Thread: Starting Over

no offense but you seem more concerned about your muscle atrophy than you do about the state of your back.

ruptured disks aren't a normal part of strength training. I would try to find out what caused it so it didn't happen again. You probably lifted too heavy. Back pain can haunt you for the rest of your life, so be wise about it.

good luck with rehab.

I don't think a crushed disk came from training. Ruptured or degeneration absolutely. We'll have to wait for him to tell us how he did it.

I never crushed a disk but I had 2 herniated disks, scoliosis caused by the injury and also arthritis all in the same L4 L5 disks. I know what your going through and I also lost alot of my gains and weight training came to a complete halt for over a year or two. As Vanity said, it is something that never goes away for good. I still have bad days and it will haunt me for the rest of my life I'm certain. I also did not have surgery. doc advised against it stating that if I did have surgery that I'd be back again sometime in the future. I went to a Kineseoligist chiropractor and he made me almost good as new but it too years. You'll have to go slow and don't hurry back in the gym. I think you'll be side lined for some time. Your injury sounds worse then mine. Crushed disk sounds really bad.

I've had to totally alter my training because of that injury. I can't do heavy squats anymore because just having a really heavy weight on my shoulders and staning upright puts a great amount of pressure on the spine and causes me great pain in that lower area. Same with bentover rows. Just getting into that bent over position and lifting the bar causes major sharp pains. I have to stay around 225 max and keep a more upright position. Be prepared to make the same alterations. If you feel discomfort doing a certain excercise, either try to change the angle or dump it for something that doesn't cause pain. Can't do bent over Barbell rows for example do one arm DB rows supporting yourself with your free hand on a bench. Can't squat stay light and then move to heavy leg presses. You'll also want to really strengthen your abdominal muscles. Strong abs really support your back and spine. Be sure that regardless of any excercise that you maintain better then excellent form throughout the movement. Cheat reps are a no no on anything other then excercises that don't involve any back muscles. Leg presses, seated DB work, Leg extensions. don't even cheat on leg curls, they can also cause back stress when you force reps. Your body will tell you what you can and can't do so LISTEN TO IT CAREFULLY.

Good advice Firestorm.

I don't know for sure but I'd wager it was caused by his lifting (either incorrectly or using too much weight).
One does not crush and rupture a disk by doing needlepoint.

I suspect he hurt his lower back doing either BB bench press or squats. Please people, don't arch your backs.

The crushing thing has me really curious Vanity. I can't wait for him to enlighten us with the details. Ya wanna bet on it though? I say it was something other then lifting. Something like a car accident accidient, a fall, straight leg parachute landing. lol

Barbell benches your lying down not using your back whatsoever. Did you mean Dumbell?? As in picking them up off the floor? Either way I bet it wasn't weight training related. Come on put your mind money up. i'll bet you $100.00 mind dollars. hahahaha


(mind money is imaginary money)

Oh I see you mentioned arching your back there Vanity. I think it would be almost impossible to crush a disk by doing that. Your back will only arch so far regardless how hard you try. unless added pressure (weight) is added as in on your shoulders and arching your back. Look at gymnists they do those back hand springs and those moves where they reach back behind themselves to the floor with both feet still on the floor then one leg at a time go over until they are back in upright position. they don't crush disks.

Gymnasts are freaks of nature.

It could've been too much weight on a military press.
we'll see when he replies.

Same here, had lower back injury for years. It was (I think) thanks to that calf machine where you stand up straight and lift. I lifted all the weight stack, but I did it too fast, I imagine. I was a kid, really, 16 years old, and the local gym meathead instructors never felt like warning me. I kept training for years until I fell in bed unable to walk at 20. I was there for two weeks.

A back doctor (um, don't know the name in english, kinesthesiologist? ) treated me, and now I'm relatively ok.

Now I'm 23, been training for 8 months using the superslow method. It works, it's slow, but the gains are coming, and I like the fact that it's more unlikely to damage me again. Training once or twice a week, for 40 minutes, and seeing gains just rocks. I just don't have time like I did in Highschool.

Same here, I don't do squats, or deadlifts, or anything that places too much stress on my lower back. I use mostly machines.

That's why all this "explosive training" stuff really bothers me. It seems to me that it makes you more prone to injury.

Originally posted by vanity
Please people, don't arch your backs.

Say what? Thats how you avoid injury, if you lay flat on the bench I can start telling you about back pain.

Originally posted by Mex
That's why all this "explosive training" stuff really bothers me. It seems to me that it makes you more prone to injury.

I agree, the older I get, the less I like hearing about it at all. Athletes may be willing to put themselves on the disabled list for thier last 40 years of life, but I would prefer not to be a cripple.

Originally posted by firestorm
Barbell benches your lying down not using your back whatsoever.

You do use the lats, however if I lay flat on the bench and go heavy it kills my back.

Originally posted by Mudge
Say what? Thats how you avoid injury, if you lay flat on the bench I can start telling you about back pain.

Mudge: I haven't seen your bench press but if you're arching your lower back you're asking for BIG trouble. When you arch your lower back more muscles pitch in to lift the weight so you cheat your chest . When one cheats like this you may lift more but you put your lower back in a very vulnerable position (just begging for an injury).

I'm not saying you have to force your back flat into the bench. One needs to keep a natural arch in the lower back and the rest of the back in contact with the bench. Every exercise calls for keeping a straightened back and abdominals tight and tucked in. This creates a natural protective girdle and stabilizes the body throughout the move.

Anybody that cheats in order to lift more weight will sooner or later pay the price. You get away with it for a little while and then one day you feel a sharp pain like an electric shock and it's all over.

Ideally you are allowed to have your ass slightly off the bench while pushing your upper back and neck into the bench while you press. See sig for details

Sig?

I'm not sure if your being serious or not.
"pressing your neck into the bench", who taught you that technique Dr Joseph Guillotin ?

Signature, which I left out of this thread. Dead fish technique causes me pain in the shoulders and back.

I am not really how I did it for sure, but to be honest i think it happened during an adjustment at the Chiropractor's. I don't squat. I have never felt comfortable with the movement. I had been seeing a Chiropractor for a few month's, ( my wife work's at his office). I was going basically because my left hamstring was constantly tight. I work a very physical job and due try my best to lift smart. I don't compete. I just train to be in shape. Anyway I was haveing alot of lower back pain after work and went in to be adjusted. When he did it, nothing moved at all, and it hurt like hell. By the time I got home I needed help getting out of the car, and spent the next few day's crawling around on the floor. An MRI showed a crushed disk L4-L5. I am not as concerened with losing the mass, it's just that the gym was a very important part of who I am. It is something I enjoy more than anything else, and made me proud of myself. I don't lift big, I don't max. It just happened. I used to smoke..ages 15-30, and was told that sometimes that causes dproblems with the disk. I did have the injection yesterday.....Hopefully it will help. Sorry about the long post.

It sounds like you hurt yourself on the job and the chiropractor shook things up.

You HAVE to take things easy. Your back will never be the same again, and you have to respect it, or be willing to pay the price.

If your job is extremely physical, I would seriously recommend a leave of abscence and possibly a career change.

My dad had back problems a long while ago, and he was bed ridden for weeks, and he was lucky.

Be careful. You should probably stay on that treadmill walking for a long time, until you're more rehabbed.

Originally posted by Mudge
Ideally you are allowed to have your ass slightly off the bench while pushing your upper back and neck into the bench while you press. See sig for details

Sorry Mudge here, you and I have to disagree. Proper form and technique are more important then poundage. I'm not getting into powerflifting etc but I believe if a power lifters' ass leaves the bench during a compition that lift is disqualified. Proper form and tech, is butt down, feet FLAT on the floor, chest out, natural arch is absolute but you shouldn't be arching more then the natural curve or going on your toes during a lift. NO way is lifting you backside off the bench proper flat bench technique, your changing the lift to a crappy form of decline presses.

(applauds as he watches Captain America and Bucky defeat the dreaded Red Skull once more).


Almost all back pain is caused by some form of improper lifting technique ( be it in the gym , at work or at home).

I would stay away from Chiropractors. Think about it, all the money you would save you could spend on hOOkers.

Follow your doctor's advice.
Get a second opinion from another doctor and start rehab with a physiotherapist.

good luck

I would never go to one of those bone cracking chiropractors. I did so once and would never do it again. My doc did manipulation, almost like accupuncture but with his hands. He is what I'd call a living Miracle worker.

Originally posted by vanity
When you arch your lower back more muscles pitch in to lift the weight so you cheat your chest . When one cheats like this you may lift more but you put your lower back in a very vulnerable position (just begging for an injury).

I would have to disagree with this statement V. Proper bench press form, which includes arching your back somewhat, puts your pectoralis in the correct alignment for maximum recruitment. Deadfishing it (like that term Mudge), actually forces you to use more frontal deltoids. I used to bench this way, and almost never felt my pecs in the movement. With some arch, shoulder blades pulled together and chest out, I can easily feel pec stimulation with every rep!

Jersey: Anything more than a natural arch in the lower back and you risk injury.

Ok I just tested this whole thing. I think it would be very very difficult to arch your back more then the norm if your keeping your ass planted. If your butt stays planted then no arching from that position can hurt you. Just do what I just did and try it. lay down and arch your back. It will only arch soo far while lying down. With no weight coming down on the spine as it would if you were standing up, you can't hurt yourself.

I think this arching thing is about all talked out. Everyone just keep proper form and don't hurt yourself. bye bye.