Interesting: Running reduces Muscle Mass?

andyo · 11-06-2003, 11:44 AM

Hi all.

Had an interesting conversation with a newbie to the fitness world today, who is trying to add some build to his frame.

He makes a noble effort. But an interesting topic came under discussion: He told me that a bodybuilder who is at the gym told him that Running on the treadmill reduces muscle gains.

Being a certified professional(ACE), I disputed his claim. I asked him to be more specific, which he could'nt.

In my contest bulk and cut experiences, I have never found running to either reduce or increase muscle mass, rather than a great cardio exercise. Of Course, everyone is different and everyone has their own theories. But I have never once read a published article stating the above by anyone.

So my question is: DOES running decrease muscle mass? I am not speaking of a long-distance marathoner, rather from a bodybuilding perspective. Thanks. ( I could be wrong, who knows?)

**Prince** · 11-06-2003, 11:50 AM

Yes, long duration cardio is catabolic, HIIT cardio is the best way to preserve LBM and reduce bf.

My quick analogy is compare a runner and a sprinter, the runner is skinny, not much LBM and probably even high bf than the sprinter who will have more LBM, be leaner, etc.

We have discussed this several times here, you might want to do a search.

BabsieGirl · 11-06-2003, 11:53 AM

I agree with Prince.

maddog1 · 11-06-2003, 01:33 PM

Long distance running definitely breaks down the muscles.

**Mudge** · 11-06-2003, 01:36 PM

The body is not going to want to be a marathoner and bodybuilder at the same time. Just like if you are 'starving' the first thing to go is muscle, because it is wastefull. If you tell the body hey I want endurance, then muscle is going to go bye bye at some point also.

buffed · 11-06-2003, 02:01 PM

This is what ive heard. Running at a certain time will help you to burn fats(20-30mins). However, if you are running too long it will break down the muscles.

andyo · 11-06-2003, 05:27 PM

Right, all of these replies I know already,

But my question was:
Does Running instead of walking (NOT a marathoner, or a sprinter) cause catabolism over 10 minutes?

andyo · 11-06-2003, 05:28 PM

BTW Buffed: You are right: at about 20 minutes the body starts using stored fats as energy during medium-hi intensity cardio.

Thanks for all the replies too everyone.

**Prince** · 11-06-2003, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andyo
But my question was:
Does Running instead of walking (NOT a marathoner, or a sprinter) cause catabolism over 10 minutes?

in 10 minutes, probably not, but what is the point of running for 10 minutes?

**Mudge** · 11-06-2003, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andyo
But my question was:
Does Running instead of walking (NOT a marathoner, or a sprinter) cause catabolism over 10 minutes?

I never saw reference to a time in your post, 10 minutes is not long enough to do much of any good according to science.

HoldDaMayo · 11-06-2003, 06:50 PM

10 minutes is long enough for me to get about half a mile...

spartan · 11-06-2003, 07:16 PM

I am a firm believer of the benifits of high intensity short deration running. Because of my job I am sometimes forced to run in excess of 18kms. I can feel my body eating itself on these runs( or so I think). But given the choice I love the 1.5 mile sprint. I feel that suckha short duration run at such a high intensity has all the benifits of a brutal cardio workout one could ask for. It will increase your V02 max and give your heart and lungs the workout long distince runners crave. Oh ya long distance running not only ruins your knees but makes you impotent.LOL

**Jodi** · 11-06-2003, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
Yes, long duration cardio is catabolic, HIIT cardio is the best way to preserve LBM and reduce bf.

I agree even though I hate HIIT and would prefer to do moderate cardio.

**P-funk** · 11-06-2003, 07:21 PM

running is just really rough on the body in general. If you are going to do cardio opt for something a little more low impact like the stationary bike or the elliptical.

andyo · 11-07-2003, 08:10 AM

Thanks all,

andyo · 11-07-2003, 08:29 AM

Here is what I have figured out:

So long as the athlete keeps cardiovascular exercise Anearobic, in short burst type exercise, with frequent stops, basically HIIT, while keeping calories at a surplus during training, theoretically they will hold onto the muscle mass.

Tha Don · 11-08-2003, 03:39 AM

look at runners....

the biggest guys are the short distance guys, 100m and 200m sprinters

they are in fantasic condition, very big, lean, quick, strong, healthy, i think them guys have the best bodies in sport, obviously they are gentically gifted but they must sprint every day

doubt they lose any muscle when they run! because its quick short and intense.... so if you wanna build muscle and stay fit or trim off fat i recommend HIIT such as sprinting, keep it short and intense

peace

Eggs · 11-08-2003, 06:10 AM

10 minutes wont do jack... I'd say 20 minutes is optimal for running. As ability increases, increase intensity, not time.

Think about it like this - When you're running your body doesnt require lots of muscle. It requires ongoing energy. Whats more efficient, protein at 4 calories or fat at 8 calories? Well it recognizes that it has to decrease bodyweight to deal with the stress its put under, but since it doesnt need the muscle to perform that action why would it save it? So its burns muscle and keeps the fat. Obviously it doesnt turn you into a fatty, but you dont find so many long distance runners that are well muscles and cut.

But up to 20 minutes at high intensity aint no thang.

11-06-2003, 11:44 AM	#1
andyo Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WVA Posts: 362	Interesting: Running reduces Muscle Mass? Hi all. Had an interesting conversation with a newbie to the fitness world today, who is trying to add some build to his frame. He makes a noble effort. But an interesting topic came under discussion: He told me that a bodybuilder who is at the gym told him that Running on the treadmill reduces muscle gains. Being a certified professional(ACE), I disputed his claim. I asked him to be more specific, which he could'nt. In my contest bulk and cut experiences, I have never found running to either reduce or increase muscle mass, rather than a great cardio exercise. Of Course, everyone is different and everyone has their own theories. But I have never once read a published article stating the above by anyone. So my question is: DOES running decrease muscle mass? I am not speaking of a long-distance marathoner, rather from a bodybuilding perspective. Thanks. ( I could be wrong, who knows?)
	To achieve Success is certaily tough..but keeping it, much tougher!

11-06-2003, 11:50 AM	#2
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,736 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	Yes, long duration cardio is catabolic, HIIT cardio is the best way to preserve LBM and reduce bf. My quick analogy is compare a runner and a sprinter, the runner is skinny, not much LBM and probably even high bf than the sprinter who will have more LBM, be leaner, etc. We have discussed this several times here, you might want to do a search.
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11-06-2003, 11:53 AM	#3
BabsieGirl Fighting Endometriosis Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 7,495	I agree with Prince.
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11-06-2003, 01:33 PM	#4
maddog1 Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 313	Long distance running definitely breaks down the muscles.
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11-06-2003, 05:27 PM	#7
andyo Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WVA Posts: 362	Right, all of these replies I know already, But my question was: Does Running instead of walking (NOT a marathoner, or a sprinter) cause catabolism over 10 minutes?
	To achieve Success is certaily tough..but keeping it, much tougher!

11-06-2003, 01:36 PM	#5
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,027 Photos: 1	The body is not going to want to be a marathoner and bodybuilder at the same time. Just like if you are 'starving' the first thing to go is muscle, because it is wastefull. If you tell the body hey I want endurance, then muscle is going to go bye bye at some point also.

11-06-2003, 02:01 PM	#6
buffed Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tucson Posts: 133	This is what ive heard. Running at a certain time will help you to burn fats(20-30mins). However, if you are running too long it will break down the muscles.

11-06-2003, 05:28 PM	#8
andyo Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WVA Posts: 362	BTW Buffed: You are right: at about 20 minutes the body starts using stored fats as energy during medium-hi intensity cardio. Thanks for all the replies too everyone.
	To achieve Success is certaily tough..but keeping it, much tougher!

11-06-2003, 06:50 PM	#11
HoldDaMayo Just call me Mayo Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 1,917 Photos: 4	10 minutes is long enough for me to get about half a mile...
	Are you kidding me????

11-06-2003, 07:16 PM	#12
spartan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In training Posts: 172 Photos: 1	I am a firm believer of the benifits of high intensity short deration running. Because of my job I am sometimes forced to run in excess of 18kms. I can feel my body eating itself on these runs( or so I think). But given the choice I love the 1.5 mile sprint. I feel that suckha short duration run at such a high intensity has all the benifits of a brutal cardio workout one could ask for. It will increase your V02 max and give your heart and lungs the workout long distince runners crave. Oh ya long distance running not only ruins your knees but makes you impotent.LOL
	Hell Week is only 6 months away.

11-06-2003, 07:21 PM	#14
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,432	running is just really rough on the body in general. If you are going to do cardio opt for something a little more low impact like the stationary bike or the elliptical.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-07-2003, 08:10 AM	#15
andyo Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WVA Posts: 362	Thanks all,
	To achieve Success is certaily tough..but keeping it, much tougher!

11-07-2003, 08:29 AM	#16
andyo Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WVA Posts: 362	Here is what I have figured out: So long as the athlete keeps cardiovascular exercise Anearobic, in short burst type exercise, with frequent stops, basically HIIT, while keeping calories at a surplus during training, theoretically they will hold onto the muscle mass.
	To achieve Success is certaily tough..but keeping it, much tougher!

11-08-2003, 03:39 AM	#17
Tha Don Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 3,826 Photos: 33	look at runners.... the biggest guys are the short distance guys, 100m and 200m sprinters they are in fantasic condition, very big, lean, quick, strong, healthy, i think them guys have the best bodies in sport, obviously they are gentically gifted but they must sprint every day doubt they lose any muscle when they run! because its quick short and intense.... so if you wanna build muscle and stay fit or trim off fat i recommend HIIT such as sprinting, keep it short and intense peace

11-08-2003, 06:10 AM	#18
Eggs Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,008	10 minutes wont do jack... I'd say 20 minutes is optimal for running. As ability increases, increase intensity, not time. Think about it like this - When you're running your body doesnt require lots of muscle. It requires ongoing energy. Whats more efficient, protein at 4 calories or fat at 8 calories? Well it recognizes that it has to decrease bodyweight to deal with the stress its put under, but since it doesnt need the muscle to perform that action why would it save it? So its burns muscle and keeps the fat. Obviously it doesnt turn you into a fatty, but you dont find so many long distance runners that are well muscles and cut. But up to 20 minutes at high intensity aint no thang.

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