Squats & Deadlifts Same Day?

pghkid3 · 10-03-2003, 01:32 PM

Can u do squats and deadlifts together on your leg day?
I read that deadlifts mainly works the lower back, erector spinae muscle. The rest of the back exercises such as lat pulldowns and bent over rows mainly work the lats so your would not really be working the same muscles twice if you did deadlifts separately from the rest of your back.

gr81 · 10-03-2003, 01:37 PM

you CAN do whatever you want, I wouldn't reccommmend it though. Either way you slice it your lower back will be pre exhausted for one of the exercises and you want all the links in yor chain strong, other wise there will be an imbalance in the lift and other muscles will be forced to make up for it. That is assuming that you will be going intense and heavy on each of course. IMO you are best to split them up, hell alot of people don't even do each in teh same week.

pghkid3 · 10-03-2003, 01:40 PM

thx for the reply. What if I do stiff legged deadlifts, then could I do it with squats?

**P-funk** · 10-03-2003, 02:50 PM

I like to do my stiff leg deadlifts on leg day with my squats. Sometimes I will substitute the stiff leg deads with sumo deadlifts on leg day because I feel they are a bit easier on the lower back and hit the adductors a lite more.

I like to put my deadlifts (aka romanian deadlifts) in on back day. The main movement of the deadlift is hip extension, knee extension, plantar flexion and some spinal extension, at the top of the movement. The erectors really come into play though as you are pulling form the bottom of the movment, as well as the traps.

I agree with gr81 that it is hard to do them in the same day because the lower back will be to fatigued. It is for this very reason that I always leave at least one day inbetween the days I train legs and back. Just to make sure my lower back, and hamstrings are completely rested.

peace,
patrick

pghkid3 · 10-03-2003, 02:54 PM

Ok thanks man

Stroyer · 10-07-2003, 05:20 PM

I must be the oddball then, I always now train quads and lower back together.

Heavy squats bring into play the lower back to a great degree.

When I was doing lower back with upper back and then doing quads / hams on a different day, I found my lower back was just not recovering 100% between workouts.

I had been stuck at a shitty as dead for years, then on the advice of a PL I started training deads with quads, and I am now pulling my lbs than I ever have in my life!!

At first is a pretty demanding workout, but after a few initial sessions it becomes second nature...

I am not TELLING anyone to try it, BUT if your dead and OR squat has been in a rut, try grouping quads and deads on the same day for a month and see how things go, my bet is both lifts will go up significantly.

gr81 · 10-07-2003, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stroyer
I am not TELLING anyone to try it, BUT if your dead and OR squat has been in a rut, try grouping quads and deads on the same day for a month and see how things go, my bet is both lifts will go up significantly.

Too big of an injury risk IMO, not a good idea. You may not realize it but once you prefatigued your lower back doing the dead, other muscles will be forced to deal with more stress during the squat and visa versa, your form will be sacrificed, even a little bit and that can add up over time. You have to play it safe with the lower back, too easy to injure it, and it can be a career ending injury! you say that you plateaued and your lower back wasn't recovering in time and to solve that you just put more stress on your back in a smaller frame of time! sounds pretty stupid to me, how about gicing your back MORE time to recover between lifts, not less?

Stroyer · 10-07-2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gr81
you just put more stress on your back in a smaller frame of time! sounds pretty stupid to me, how about gicing your back MORE time to recover between lifts, not less?

How am I giving my back LESS time to recover, I am training my lower back both directly(deads) and indirectly(squats) once per rotation vs training lower back directly one day and then squats(indirectly) a seperate day = 2 seperate days per rotation lower back is worked to some degree vs one day per rotation doing squats/deads same session.

Sure I am doing more in a workout basis, but over all the days between ANY lower back (direct or indirect) work are more, so more recovery days.

And to even my suprise my initial thought was my lower back would be weaker after squats, but in fact even on the initial few workouts my dead strength was stronger then when trained with upper back seperate from squats.

I am not IMO pre-fatigued my lower back from squats, if a persons lower back comes into play that much when they are squatting to prefatigue to that degree then I would questions the persons form on squats, if Anything it is ensuring my lower back is completely warmed up prior to the deads.

My post was simply to make a suggestion of something most others may not have tried, it worked wonders for me, so I shared it. I am not or NEVER did say it would work for everyone or anyone for that matter, it was simply a suggestion.

gr81 · 10-07-2003, 07:39 PM

I am not trying to rag on you bro, but of course yrou lower back is prefatigued. It isn't a matter of opinion, if you squat heavy, and then move to the deadlift and perform the dead heavy, there is no doubt that the lower back is prefatigued. Of course it is, and what I am saying is that you need your lower back to be at full strength for each. It is one thing to prefatigue a certain muscle before your do your compound movement, but when a link in the movement like the lower back, which is a crucial component to keeping good form in both lifts, is tired, other joints and muscles will be forced to pick up the slack so to speak. Even if the difference is so minute, it is there. It may not necessarily be a bad thing b/c you want different stabilizing muscles to strengthen, but it isn't a good idea IMO. Go ahead and continue to do what your doing, I am just saying I don't think it is wise, do some research on flexors and joints and how stress is placed on what during lifts like that and you will see what I mean. hey to each his own right.

Stroyer · 10-07-2003, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gr81
hey to each his own right.

At least we agree on one thing..lol..

I was gonna say, I only gots like 7-8 posts here at this board I thought I was getting flamed already....lol..

A little training debate never hurt anyone, we all at this site could talk till we were blue in the face about different training ideas, protocals, methods and still probably not agree on everything..if anything.

Stroyer

gr81 · 10-07-2003, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stroyer
I was gonna say, I only gots like 7-8 posts here at this board I thought I was getting flamed already....lol..

No flaming going on bro, its all good. they don't call me gr81 for no reason, I am opinionated as a mo fo. haha.
well different things work for different people no doubt. Personally I wouldn't have the desired intensity level for one after doing the other, I strive to hit maximum intensity on my powerlifts.

good times right!

BUSTINOUT · 10-08-2003, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gr81
No flaming going on bro, its all good. they don't call me gr81 for no reason, I am opinionated as a mo fo. haha.

Now that is the ONLY absolute I have read in this whole thread. LOL

Stroyer and I go back a looooooooooooooooong ways. Back when there was only a few boards worth a crap. If he has found what works for him, I'm sure it has been through trial and error...as is the case for most of us. I see where both of you are coming from though. Personally I have a hard time doing both on the same day. Not so much because of prefatigue, but rather because I am spent either after squats or deads. Rarely do I run into the problem though, because rarely do I do deads every week and rarely do I squat ever week. The old knees just don't handle them as well any more. When I do them on the same workout, I switch it up a bit on the deads and do rack deads.

Good to see ya around Stroyer.

kraziplaya · 04-15-2005, 05:25 PM

i recently did a squat/deadlift workout and it was just fine...i started with squats for 4 sets....hit some ham curls and then hit deads...even though i did squat and hams, my deads were still at full strength...i was actually surprised...maybe all the other stuff just warmed me up..i prob wouldnt do it every workout but i see no probs with every other....by the way...i really feel the lower back needs longer recovery time than other muscles...if you do a really heavy dead session..take more than a week off lower back...also,the strength of other muscles really come into play when doing deads...any time i increase back/trap/arm/leg strength,my deads always go up

Seanp156 · 04-15-2005, 05:43 PM

I'm not doing them on the same day right now, but when summer comes I may try a westside routine and group them together.

10-03-2003, 01:32 PM	#1
pghkid3 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 10	Squats & Deadlifts Same Day? Can u do squats and deadlifts together on your leg day? I read that deadlifts mainly works the lower back, erector spinae muscle. The rest of the back exercises such as lat pulldowns and bent over rows mainly work the lats so your would not really be working the same muscles twice if you did deadlifts separately from the rest of your back.
pghkid3 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 10

10-03-2003, 01:37 PM	#2
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	you CAN do whatever you want, I wouldn't reccommmend it though. Either way you slice it your lower back will be pre exhausted for one of the exercises and you want all the links in yor chain strong, other wise there will be an imbalance in the lift and other muscles will be forced to make up for it. That is assuming that you will be going intense and heavy on each of course. IMO you are best to split them up, hell alot of people don't even do each in teh same week.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

10-03-2003, 01:40 PM	#3
pghkid3 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 10	thx for the reply. What if I do stiff legged deadlifts, then could I do it with squats?
pghkid3 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 10

10-03-2003, 02:50 PM	#4
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,432	I like to do my stiff leg deadlifts on leg day with my squats. Sometimes I will substitute the stiff leg deads with sumo deadlifts on leg day because I feel they are a bit easier on the lower back and hit the adductors a lite more. I like to put my deadlifts (aka romanian deadlifts) in on back day. The main movement of the deadlift is hip extension, knee extension, plantar flexion and some spinal extension, at the top of the movement. The erectors really come into play though as you are pulling form the bottom of the movment, as well as the traps. I agree with gr81 that it is hard to do them in the same day because the lower back will be to fatigued. It is for this very reason that I always leave at least one day inbetween the days I train legs and back. Just to make sure my lower back, and hamstrings are completely rested. peace, patrick
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

10-03-2003, 02:54 PM	#5
pghkid3 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 10	Cool Ok thanks man
pghkid3 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 10

10-07-2003, 05:20 PM	#6
Stroyer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 14	Squats/Deads I must be the oddball then, I always now train quads and lower back together. Heavy squats bring into play the lower back to a great degree. When I was doing lower back with upper back and then doing quads / hams on a different day, I found my lower back was just not recovering 100% between workouts. I had been stuck at a shitty as dead for years, then on the advice of a PL I started training deads with quads, and I am now pulling my lbs than I ever have in my life!! At first is a pretty demanding workout, but after a few initial sessions it becomes second nature... I am not TELLING anyone to try it, BUT if your dead and OR squat has been in a rut, try grouping quads and deads on the same day for a month and see how things go, my bet is both lifts will go up significantly.
Stroyer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 14

10-07-2003, 07:39 PM	#9
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	I am not trying to rag on you bro, but of course yrou lower back is prefatigued. It isn't a matter of opinion, if you squat heavy, and then move to the deadlift and perform the dead heavy, there is no doubt that the lower back is prefatigued. Of course it is, and what I am saying is that you need your lower back to be at full strength for each. It is one thing to prefatigue a certain muscle before your do your compound movement, but when a link in the movement like the lower back, which is a crucial component to keeping good form in both lifts, is tired, other joints and muscles will be forced to pick up the slack so to speak. Even if the difference is so minute, it is there. It may not necessarily be a bad thing b/c you want different stabilizing muscles to strengthen, but it isn't a good idea IMO. Go ahead and continue to do what your doing, I am just saying I don't think it is wise, do some research on flexors and joints and how stress is placed on what during lifts like that and you will see what I mean. hey to each his own right.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

04-15-2005, 05:25 PM	#13
kraziplaya Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: VA Posts: 527 Photos: 1	i recently did a squat/deadlift workout and it was just fine...i started with squats for 4 sets....hit some ham curls and then hit deads...even though i did squat and hams, my deads were still at full strength...i was actually surprised...maybe all the other stuff just warmed me up..i prob wouldnt do it every workout but i see no probs with every other....by the way...i really feel the lower back needs longer recovery time than other muscles...if you do a really heavy dead session..take more than a week off lower back...also,the strength of other muscles really come into play when doing deads...any time i increase back/trap/arm/leg strength,my deads always go up

04-15-2005, 05:43 PM	#14
Seanp156 Myostatin Whore Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 6,236 Photos: 11	I'm not doing them on the same day right now, but when summer comes I may try a westside routine and group them together.
	My Journal

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