etc. especially since you had that glandular issue. It should be covered by insurance.

ProtoFuze · 08-13-2003, 04:07 PM

Will do, with your HIIT, how long do you go for sprinting, and do you use the elliptical?

ruggaz · 08-13-2003, 04:21 PM

I follow OD's HIIT! Its good.

4 minutes warm up (steady pace)
10 second sprint and 20 second jog (X 8) = 4 mins
4 minutes warm down (steady pace)
= 12 minutes
Also, when you become fitter and more adaptedto HIIT you can swap it too be 20 seconds sprint and 10 seconds job etc

Also i advise stretching when doing HIIT, if you get into a full sprint and your muscles arnt loose, chances are you could pull something.

Stick with it, its not easy but it pays off.

Good Luck

OceanDude · 08-13-2003, 04:39 PM

I do 4 minutes slow jog warm up slowly increasing my step/glide rate in the elliptical machine (about intensity level 11-13) and high incline.

Then I do 20 sec all out sprint and 10 sec slow jog to catch my breath. I repeat this cycle 8 times for a total of 4 intense minutes.
After the 3rd cycle/interval your heart rate should be about 90-95% of theoretical max.

Then I cool down at a slow jog for 4 minutes.

I have also used 15-20 minutes of 30 sec sprint 30 sec jog after a 5 minute accelerating step rate warm up.

dymas · 08-13-2003, 05:04 PM

Wow - great info OD! Protofuze you should be well on your way!

Don't worry about being embarrased...the fat will come off and you'll be stronger than ever. Just realize it might take a little while...I know that's disheartening but it will be worth it in the end.

ProtoFuze · 08-14-2003, 09:59 PM

Thanks alot all of you

And I'll be starting a journal soon Dymas, thanks for the idea.

08-13-2003, 02:16 PM	#1
ProtoFuze Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 71	Body fat lowering? Well, lately I've been really trying to lower my bodyfat but keep gaining size. I've got about average, maybe a bit above average muscle mass for my age (17) and I was doing tons of cardio, 60 minutes at a medium pace for 6 days a week, and then some HIT, but I read that doing this can really destroy lean muscle mass, which I don't want to do. I'm trying to get that defined, shredded look all over, and have not much fat anywhere, except most of it is on my entire lower abdominal area, all away around the obliques and to the back just above my butt, and then some above the lower middle part of my pecs, so they don't go flat. When it comes to clothes and stuff, the excess BF pushes out a bit over the sides of my jeans, doesn't hang, just sticks out a bit. Workouts for each body part I do twice a week, one heavy, one light, and then some HIT, 6 sets of 40 sec sprints and 20 sec jog. I stay away from sugary foods, eat mostly lean ground beef, chicken breast, and steak, lots of veggies, one grapefruit a day, green tea, sometimes, corn flakes or granola cereal with 1% milk, and then just protein powder, and lots of water! I keep carbs between 80-100g, and take in about 1200-1500 cals, and have to eat about every hour and a half or so (I know it's sposed to be aobut ever 2-3 hours, but even with decent sized small meals, they burn of quickly or something when I'm jsut walking or hanging out, and I get hungry again.) Long long question short can anyone give me tips on what I can do about this? I really wanna get rid of the fat around, my lower abs, obliques, and lower back sides and chest, and just lower my BF overall, but especially those parts above, they just really, embarass me when swimming and stuff, lol. I'm at 177 pounds right now, and have about 135 lbs of lean muscle mass approximatley and wanna raise that but get the fat away, so muscles can be seen and it just looks, less embarassing. Thanks alot for any help, I really appreciate it!!

08-13-2003, 03:38 PM	#4
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	Yup you are way low on caloric intake - you can safely pull in at leat 2100 cals per day and lose weight at that body weight. BAsed on my calculations you are at about 24% bf. How tall are you? At your age you should be able to burn that fat off by just walking around the block every day for a month and outgrow it with weight training.
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

08-13-2003, 03:45 PM	#6
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	Damn you should be like a greek god at that height and weight. You may be insulin insensitive or pre-diabetic (don't mean to alarm you). Make sure that you are eating slow carbs for most of your meals (except post workout). Do you get "sleepy" after eating often?
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

08-13-2003, 03:57 PM	#8
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	Yes - low glycemic index carbs are "slow carbs". They tend to be unprocessed and unrefined with little sugar. Oatmeal, whole wheat stone ground bread you got it. If you have slim wrists (if you can pinch your pointer finger and thumb around your wrists) then I suspect you are very much like me - a ectomorphic/mesomorphic. It's actually amazing how many ectomorphs (usually have fast metabolisms and not as massive in muscular as a mesomorph) are "fat". It is like a contradiction but it is more common than people realize. This is almost always diet related or insulin/hormonal related. I am slowly beating mine (currently 10% bf). The good news is resistance training is an excellent way to reverse insulin insensitivity. The bad news is it can be very hard to balance the blood sugar in the interim. Probably the single best thing you can do is continue to eat frequent but SMALL meals (no more than 400-500 cals at a time) so that insulin swings are not needed to shuttle excess energy/sugar into fat. You have to learn your body and how it responds to foods and stress etc. You are on a good start here. If you are really a smaller guy like I think you are your body does not have tremendous amounts of glcogen storage available to store the excess calories - so think small but frequent eating.
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

08-13-2003, 04:06 PM	#10
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	I have come into the "not too much cardio" but a lot of HIIT camp. I only do one long time period cardio per week (45 minutes) but do intense HIIT after every workout for only 12 minutes (only 4 minutes of actual intensity cycles). I recommend that you also get to the doctor and ask him to check your hormone levels, insulin sensitivity etc. especially since you had that glandular issue. It should be covered by insurance.
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

08-13-2003, 02:46 PM	#2
dymas Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: sunshine state.... Posts: 81	ProtoFuze - you gotta eat more than that! 1200 kcals and you are 177?! That's way way under 10 kcals per lbs. which is considered really low in terms of cutting diets. Your body is more than likely going into starvation mode and retaining even more fat. At your age (or any age for that matter) this is NOT a good idea and will NOT help you lose fat any faster. Why don't you post your current diet in meal-by-meal format in the "Diet and Nutrition" forum and the folks there can help you with a more reasonably diet. If you continue with this one you will seriously impact your gains and probably affect your growth... I promise you that eating more (good stuff...not junk food ) won't make you gain more weight...it will help you lose it. Starvation is not the answer my friend.

08-13-2003, 02:52 PM	#3
ProtoFuze Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 71	Sheesh, thanks alot, I wasn't even trying to starve myself, jsut eat healthier, thanks for the information, I'll do that!

08-13-2003, 03:40 PM	#5
ProtoFuze Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 71	OceanDude-I'm within an inch or less of 6 feet and if it helps any I posted my diet in the Diet and Nutrition forums. Thanks

08-13-2003, 03:49 PM	#7
ProtoFuze Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 71	I think your right with the diabetic thing maybe, I have a tendency to get a little sick when not taking in certain things, I can't remember the exact things. I had some surgery awhile back on the pituitary gland and there have been some side effects. Anyhow, yeah, if I eat often I get really sleepy, I try to get about 9 hours on holidays, get to bed a bit late but sleep till about 11 or so. By the way are slow carbs foods like oatmeal, whole wheat bread, etc? Thanks alot again

08-13-2003, 04:02 PM	#9
ProtoFuze Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 71	Thanks for all the good information, my wrists are somewhat small too actually, I cannot do it with the pointer finger, but my middle finger and thumb wrap right around to just touch. But it helps to take in a little bit of sugar but not to much, I know it spikes insulin levels and gets that fat going. If just keeping low cal small meals every hour or so should help, and then just go at it in the gym, what about cardio?

08-13-2003, 04:07 PM	#11
ProtoFuze Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 71	Will do, with your HIIT, how long do you go for sprinting, and do you use the elliptical?

08-13-2003, 04:21 PM	#12
ruggaz Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 88	I follow OD's HIIT! Its good. 4 minutes warm up (steady pace) 10 second sprint and 20 second jog (X 8) = 4 mins 4 minutes warm down (steady pace) = 12 minutes Also, when you become fitter and more adaptedto HIIT you can swap it too be 20 seconds sprint and 10 seconds job etc Also i advise stretching when doing HIIT, if you get into a full sprint and your muscles arnt loose, chances are you could pull something. Stick with it, its not easy but it pays off. Good Luck
ruggaz Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 88

08-13-2003, 04:39 PM	#13
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	I do 4 minutes slow jog warm up slowly increasing my step/glide rate in the elliptical machine (about intensity level 11-13) and high incline. Then I do 20 sec all out sprint and 10 sec slow jog to catch my breath. I repeat this cycle 8 times for a total of 4 intense minutes. After the 3rd cycle/interval your heart rate should be about 90-95% of theoretical max. Then I cool down at a slow jog for 4 minutes. I have also used 15-20 minutes of 30 sec sprint 30 sec jog after a 5 minute accelerating step rate warm up.
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

08-13-2003, 05:04 PM	#14
dymas Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: sunshine state.... Posts: 81	Wow - great info OD! Protofuze you should be well on your way! Don't worry about being embarrased...the fat will come off and you'll be stronger than ever. Just realize it might take a little while...I know that's disheartening but it will be worth it in the end.

08-14-2003, 09:59 PM	#15
ProtoFuze Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 71	Thanks alot all of you And I'll be starting a journal soon Dymas, thanks for the idea.

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