Just how HARD to train

Ok Guys. Been training very hard lately. Amazed by my progress and visual gains. Actually totally thrilled with what I see (almost cannot believe it). But I've seemed to have have reached my limit as far my training intensity goes. I'm recovering too slowly for the frequency at which I want to train my body parts. Just trained chest and arms this morning, and as I finished I thought I need a break for at least 4 days. But I just HATE breaks. Even though I guess it will allow increased recovery which will pay back in terms of performance later. I kind of like a 3-day cycle right now, which looks like this:

1) biceps (preacher-bench and dumbells + standing with ez-curl bar)
triceps (lying tricep extensions + standing narrow cable pulldowns)
chest (decline bench press, reg. bench press, pec deck, flies/or fly mach. -or- cable crossovers

2) shoulders (overhead bb press and/or dumbell shoulder press; lat raises; bent-over flies)
waist (roman chair extended leg raises; machine crunch or reg crunch with added weight)
back (med-wide lat pulldown; cable row; shrugs; hyperextension (but not every time))

3) legs (hack squat; leg curls; adductor & abductor machine)

I put enough weights on to get to the maximum resistance I can handle (sometime go a little higher if some will spot me).

Main Issue: Days 1 and 2 right next to each other are very difficult for my arms; the only way I see to fix this is to make it a 4-day cycle. Or I could do 2 3-days cycle, followed by a day or two or rest, or some other type of exercise. :headbang:

I'm following a very complete diet. Was eating about 3500 calories up until recently (p25;c38;f38) but was losing a little weight, which I did not want to do, so now I'm doing about 4000 cals. In the past two months, I went from 36 to 34 jeans, losing what seemed like only fat, and losing almost no weight. The diet seems to be working for me. :thumbup: When I have whey prot. shakes, I add a couple tsp creatine (once, sometimes twice a day). Also 250 mg 4-androdiol before morning workout, and 100 mg in the afternoon. Something important is that I want to continue using only supplements I can get and use legally.

I'm 42, weight about 220lbs, with 34" w.

Any ideas on how I could improve my performance, with the objective of gaining mass (and hopefully LOTS of it over time)?:lifter:

try changing session 2 for session 3, putting legs in the middle. this will give you another days rest from upper body.

Yes, I appreciate the advice. However, if I do my Shoulders/Back etc right before I do my chest and arms again, I run into the same issue, where my arms can't quite make it through my chest workout. The problem is that my arms are needed for both... I guess part of what I'm wondering is am I asking for too much to do this on a 3 day cycle, or should it be a 4-day cycle?

i train mon-chest arms, tues-legs, wed-back shoulders, thu-day off, fri-chest arms etc. this seems to work for me.
how much rest do you get.
with your gains and little rest, just think how much you will grow with an added days rest.

what is your exact routine right now? (day by day)

Basically, it's:

Mon (day 1): Biceps, Triceps, Chest
Tue (day 2): Back, Shoulders, Lats, Traps
Wed (day 3): legs, abs
Thu (day 1 again): see Monday
..and so on

After a couple cycles, I usually have to insert a day of nothing, or just cardio. Perhaps I need a 4-day cycle (kind of like what nat bod is saying). Maybe I'm getting carried away trying to pack in too much with not enough rest. I find that if I take 2-3 days off after a couple cycles, I do amazing the following time.

Anyway, I really appreciate the input.

You need to train one bodypart/once per week. Any more than that and you will eventually be overtraining and negate all progress!

i too had the same exact problem. here is what i do, i am no expert but see if this type of routine is better for you, and lets see if the experts here agree.

DAY1: chest and triceps
day2: shoulders,traps and abs
day3: back and bis
day4: legs and abs
back to day one again, then i take a day off in between. i alsos do cardio every day.

i too was doing bis and tris in the same day and it was killing me. it seems that we use our arms in EVERY upper body exercise! good luck

Mon- arms
Tue - back and shoulders
Wed- legs
Thurs- Chest
Fri, Sat, Sun - Rest (aka party) except Sun I have to go back to work.

If you have been lifting hard and heavy for 2 months I would recommend either a week off from training, and/or switch to a lighter routine for the next 4-6 weeks, or yes you wll definitely end up in a state of overtraining.

that routine at the ned of this message is okay for a beginner that is not lifting very heavy and intensly, once you advance and lift heavy you really do not want o be training 3 days in a row, nor do you want to train each bodypart twice per week, I like to hit each bp once every 5-7 days.

try one on, one off, two on, two off, some variation like that.