how does this look

swordfish · 08-22-2003, 11:07 AM

chest, tris, shoulders)_Monday- 5x5 flat bench
3x8 flyes
3x10 skull crushers
3x8 overhead press

Bis, back) Wednesday- 3x8 bb curl
3x4 hammer curl
3x8 bent rows
3x8 pull ups

Legs, abs, traps_) Friday- 1x20 squats
3x12 calf raises
3x100 crunches
3x10 shoulder shrugs

then next week i might do db curls instead and maybe incline flyes instead of flat and then i might do leg press instead of squat. how does this look? too much or too little?

naturalguy · 08-22-2003, 11:50 AM

2 questions:

Why are you doing 20 reps for squats?

Why are you doing 100 reps for abs?

swordfish · 08-22-2003, 12:31 PM

20 rep squats. THe best way for complete hypertrophy in the whole body. take your 12 RM and do 20. your thinking wtf but you go for 20 and if you make it up the weight. I learned this from someone and have heard nothing but success from this. I dont know how many reps for abs, so i pick 100.

Triple Threat · 08-22-2003, 12:58 PM

On Wed, do pullups and rows before curls. Work larger muscles before the smaller ones.

4 reps per set for hammer curls? Why?

1 set for quads? Might be a little light, even if it is a 20-rep set.

Overall, the volume seems a little low, but that's just my opinion.

swordfish · 08-22-2003, 01:31 PM

ive always heard to go with heavy hammer curls. For quads, believe me with 1 set. next time you work legs, do 1 set of 20 and take your 12 RM and do it. you wont be able to move. That right there is plenty enough for legs. You might even get sick from those 20 reps, but its worth the growth.

gr81 · 08-22-2003, 02:11 PM

this isn't nearly enough swordfish, yoyu must be in and out of the gym in 20 min with that. You need to throw in a few more compound movements in with each day. You only have one exercise for the tris and 1 for shoulders, no way that is enough. The back is a huge muscle, you ain't gonna tax it with 1 exercise, C'mon. And 1 set for the legs, you must be joking, I do a high rep set like that on the squat as part of a warm up. Usually I am telling people that they are overtraining but you are undertraining.
try adding a few more exercise to increase the volume. If you need suggestions let me know.

sawheet · 08-22-2003, 02:36 PM

Sword,..... son you need allot of work!! You need to kill one, maybe two body parts per day! i can help i just need some sort of schedule, and goals

rburton · 08-22-2003, 03:46 PM

Why not apply your squat protocol to the rest of your training? Granted, you will use fewer reps (6-10), but by taking each set to failure, you will make some substantial gains. If you were to apply this protocol totally, you would only perform 2-3 sets per bodypart, however.

swordfish · 08-22-2003, 04:17 PM

ok guys, design a program then. help me with what i have now.

naturalguy · 08-22-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by swordfish
20 rep squats. THe best way for complete hypertrophy in the whole body. take your 12 RM and do 20. your thinking wtf but you go for 20 and if you make it up the weight. I learned this from someone and have heard nothing but success from this. I dont know how many reps for abs, so i pick 100.

20 reps squats might "feel" tough but that does not neccessarily equate growth. If you can do an exercise with 20 reps, it is not enough resistance.

As far as the abs, 100 reps is too many, the abdominal muscles are have the same tissue as your biceps, you can go SLIGHTLY higher reps on abs like 10-12 reps but 100 is not enough resistance, you cannot spot reduce.

gr81 · 08-22-2003, 07:18 PM

He is right, high rep sets only recruit certain muscle fibers, you gotta go heavy, especially with the squat. Don't you think everybody would have big legs if that was all you had to do? Legs take alot more than that man.
Pick a few solid compound movements that you can work to heavy weight in for each bodypart. You are 15 I see, stick to building the foundation, and that is done by heavy compound movements. squats, deads, powercleans, presses, and so on. You have gotta increase your intensity in the gym, don't just go in there and go through the movements, that is useless. Focus and make sure what you are doing has a purpose and you aren't just winging it in there.

rburton · 08-23-2003, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by naturalguy
20 reps squats might "feel" tough but that does not neccessarily equate growth. If you can do an exercise with 20 reps, it is not enough resistance.

As far as the abs, 100 reps is too many, the abdominal muscles are have the same tissue as your biceps, you can go SLIGHTLY higher reps on abs like 10-12 reps but 100 is not enough resistance, you cannot spot reduce.

Many trainers, including myself, have had substantial strength and size gains from a 20-rep squat program. I have yet to meet anyone who has not made signifcant gains from this program, so long as they are applying the principles correctly.

swordfish · 08-23-2003, 03:38 PM

can you help me with a decent program then? tell me what i need to add for back and legs, tris, etc. I like the monday wednesday and friday workout so go that with those days to workout.

swordfish · 08-23-2003, 07:04 PM

these are my goals, this might help in designing a program for me. I would like to add serious size to my forearms and my legs,lats and tris, then i want to be cut up and defined in my back and forearms. Im looking to get about 10 lbs heavier and just get ripped. Could anyone help me with a program for me?

gr81 · 08-23-2003, 08:23 PM

You understand that you can't get ripped (burn fat) and add mass at the same time right, just to see that is understood, you need to start lifting with heavy movements. Pick a few certain movements for each BP and work your weight up in whatever excercises you choose. Keep it simple
example:
Chest, Shoulders, tris : Incline/decline/Flat B-bell bench, military press, heavy dips, parrellel weighted dips, DB bench, upright rows, heavy DB flys, close grip bench, reverse grip press, overhead db press, Behind the neck raises-DB or b-bell, Skull krushers, clean and press.

Back n Bis: Deadlifts, powerclean, snatch, bent over Rows, 1 arm DB Rows, wide grip pull ups, pulldowns, DBpullover, seated cable rows, B-bell curls, db curls, hammer curls, incline reversed db curls, preacher curls-Db or b-bell.

Quads, Hams, n Calves: Squat- a must, front squats, lunges, legg press, hack squat, stiff legged deads, quad extension, iso leg curls, seated and standing calf raises, legg press calf raises, donkey calf raises, lower cable ham extension, Glute ham raise, weighted step up, all types of plyometrics including sprints.

Keep in mind those are just examples of exercises that you could pick if you wanted to do 3 WO a week like you said. By no means are these all the exercises for each muscle, nor are they necessarily the ones you should be doing, except squatting. There are MANY more that you can take advantage, I just tried to give you an idea of some basic heavy movements that you can do. You should not do every exercise i listed in one training session. Pick one or two heavy movements, prefferably ones that do not recruit the same muscles fibers but instead hit the muscle a bit differently. After you pick some heavier movements, pick a few lighter movements that you can use to supplement the heavier ones by isolating a certain part of the muscle, use them in conjuction with each other. Almost all of those movements can be changed with different grip, or stance, or can be used to isolate one side of the body, or whatever else you want to so with them. This allows variety to be immplemented in your routine without even changing the exercise. Like I said though, you are young and you just need to build the foundation of the house before you start detailing it, right. Learn the movements and the correct way to perform them, then work your weight up, and most importantly , ...EAT EAT EAT. Hope that helps a little.

swordfish · 08-23-2003, 09:03 PM

so how does this look, i do 2 exercises for each body part. Could you tell me how many reps and sets are good for getting cut vs. mass and getting big? are these tricep exercises good for power or more of the lines of looking good? i just want a program too look good, i dont care about how much weight i do.

Monday - 5x5 bench
3x8 flyes
3x10 skull crushers
3x10 dips
Wednesday- 3x8 bent rows
3x10 pull ups
3x10 curls
3x12 db curls
Friday - 3x10 squats
3x10 leg press
crunches
3x10 bb overhead press
3x10 db press

gr81 · 08-23-2003, 11:56 PM

still too llittle IMO. Stay with higher reps and work your way down the rep scheme, bump up the set volume as well. Getting cut doesn't happen in the gym, it happens in the klitchen with the diet.

**Mudge** · 08-24-2003, 12:19 AM

Why no incline presses? You do just as much for biceps as you do for the back? Does that make sense to you?

swordfish · 08-24-2003, 12:40 AM

well, tell me what else i can add for my back and why it is not enough. Use that program that i have there and add stuff or subract stuff. Make the sets and reps how you think they should look. Take my program and mess it up to where it looks good to you guys.

heavyweight1987 · 08-24-2003, 04:57 PM

are you workin out to get stronger or to get cut up????

Skib · 08-24-2003, 05:52 PM

i don't understand why you only have 4 exercises per day

i do at least 10

as previously mentioned, you must be in and out of the gym within 20 minutes with that routine... try going for at least an hour-hour and a half...

heavyweight1987 · 08-24-2003, 06:34 PM

yall do some long workouts the longest i ever go is 45min but i usually do the main excercises!!

swordfish · 08-24-2003, 07:42 PM

ok, now im starting to get confused. i thought it was 2 exercises per bodypart, not 5? 6 sets for each muscle group. 8 for the bigger ones. its not how long you workout for, but how much work you do. increase intensity, not volume is one of weiders principles. this isnt an endurance event. it would be dumb to go into the gym for a couple hours and workout. i thought it was 2 or 3 different exercises for each bodypart. sounds like you guys are overtraining with 10.

swordfish · 08-24-2003, 07:52 PM

ok...... this is what i have come up with now. how is this???? 3 exercises, this seems like a good program. anyone disagree now that i have modified it???

Monday - 5x5 bench
3x10 incline bench
3x8 flyes
3x10 skull crushers
3x10 dips
2x8 kickbacks

Wednesday- 3x8 bent rows
3x10 1 arm db row
3x10 pull ups
3x12 reverse db curls
3x10 curls
3x12 db curls

Friday - 3x10 squats
3x10 leg press
3x12 calf raises
crunches
3x10 bb overhead press
3x10 db press
3x10 upright rows

**P-funk** · 08-24-2003, 07:59 PM

what about something like stiff leg deadlifts on friday??

rburton · 08-25-2003, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by swordfish
ok, now im starting to get confused. i thought it was 2 exercises per bodypart, not 5? 6 sets for each muscle group. 8 for the bigger ones. its not how long you workout for, but how much work you do. increase intensity, not volume is one of weiders principles. this isnt an endurance event. it would be dumb to go into the gym for a couple hours and workout. i thought it was 2 or 3 different exercises for each bodypart. sounds like you guys are overtraining with 10.

You're right about either working hard or working long, but some people can handle higher volume than others. The workout you have posted would be too much volume for me but would be fine for others. You will need to experiment to determine how well you recover from different volume levels.

One suggestion, however, would be to reduce the number of sets that your performing for the accessory movements. For instance, instead of three sets for curls, perform only two sets. Also, once you have trained within this rep range for 6-8 weeks, change it, which gr81 alluded to in one of his posts.

08-22-2003, 11:07 AM	#1
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	how does this look chest, tris, shoulders)_Monday- 5x5 flat bench 3x8 flyes 3x10 skull crushers 3x8 overhead press Bis, back) Wednesday- 3x8 bb curl 3x4 hammer curl 3x8 bent rows 3x8 pull ups Legs, abs, traps_) Friday- 1x20 squats 3x12 calf raises 3x100 crunches 3x10 shoulder shrugs then next week i might do db curls instead and maybe incline flyes instead of flat and then i might do leg press instead of squat. how does this look? too much or too little?

08-22-2003, 11:50 AM	#2
naturalguy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: New York Posts: 489	2 questions: Why are you doing 20 reps for squats? Why are you doing 100 reps for abs?
	www.animalpak.com www.universalnutrition.com

08-22-2003, 02:11 PM	#6
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	this isn't nearly enough swordfish, yoyu must be in and out of the gym in 20 min with that. You need to throw in a few more compound movements in with each day. You only have one exercise for the tris and 1 for shoulders, no way that is enough. The back is a huge muscle, you ain't gonna tax it with 1 exercise, C'mon. And 1 set for the legs, you must be joking, I do a high rep set like that on the squat as part of a warm up. Usually I am telling people that they are overtraining but you are undertraining. try adding a few more exercise to increase the volume. If you need suggestions let me know.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

08-22-2003, 02:36 PM	#7
sawheet JB'Os THONG Elite Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,137 Photos: 8	Sword,..... son you need allot of work!! You need to kill one, maybe two body parts per day! i can help i just need some sort of schedule, and goals
	Climb high, climb far; your goal the sky, your aim, the stars

08-22-2003, 07:18 PM	#11
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	He is right, high rep sets only recruit certain muscle fibers, you gotta go heavy, especially with the squat. Don't you think everybody would have big legs if that was all you had to do? Legs take alot more than that man. Pick a few solid compound movements that you can work to heavy weight in for each bodypart. You are 15 I see, stick to building the foundation, and that is done by heavy compound movements. squats, deads, powercleans, presses, and so on. You have gotta increase your intensity in the gym, don't just go in there and go through the movements, that is useless. Focus and make sure what you are doing has a purpose and you aren't just winging it in there.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

08-22-2003, 12:31 PM	#3
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	20 rep squats. THe best way for complete hypertrophy in the whole body. take your 12 RM and do 20. your thinking wtf but you go for 20 and if you make it up the weight. I learned this from someone and have heard nothing but success from this. I dont know how many reps for abs, so i pick 100.

08-22-2003, 12:58 PM	#4
Triple Threat ... Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lost Posts: 9,490 Photos: 6	On Wed, do pullups and rows before curls. Work larger muscles before the smaller ones. 4 reps per set for hammer curls? Why? 1 set for quads? Might be a little light, even if it is a 20-rep set. Overall, the volume seems a little low, but that's just my opinion.

08-22-2003, 01:31 PM	#5
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	ive always heard to go with heavy hammer curls. For quads, believe me with 1 set. next time you work legs, do 1 set of 20 and take your 12 RM and do it. you wont be able to move. That right there is plenty enough for legs. You might even get sick from those 20 reps, but its worth the growth.

08-22-2003, 03:46 PM	#8
rburton The Searcher Join Date: May 2003 Location: NC Posts: 129	Why not apply your squat protocol to the rest of your training? Granted, you will use fewer reps (6-10), but by taking each set to failure, you will make some substantial gains. If you were to apply this protocol totally, you would only perform 2-3 sets per bodypart, however.

08-22-2003, 04:17 PM	#9
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	ok guys, design a program then. help me with what i have now.

08-23-2003, 03:38 PM	#13
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	can you help me with a decent program then? tell me what i need to add for back and legs, tris, etc. I like the monday wednesday and friday workout so go that with those days to workout.

08-23-2003, 07:04 PM	#14
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	these are my goals, this might help in designing a program for me. I would like to add serious size to my forearms and my legs,lats and tris, then i want to be cut up and defined in my back and forearms. Im looking to get about 10 lbs heavier and just get ripped. Could anyone help me with a program for me?

08-23-2003, 08:23 PM	#15
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	You understand that you can't get ripped (burn fat) and add mass at the same time right, just to see that is understood, you need to start lifting with heavy movements. Pick a few certain movements for each BP and work your weight up in whatever excercises you choose. Keep it simple example: Chest, Shoulders, tris : Incline/decline/Flat B-bell bench, military press, heavy dips, parrellel weighted dips, DB bench, upright rows, heavy DB flys, close grip bench, reverse grip press, overhead db press, Behind the neck raises-DB or b-bell, Skull krushers, clean and press. Back n Bis: Deadlifts, powerclean, snatch, bent over Rows, 1 arm DB Rows, wide grip pull ups, pulldowns, DBpullover, seated cable rows, B-bell curls, db curls, hammer curls, incline reversed db curls, preacher curls-Db or b-bell. Quads, Hams, n Calves: Squat- a must, front squats, lunges, legg press, hack squat, stiff legged deads, quad extension, iso leg curls, seated and standing calf raises, legg press calf raises, donkey calf raises, lower cable ham extension, Glute ham raise, weighted step up, all types of plyometrics including sprints. Keep in mind those are just examples of exercises that you could pick if you wanted to do 3 WO a week like you said. By no means are these all the exercises for each muscle, nor are they necessarily the ones you should be doing, except squatting. There are MANY more that you can take advantage, I just tried to give you an idea of some basic heavy movements that you can do. You should not do every exercise i listed in one training session. Pick one or two heavy movements, prefferably ones that do not recruit the same muscles fibers but instead hit the muscle a bit differently. After you pick some heavier movements, pick a few lighter movements that you can use to supplement the heavier ones by isolating a certain part of the muscle, use them in conjuction with each other. Almost all of those movements can be changed with different grip, or stance, or can be used to isolate one side of the body, or whatever else you want to so with them. This allows variety to be immplemented in your routine without even changing the exercise. Like I said though, you are young and you just need to build the foundation of the house before you start detailing it, right. Learn the movements and the correct way to perform them, then work your weight up, and most importantly , ...EAT EAT EAT. Hope that helps a little.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

08-23-2003, 09:03 PM	#16
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	so how does this look, i do 2 exercises for each body part. Could you tell me how many reps and sets are good for getting cut vs. mass and getting big? are these tricep exercises good for power or more of the lines of looking good? i just want a program too look good, i dont care about how much weight i do. Monday - 5x5 bench 3x8 flyes 3x10 skull crushers 3x10 dips Wednesday- 3x8 bent rows 3x10 pull ups 3x10 curls 3x12 db curls Friday - 3x10 squats 3x10 leg press crunches 3x10 bb overhead press 3x10 db press

08-23-2003, 11:56 PM	#17
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	still too llittle IMO. Stay with higher reps and work your way down the rep scheme, bump up the set volume as well. Getting cut doesn't happen in the gym, it happens in the klitchen with the diet.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

08-24-2003, 12:19 AM	#18
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,075 Photos: 1	Why no incline presses? You do just as much for biceps as you do for the back? Does that make sense to you?
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

08-24-2003, 07:59 PM	#25
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,643	what about something like stiff leg deadlifts on friday??
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

08-24-2003, 12:40 AM	#19
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	well, tell me what else i can add for my back and why it is not enough. Use that program that i have there and add stuff or subract stuff. Make the sets and reps how you think they should look. Take my program and mess it up to where it looks good to you guys.

08-24-2003, 04:57 PM	#20
heavyweight1987 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: tennessee Posts: 127	are you workin out to get stronger or to get cut up????
	bench:275 squat:550+ split leg deadlift:500+ im 15 215 never takin any suppliments just now starting tho.

08-24-2003, 05:52 PM	#21
Skib Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 533	i don't understand why you only have 4 exercises per day i do at least 10 as previously mentioned, you must be in and out of the gym within 20 minutes with that routine... try going for at least an hour-hour and a half...

08-24-2003, 06:34 PM	#22
heavyweight1987 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: tennessee Posts: 127	yall do some long workouts the longest i ever go is 45min but i usually do the main excercises!!
	bench:275 squat:550+ split leg deadlift:500+ im 15 215 never takin any suppliments just now starting tho.

08-24-2003, 07:42 PM	#23
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	ok, now im starting to get confused. i thought it was 2 exercises per bodypart, not 5? 6 sets for each muscle group. 8 for the bigger ones. its not how long you workout for, but how much work you do. increase intensity, not volume is one of weiders principles. this isnt an endurance event. it would be dumb to go into the gym for a couple hours and workout. i thought it was 2 or 3 different exercises for each bodypart. sounds like you guys are overtraining with 10.

08-24-2003, 07:52 PM	#24
swordfish Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oregon Posts: 500	ok...... this is what i have come up with now. how is this???? 3 exercises, this seems like a good program. anyone disagree now that i have modified it??? Monday - 5x5 bench 3x10 incline bench 3x8 flyes 3x10 skull crushers 3x10 dips 2x8 kickbacks Wednesday- 3x8 bent rows 3x10 1 arm db row 3x10 pull ups 3x12 reverse db curls 3x10 curls 3x12 db curls Friday - 3x10 squats 3x10 leg press 3x12 calf raises crunches 3x10 bb overhead press 3x10 db press 3x10 upright rows

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