I thought I was a man....

HoldDaMayo · 11-08-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vanity
I agree with Tupac

haha

gr81 · 11-08-2003, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vanity
I agree with Tupac

word!

I will give offer some solid advice rock even though you slandered my name the other day for no reason. I concurr with Pfunk, it isn't that you can't physically do the movement, it is that you are not used to it and it is a foreign thing to you. that is completely natural man. the squat IS a hard movement to get down. few peole just hop on there and start bangin the reps out. it takes time to work at teh form and get comfortable under there, yoiu can't just give up. that is not how things get accomplished. You have to worry about bringing your hips down, not bringing your knees out b/c once you do that you feet will move and the lift is all f'd up. study the form and work on it. If you are having trouble stabilizing you may have weak ankles, in which case you would have to work on strengthening the stabilizers. If you have one weak link in the chain so to speak then that can throw off the rest of the lift, especially ankle stability. I promise you that if you continue to smith squat eventually you will injure yourself.

Rocco32 · 11-08-2003, 08:44 PM

Listen Gr81. I appreciate the advice and I'll work on it some more. About slandering your name...I apologise about that. I shouldn't have said anything, just a very touchy subject for me on many different levels. I don't agree with what you said, but I had no right to judge you for it without knowing you more or allowing you your own thoughts- Sorry. Let's you and I leave that subject alone and stick to training talk- we've got more in common there. (Except Squats!

)

gr81 · 11-08-2003, 08:52 PM

thank you

BUSTINOUT · 11-08-2003, 08:55 PM

Hey...can I slander your name too?

gr81 · 11-08-2003, 09:00 PM

How dare you

Rocco32 · 11-08-2003, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BUSTINOUT
Hey...can I slander your name too?

I think your name is being slanderd over in Sexual Health man!

**Dale Mabry** · 11-09-2003, 12:27 PM

What I find funny is that people say that they cannot squat because they have bad knees. I remember watching ESPN Sportcenter right around the NFL draft and they showed that guy Willie McGahee, who had just had ligament surgery in one of his knees not 3 months prior to the video repping out with 225.

There is a distinct difference between CAN'T and WON'T.

DeadBolt · 11-09-2003, 04:23 PM

Well I started doing squats not to long ago and I can't go as low as some people say to go, ass to the floor. But I can't go that low, I tried even with just the bar, no weights, and I couldn't get up. So I go as low as I possibly can. But I never see anyone go that low in my gym.

As for me I do a few sets of normal squats, then I do the hack squats with light weight b/c I can go lower then my normal squats. Then I do the simulated squat press that I can go really heavy on. I figure between the 3 exercises it works everything a normal squat works for others and in time I will strengthen my legs enough to go all the way down. But ever since I started doing this routin my legs have grown a ton, my knees have strengthened and am now able to put twice the amount of weight as before. And I have almost doubled my overall weight I can put up on my legs.

You think its ok for me to do these 3 different simulated squat/normal squat to strengthen the whole leg?

HoldDaMayo · 11-09-2003, 04:26 PM

sounds good to me... and sounds like it's working well for you

DeadBolt · 11-09-2003, 04:43 PM

O yea I ment to add in I saw a picture of arnie doing squat and of course he had like an insane amount of poundage on that bar but he was stanfing on like a 2x4 and his toes were on it. I thought you guys all say this is bad for you to do because it messes you up. But why? If I could do that I could definently put up more weight because I wont be afraid of falling forward. But I prefere proper form over weight. So if anyone could tell me why that is bad for you that would be awsome.

Sorry for the hi-jacking didn't feel like making whole new topic.

**Mudge** · 11-09-2003, 04:54 PM

The idea behind that is to put more stress on the quads (board under your heels, never saw someone do it under thier toes), you wont find many people doing that nowdays.

DeadBolt · 11-09-2003, 05:06 PM

Yea I saw him with a board under his frontal foot/toe region. If I were to try and do that to keep my balance like throw some 10lb plates down to the floor would it hurt me in any way? I think it would help me keep my balance and work on lifting with my mid foot to heal area rather then my toes. I have yet to master this and I do tend to lean forward almost falling forward. And would belt help with this?

**Mudge** · 11-09-2003, 06:19 PM

I dont see how tilting your foot backwards would help balance when you have a weight on your backside.

If you are leaning heavily forward your back and abs probably need more work, fix the problem if it is one, dont bandaid it. I would also prefer to even the load on the foot how it was meant to be, not put all the weight on my toes or heels.

DeadBolt · 11-09-2003, 06:22 PM

o i c thanks man

Dante B. · 11-10-2003, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
There is a distinct difference between CAN'T and WON'T.

Really.

So if my tendonitis is so severe that I can't squat the barbell without my knees screaming in agony, I guess it's a "WON'T.

It depends on the nature of the condition. I manage to work around it, and I love sumo squats (can't do close-stance squats, but I can get away with sumos).

That was just about the most absurd generalization that I've ever come across, and it's incredibly insulting to those of us who deal with injuries, still busting our ass (sometimes, to the point of causing greater harm).

Rocco32 · 11-10-2003, 06:49 AM

And some people are not willing to sacrifice further hurting themselves over an exercise. Yes, exercise is suppose to be intense, but not debilitating. The whole point of exercise is to improve the quality of your life, not tear everything in your body so you can be "Hardcore".

**Dale Mabry** · 11-10-2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante B.
Really.

So if my tendonitis is so severe that I can't squat the barbell without my knees screaming in agony, I guess it's a "WON'T.

It depends on the nature of the condition. I manage to work around it, and I love sumo squats (can't do close-stance squats, but I can get away with sumos).

That was just about the most absurd generalization that I've ever come across, and it's incredibly insulting to those of us who deal with injuries, still busting our ass (sometimes, to the point of causing greater harm).

In the purest essence of the word, if you CAN and you choose not to, then yes, it's a won't regardless of your condition.

My statement was not a generalization, I did not say everyone who doesn't squat neglects to because they won't, I merely said there was a difference between can't and won't. Some people can't squat, and some people just won't. I have no idea
as to the nature of your or anyone else's injury and, therefore, would not say that you squat because you just don't want to.

I meant not to insult anyone, but I would say a large majority of the people who say they CAN'T squat actually won't squat. One of my buddies won't squat and there is absolutely no medical reason not to, he has no tendonitis or tears, he just has "bad" knees. I personally have bursitis in my right shoulder to the point where any pressing movement is extremely painful, yet I still manage to do pressing movements whereas a couple months ago I would use it as an excuse.

Dante B. · 11-10-2003, 06:07 PM

I agree, in general.

However, as the posted above you stated, it's also wise to know when to pull back.

Over the years, I managed to make thing worse for myself when I refused to stop squatting, pressing, etc. Now that I've smartened up (a bit, for a retard), my physique as well as my joints are thanking me for it.

Flex · 11-10-2003, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gr81
I couldn't disagree with you more bro. Sounds like you aren't squatting hard enough

the hack still doesn't involve as many muscle groups that the free squat does, it doesn't place teh amount of stress on the entire body that the squat does either. It doesn't require the balance and stabalization that the squat does, no way is it harder IMO.

don't get me wrong, i am def squatting hard enough. i go until i can barely rack the bar. unfortunately like pfunk suggested, we don't have squat racks at my shitty college gym, so i dont wanna drop the bar on myself. therefore i go about 95% all out, leaving "5%" so i can get the bar up.

i was talking about sheer pain that i go through. when i do hack squats my legs make me feel like i'm going to die. after regular squats it takes me like a minute to not feel like i'm going to pass out, but my legs don't get teh burn that they do when i hack, that's all i'm saying.

gr81 · 11-10-2003, 06:49 PM

I know what you were sayin. I just like playing the devils advocate lot of the time in case you haven't noticed

. Nothing gets me toasted the way squating does though.

Flex · 11-10-2003, 06:57 PM

I know you like that playing the advocate, you and great satan prob. get along well haha

hell ya dude, squatting (and legs in generaol) are def. the hardest shit there is, no question.

that's why i have so much respect for Platz. dude used to KILL himself doing legs. whenever i am training (esp. legs), and it hurts so bad, i think of Platz. He is quoted as saying "when the first thought of stopping comes to your mind cuz it hurts so bad, that's when the set really starts. every rep until then is irrelevant". What a crazy fucker huh? hahahahah

gr81 · 11-10-2003, 07:11 PM

me and platz have alot in common.

Flex · 11-10-2003, 07:21 PM

That's my boys

**Dale Mabry** · 11-11-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante B.
I agree, in general.

However, as the posted above you stated, it's also wise to know when to pull back.

Over the years, I managed to make thing worse for myself when I refused to stop squatting, pressing, etc. Now that I've smartened up (a bit, for a retard), my physique as well as my joints are thanking me for it.

I concur Dante, I am a bit of a hardhead when it comes to stopping as well. I guess as you grow older, you kinda keep telling yourself to keep up with the younger you and, at a certain point, you just can't.

11-08-2003, 08:44 PM	#33
Rocco32 UNLEASH THE BEAST Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 22,316 Photos: 18	Listen Gr81. I appreciate the advice and I'll work on it some more. About slandering your name...I apologise about that. I shouldn't have said anything, just a very touchy subject for me on many different levels. I don't agree with what you said, but I had no right to judge you for it without knowing you more or allowing you your own thoughts- Sorry. Let's you and I leave that subject alone and stick to training talk- we've got more in common there. (Except Squats! )
	I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...

11-08-2003, 08:52 PM	#34
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	thank you
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

11-08-2003, 09:00 PM	#36
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	How dare you
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

11-09-2003, 12:27 PM	#38
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,780 Photos: 10	What I find funny is that people say that they cannot squat because they have bad knees. I remember watching ESPN Sportcenter right around the NFL draft and they showed that guy Willie McGahee, who had just had ligament surgery in one of his knees not 3 months prior to the video repping out with 225. There is a distinct difference between CAN'T and WON'T.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

11-09-2003, 04:23 PM	#39
DeadBolt MP Minister of Pain! Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ocean County NJ Posts: 7,332	Well I started doing squats not to long ago and I can't go as low as some people say to go, ass to the floor. But I can't go that low, I tried even with just the bar, no weights, and I couldn't get up. So I go as low as I possibly can. But I never see anyone go that low in my gym. As for me I do a few sets of normal squats, then I do the hack squats with light weight b/c I can go lower then my normal squats. Then I do the simulated squat press that I can go really heavy on. I figure between the 3 exercises it works everything a normal squat works for others and in time I will strengthen my legs enough to go all the way down. But ever since I started doing this routin my legs have grown a ton, my knees have strengthened and am now able to put twice the amount of weight as before. And I have almost doubled my overall weight I can put up on my legs. You think its ok for me to do these 3 different simulated squat/normal squat to strengthen the whole leg?
	"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson ´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

11-08-2003, 08:55 PM	#35
BUSTINOUT Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,408	Hey...can I slander your name too?

11-09-2003, 04:26 PM	#40
HoldDaMayo Just call me Mayo Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 1,917 Photos: 4	sounds good to me... and sounds like it's working well for you
	Are you kidding me????

11-09-2003, 04:43 PM	#41
DeadBolt MP Minister of Pain! Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ocean County NJ Posts: 7,332	O yea I ment to add in I saw a picture of arnie doing squat and of course he had like an insane amount of poundage on that bar but he was stanfing on like a 2x4 and his toes were on it. I thought you guys all say this is bad for you to do because it messes you up. But why? If I could do that I could definently put up more weight because I wont be afraid of falling forward. But I prefere proper form over weight. So if anyone could tell me why that is bad for you that would be awsome. Sorry for the hi-jacking didn't feel like making whole new topic.
	"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson ´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

11-09-2003, 04:54 PM	#42
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,994 Photos: 1	The idea behind that is to put more stress on the quads (board under your heels, never saw someone do it under thier toes), you wont find many people doing that nowdays.

11-09-2003, 05:06 PM	#43
DeadBolt MP Minister of Pain! Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ocean County NJ Posts: 7,332	Yea I saw him with a board under his frontal foot/toe region. If I were to try and do that to keep my balance like throw some 10lb plates down to the floor would it hurt me in any way? I think it would help me keep my balance and work on lifting with my mid foot to heal area rather then my toes. I have yet to master this and I do tend to lean forward almost falling forward. And would belt help with this?
	"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson ´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

11-09-2003, 06:19 PM	#44
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,994 Photos: 1	I dont see how tilting your foot backwards would help balance when you have a weight on your backside. If you are leaning heavily forward your back and abs probably need more work, fix the problem if it is one, dont bandaid it. I would also prefer to even the load on the foot how it was meant to be, not put all the weight on my toes or heels.

11-09-2003, 06:22 PM	#45
DeadBolt MP Minister of Pain! Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ocean County NJ Posts: 7,332	o i c thanks man
	"Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson ´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

11-10-2003, 06:49 AM	#47
Rocco32 UNLEASH THE BEAST Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 22,316 Photos: 18	And some people are not willing to sacrifice further hurting themselves over an exercise. Yes, exercise is suppose to be intense, but not debilitating. The whole point of exercise is to improve the quality of your life, not tear everything in your body so you can be "Hardcore".
	I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...

11-10-2003, 06:07 PM	#49
Dante B. Non Compost Mentis Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 598 Photos: 8	I agree, in general. However, as the posted above you stated, it's also wise to know when to pull back. Over the years, I managed to make thing worse for myself when I refused to stop squatting, pressing, etc. Now that I've smartened up (a bit, for a retard), my physique as well as my joints are thanking me for it.
	Not to see many things, not to hear many things, not to permit many things to come close - first imperative of prudence, first proof that one is no mere accident but a necessity. Friedrich Nietzsche - Ecce Homo

11-10-2003, 06:49 PM	#51
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	I know what you were sayin. I just like playing the devils advocate lot of the time in case you haven't noticed . Nothing gets me toasted the way squating does though.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

11-10-2003, 06:57 PM	#52
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	I know you like that playing the advocate, you and great satan prob. get along well haha hell ya dude, squatting (and legs in generaol) are def. the hardest shit there is, no question. that's why i have so much respect for Platz. dude used to KILL himself doing legs. whenever i am training (esp. legs), and it hurts so bad, i think of Platz. He is quoted as saying "when the first thought of stopping comes to your mind cuz it hurts so bad, that's when the set really starts. every rep until then is irrelevant". What a crazy fucker huh? hahahahah
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

11-10-2003, 07:11 PM	#53
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	me and platz have alot in common.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

11-10-2003, 07:21 PM	#54
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	That's my boys
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*