Is an incline bench position ok for military presses?

eidolon · 09-10-2003, 09:47 AM

When doing a miltary press I find it much more comfortable to have the bench on the second last incline position just before 90 degrees. Does this take much emphasis off of the shoulders? I'm able to lift more this way and wondering if it's a more efficient way to overload.

**Prince** · 09-10-2003, 11:04 AM

that's fine, but honestly you are better off standing, believe it or not standing will put less pressure on your back than sitting.

Tha Don · 09-10-2003, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
that's fine, but honestly you are better off standing, believe it or not standing will put less pressure on your back than sitting.

really??

i do them sitting with no back support and i struggle to keep technique, balance and it hurts my back. I'll definatly try them standing

shall i do them with a twist (palms facing inwards when by my head and palms forward when extended, or just the standard palms facing forward at all times? whats the difference? I see people do both)

**P-funk** · 09-10-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by young d

really??

i do them sitting with no back support and i struggle to keep technique, balance and it hurts my back. I'll definatly try them standing

shall i do them with a twist (palms facing inwards when by my head and palms forward when extended, or just the standard palms facing forward at all times? whats the difference? I see people do both)

Prince is right, standing up while doing millitary press will decrease the amount of compression if the cervical spine. Also, when people sit and get fatigued they typically hyperextend their back to help push them up. This can lead to a posterior tilt if you extend enough and put your lower back in a very vulnerable position for injury.

About the palms:

If you do the exercise with a supinated grip (your palms would be facing you) you are placing this movement in the sagital plane. There is a different musculature being worked here than when performing a normal millitary press with a prone grip (palms facing away from you). The exercise with palsm facing you is sagital plane flexion. The muscles at the shoulder joint being worked here are the anterior deltoid, clavicular portion of pectorallis major, biceps brachii and coraco brachiallis. On a normall millitary press you are working in the frontal plane, creating shoulder abduction. The musclature at the shoulder joint now is the deltiod (all heads, with an emphasis on the anterior deltiod), the supraspinatius (one of the four rotator cuff muscles, which is most active during the first 10-20% of shoulder abduction) and the long head of biceps brachii also assists in abduciton.

Do both of them to make sure that you are strong in both planes of motion.

peace,
Patrick

Jim1954 · 09-10-2003, 04:52 PM

Glad this topic came up, I have been doing my presses
seated too.

What do you think of Arnold presses?

**P-funk** · 09-10-2003, 05:06 PM

Arnold presses are a good choice for the shoulder because of the form of the exercise. You are starting with a supinated grip (palms facing you) and ending with a prone grip (palms facing away from you). This means that as you are pressing up you are adding some internal rotation to the movement. The muscles that interanally rotate the shoulder are anterior deltiod, pectrallis major, latisimus dorsi and teres major, biceps brachii (long head) and subscapularis (one of the rotator cuff muscles).

Also try doing front dumbell raises with internal rotaition.....start with the dumbell at your sides and a neutral grip (palms facing your legs). then as you raise up rotate your palms to a facing down position (internally rotating at the shoulder).

Jim1954 · 09-10-2003, 05:12 PM

P-funk,

Thanks for info, and tip on the dumbell raises.

**P-funk** · 09-10-2003, 05:16 PM

No problem

Tha Don · 09-11-2003, 12:28 PM

Hey P Funk, thanks for that as well! wow you know your stuff

I'll do a few of them standing arnold presses after the machine press to help hit more parts of my shoulder

Is the front dumbell raises with a twist better than just the standard one where they face down they whole movement? And shall I do 1 hand at a time or both together?

Will they help me get that cut in my arm (between my shoulder and my tricep? I really want that) if not what can I do to get that?

**P-funk** · 09-11-2003, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by young d
Hey P Funk, thanks for that as well! wow you know your stuff

I'll do a few of them standing arnold presses after the machine press to help hit more parts of my shoulder

Is the front dumbell raises with a twist better than just the standard one where they face down they whole movement? And shall I do 1 hand at a time or both together?

Will they help me get that cut in my arm (between my shoulder and my tricep? I really want that) if not what can I do to get that?

One way is not better than another....all variations are great ways to progress yourself and prevent adaptation. they are just another tool to use.....I would highly encourage you to try and do them with one arm at a time, also alternating arms and recipricoal (while one arm goes down the other goes up). These three variations are great for overloading our central nervous system and preventing a training plateau.

Cuts are going to come from diet......A specific exercise is not going to make you cut.

Tha Don · 09-12-2003, 04:04 AM

Burner02 · 09-12-2003, 05:54 AM

I tried standing..I didn't like the feeling on my back that way....ust stand shoulder width apart?

**P-funk** · 09-12-2003, 07:23 AM

Some stand with their feet shoulder width apart...I like my feet together.....others stand in a staggered stance in order to increase their base of support in the sagital plane......It may feel weird on your back because you are arching a bit to much in order to get the bar around your head. Try and take a slightly narrower grip.....this will allow you to move the bar around your head with out bending your back so much.

**Dale Mabry** · 09-12-2003, 09:33 AM

If you have rotator cuff issues I would try to avoid internal rotation on the front raise.

The closer your feet are together on the standing shoulder press, the more balance will be an issue. If you are training for performance enhancement to the balance (vestibular) system, start with the widest base you can and bring them in as you become more comfortable with the movement. I will tell you what, most bodybuilders do not train for balance, but I tell you what, if you have a stronger core and better balance, you will be able to train with much heavier weights than you normally would.

**P-funk** · 09-12-2003, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
If you have rotator cuff issues I would try to avoid internal rotation on the front raise.

The closer your feet are together on the standing shoulder press, the more balance will be an issue. If you are training for performance enhancement to the balance (vestibular) system, start with the widest base you can and bring them in as you become more comfortable with the movement. I will tell you what, most bodybuilders do not train for balance, but I tell you what, if you have a stronger core and better balance, you will be able to train with much heavier weights than you normally would.

Burner02 · 09-15-2003, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by P-funk
Some stand with their feet shoulder width apart...I like my feet together.....others stand in a staggered stance in order to increase their base of support in the sagital plane......It may feel weird on your back because you are arching a bit to much in order to get the bar around your head. Try and take a slightly narrower grip.....this will allow you to move the bar around your head with out bending your back so much.

thanks, will try next delt day!

09-10-2003, 09:47 AM	#1
eidolon Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12	Is an incline bench position ok for military presses? When doing a miltary press I find it much more comfortable to have the bench on the second last incline position just before 90 degrees. Does this take much emphasis off of the shoulders? I'm able to lift more this way and wondering if it's a more efficient way to overload.
eidolon Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 12

09-10-2003, 11:04 AM	#2
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 34,003 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	that's fine, but honestly you are better off standing, believe it or not standing will put less pressure on your back than sitting.
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09-10-2003, 04:52 PM	#5
Jim1954 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 149 Photos: 3	Glad this topic came up, I have been doing my presses seated too. What do you think of Arnold presses?
	Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. Yogi Berra

09-10-2003, 05:06 PM	#6
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,643	Arnold presses are a good choice for the shoulder because of the form of the exercise. You are starting with a supinated grip (palms facing you) and ending with a prone grip (palms facing away from you). This means that as you are pressing up you are adding some internal rotation to the movement. The muscles that interanally rotate the shoulder are anterior deltiod, pectrallis major, latisimus dorsi and teres major, biceps brachii (long head) and subscapularis (one of the rotator cuff muscles). Also try doing front dumbell raises with internal rotaition.....start with the dumbell at your sides and a neutral grip (palms facing your legs). then as you raise up rotate your palms to a facing down position (internally rotating at the shoulder).
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

09-10-2003, 05:12 PM	#7
Jim1954 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 149 Photos: 3	P-funk, Thanks for info, and tip on the dumbell raises.
	Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. Yogi Berra

09-10-2003, 05:16 PM	#8
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,643	No problem
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

09-11-2003, 12:28 PM	#9
Tha Don Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 3,826 Photos: 33	Hey P Funk, thanks for that as well! wow you know your stuff I'll do a few of them standing arnold presses after the machine press to help hit more parts of my shoulder Is the front dumbell raises with a twist better than just the standard one where they face down they whole movement? And shall I do 1 hand at a time or both together? Will they help me get that cut in my arm (between my shoulder and my tricep? I really want that) if not what can I do to get that?

09-12-2003, 04:04 AM	#11
Tha Don Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 3,826 Photos: 33

09-12-2003, 05:54 AM	#12
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tip of the spear! Posts: 28,324	I tried standing..I didn't like the feeling on my back that way....ust stand shoulder width apart?
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09-12-2003, 07:23 AM	#13
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,643	Some stand with their feet shoulder width apart...I like my feet together.....others stand in a staggered stance in order to increase their base of support in the sagital plane......It may feel weird on your back because you are arching a bit to much in order to get the bar around your head. Try and take a slightly narrower grip.....this will allow you to move the bar around your head with out bending your back so much.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

09-12-2003, 09:33 AM	#14
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,883 Photos: 10	If you have rotator cuff issues I would try to avoid internal rotation on the front raise. The closer your feet are together on the standing shoulder press, the more balance will be an issue. If you are training for performance enhancement to the balance (vestibular) system, start with the widest base you can and bring them in as you become more comfortable with the movement. I will tell you what, most bodybuilders do not train for balance, but I tell you what, if you have a stronger core and better balance, you will be able to train with much heavier weights than you normally would.
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