Progress slow, try this.... my story about overtraining

camarosuper6 · 12-04-2003, 10:41 AM

I have been working out on and off for nearly 4 years, with the past two years being more serious. I have tried many types of workouts, many schemes, reps, diets and all the lot. The last month I have been doing something that has absolutely changed the way I look at working out forever and has done ABSOLUTE WONDERS for my physique.

I have been using HIT the last month. I believe, even if you choose not to use the exact HIT program, that High Intensity is THE most important factor to making serious results. Most of us know by now, any basic routine will allow some results. You exercise and your body adapts in one way or another. Maybe its not a quick as you like, or a strong as you like, but chances are you will see some kind of results. But to get the best results in the fastest amount of time is what everyones basic goal is. I doubt I have any arguments so far.

Doing a HIT program (there are many versions), you can pretty much do any exercises you like, as long as they are compound and the INTENSITY IS HIGH. I cannot stress that enough. INTENSITY is one half the reason my growth has been so impressive the past month. However, the other equally important factor is FREQUENCY. I seriously believe I have been overtraining my entire life. No joke. I believe 95 percent of people bodybuilding overtrain. Im not talking about 5 days a week, or split routines which are obviously overtraining ( at least for people not using steroids), but im talking about 4 times a week. Even 3 times a week.

I know what some people are thinking.... 3 times a week OVERTRAINING. Most people dont feel like they train enough doing 3 times a week. But I believe, for the average person using no steroids, that 3 times can defintely lead to overtraining.

I have made the BEST gains of my LIFE by working out once every 4 -5 days. That equals to 2 workouts a week and BARELY 2 a week. I also only workout for about 35 to 45 min per workout, doing NO MORE than 2 sets for an exercise. Usually just one. I may do 2 or 3 sets for a body part, doing a different exercise each time, and I always go to absolute positive failure. The key to this is INTENSITY which I cannot stress enough. INTENSITY puts huge stress on your body and you will need 4 or 5 days to fully recover for another workout. Do you think going nearly two weeks before working a certain muscle group is too long? Dont think that way. Try it. A normal person eating a healthy, high protein diet, with legal supplements (creatine, glutamine, even prohomones) need more time to recover than someone using an illegal steroid, which increases recovery time remarkably.

I dont mean to preach, I am simply sharing my experiences with you guys, hoping this will help those who are unhappy with the progress they are making, and even those who have been happy. Give it a month. Try reading the late great Mike Mentzer, who has published 4 or 5 books on HIT training, and now many other publications, articles and scientific research which claim high intensity, and low volume is the best way for to gain muscle mass quickly and safely.

This has worked wonders for me, and Im sure it will do the same for you.

Dave

Flex · 12-04-2003, 10:54 AM

i realize that may work for you, but not the majority. i have asked "upscale" BB's (meaning ones that have incredible physiques that have one contests, including a few pros) and they all think its crap. they can't tell me enough that it's the "lazy man syndrome". they say its for people that wanna be in the gym (like you said) for only 30 minutes at a time and want to go back to being lazy.

the main thing i took away was "there is no such thing as overtraining, only underrecuperating." meaning you can't do too many sets/reps, you can only not give your body enough food/rest b/w workouts. for example, if you do 30 sets for back, as long as you get enough nutrients and recovery time before your next workout, you will be good to go.

i dont know what to believe about exactly whether high or low volume works. alls i know is that i have made the best progress by going 4 days in a row, with 1 off. everyone told me it was "overtraining shmovertraining". but when i kept getting bigger, leaner and stronger, how is taht wrong?

camarosuper6 · 12-04-2003, 12:33 PM

HIT is a lazy mans routine? THAT is a joke.

I never said high volume was "wrong". I said you can make some progress from any basic routine, because most any routine will cause your muscles to adapt. Upscale BB's are on all kinds of steroids, usually in amounts that no normal person could afford or would want to stick in their body. Of course they can recouporate quickly. They could grow from any workout imginable.

Now this "lazy man" syndrome is absurd. The whole idea about HIT is you hit the gym so hard, that you couldnt possibly do higher volume at that intensity. You cannot train with maximum intensity for long periods of time. I mean MAXIMUM intensity. I dont know where you get the idea that if I train 30 min at full intensity and you train 2 hours at moderate intensity, that I am lazy?

And whats up with this "no such thing as overtraining, only underrecouperating" DUH. Your just saying the same thing in different words. Overtraining is when you dont rest enough. Underrecouperating is when you dont rest enough. Um...... ok?

Scientific evidence suggests high intensity is far superior to high volume as far as building muslce mass. HIT would work for the MAJORITY of people because the MAJORITY of people are not "high level bodybuilders" with loads of steroids in their system.

And BTW, Mike Mentzer, Dorian Yates, Skip LaCour and Jeff Willet are all accomplished Pro Bodybuilders that use it. I dont know where you get the idea that BB's think its crap??? I DO think your post is a bit harsh and definitely not well written.

njnpc · 12-04-2003, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by camarosuper6
I have been working out on and off for nearly 4 years, with the past two years being more serious. I have tried many types of workouts, many schemes, reps, diets and all the lot. The last month I have been doing something that has absolutely changed the way I look at working out forever and has done ABSOLUTE WONDERS for my physique.

I have been using HIT the last month. I believe, even if you choose not to use the exact HIT program, that High Intensity is THE most important factor to making serious results. Most of us know by now, any basic routine will allow some results. You exercise and your body adapts in one way or another. Maybe its not a quick as you like, or a strong as you like, but chances are you will see some kind of results. But to get the best results in the fastest amount of time is what everyones basic goal is. I doubt I have any arguments so far.

Doing a HIT program (there are many versions), you can pretty much do any exercises you like, as long as they are compound and the INTENSITY IS HIGH. I cannot stress that enough. INTENSITY is one half the reason my growth has been so impressive the past month. However, the other equally important factor is FREQUENCY. I seriously believe I have been overtraining my entire life. No joke. I believe 95 percent of people bodybuilding overtrain. Im not talking about 5 days a week, or split routines which are obviously overtraining ( at least for people not using steroids), but im talking about 4 times a week. Even 3 times a week.

I know what some people are thinking.... 3 times a week OVERTRAINING. Most people dont feel like they train enough doing 3 times a week. But I believe, for the average person using no steroids, that 3 times can defintely lead to overtraining.

I have made the BEST gains of my LIFE by working out once every 4 -5 days. That equals to 2 workouts a week and BARELY 2 a week. I also only workout for about 35 to 45 min per workout, doing NO MORE than 2 sets for an exercise. Usually just one. I may do 2 or 3 sets for a body part, doing a different exercise each time, and I always go to absolute positive failure. The key to this is INTENSITY which I cannot stress enough. INTENSITY puts huge stress on your body and you will need 4 or 5 days to fully recover for another workout. Do you think going nearly two weeks before working a certain muscle group is too long? Dont think that way. Try it. A normal person eating a healthy, high protein diet, with legal supplements (creatine, glutamine, even prohomones) need more time to recover than someone using an illegal steroid, which increases recovery time remarkably.

I dont mean to preach, I am simply sharing my experiences with you guys, hoping this will help those who are unhappy with the progress they are making, and even those who have been happy. Give it a month. Try reading the late great Mike Mentzer, who has published 4 or 5 books on HIT training, and now many other publications, articles and scientific research which claim high intensity, and low volume is the best way for to gain muscle mass quickly and safely.

This has worked wonders for me, and Im sure it will do the same for you.

Dave

What kind of HIT are you using? Are you using mentzers heavy duty routine?

camarosuper6 · 12-04-2003, 06:30 PM

I did the first week, but i dont really think pre-exaust techniques are the way to go often. I use a heavy approach. 8-10 reps two weeks. 4-6 reps two weeks. I rotate them. 2-3 times per week.

Working great so far

Flex · 12-04-2003, 06:41 PM

like i said before by "there's no such thing as overtraining, just underrecuperating...................meaning you can't do too many sets/reps, plus how you can only not give your body enough food/rest b/w workouts." meaning high volume overtraining is bullshit.

Scientific evidence suggests high intensity is far superior to high volume as far as building muslce mass??? oh really, i'd like to know where you got that info. if that were true, don't you tihnk EVERYONE would be using that as soon as that info came out? plus, I dont know where you get the idea that you can train your entire body in 2 30min workouts per week. i dont think it'll work for MOST normal people (non pros) as you call them, cuz most people don't go to "true" failure. they stop when it hurts...

Oh, and by the way, Dorian did NOT use HIT. that was told to me by Tom Prince, pro BB, who also said HIT is bullshit, and the "lazy man workout". He said he saw Dorian train numerous times, and he used to use around 10-12 working sets per bodypart, countrary to the popular belief that he used only a few.

Dante B. · 12-05-2003, 03:23 AM

Amazing. I'm not going to debate this, as you can do as you please, and I honestly don't care about how anyone trains:

Ever hear of cycling volume and intensity? I gather not. What "works," doesn't necessarily work absolutely.

A person who's trained HIT-style, and has switched over to GVT understands what I'm talking about. Anyone who has actually sat down and thought about all of this full well knows what I mean.

It's not always "this versus that," but rather:

How this works--for now, and why; and how that works--for now, and why.

And with that, I'm out.

Jim1954 · 12-05-2003, 03:37 AM

Flex,

I know this is off the topic here, but what is M.I.L.F.?
I have heard this before but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it means.

Burner02 · 12-05-2003, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim1954
Flex,

I know this is off the topic here, but what is M.I.L.F.?
I have heard this before but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it means.

M= mothers
I= I'd
L= like
to
F=fu**

Jim1954 · 12-05-2003, 04:11 AM

Burner02,

Thanks! There MILF's all over the damn place!

Burner02 · 12-05-2003, 04:27 AM

I am here to help in any way I can..

ponyboy · 12-05-2003, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante B.
Amazing. I'm not going to debate this, as you can do as you please, and I honestly don't care about how anyone trains:

Ever hear of cycling volume and intensity? I gather not. What "works," doesn't necessarily work absolutely.

A person who's trained HIT-style, and has switched over to GVT understands what I'm talking about. Anyone who has actually sat down and thought about all of this full well knows what I mean.

It's not always "this versus that," but rather:

How this works--for now, and why; and how that works--for now, and why.

And with that, I'm out.

Amen bro. You said it before I could. Congratulations on finding what works for you, but it isn't going to work for anyone. In fact, if you train that way long enough I'd wager that it will even stop working for you.

We all have to train for our own body and figure out what our body responds to best.

rburton · 12-05-2003, 11:11 AM

I must weigh in on this post: HIT is the most effective training method available, regardless whether the individual is juicing or is clean. The only problem that I see with the post orignator is that he is training too frequently. Myself, I train a full-body routine every 7-10 days, 3-4 sets per workout. I'm 42 yr. old, I'm 6 feet tall, I weigh 255 pounds, and I have 12% bodyfat. BTW, I am not genetically gifted, by any means; in addition, I use no supplements, I just eat healthy foods.

Yes, HIT is the way to go, and Mike Mentzer's Heavy Duty Program, which is based upon HIT principles is very effective. Why would anyone want to spend one or more hours in a weight room four to sixdays per week when you could gain the same results training 15 min. every seven to 10 days?

P.S. Yes, the majority of successful BB have trained using a volume system, but so have the majority of the failures. Plus, those who have succeeded with volume are genetically gifted and/or using supplements of some kind (including steriods). If those same individuals had/would use HIT, they would make even better gains and in less time.

Flex · 12-05-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rburton
I must weigh in on this post: HIT is the most effective training method available, regardless whether the individual is juicing or is clean.

prove it

Flex · 12-05-2003, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante B.
Ever hear of cycling volume and intensity? I gather not. What "works," doesn't necessarily work absolutely.

It's not always "this versus that," but rather:

How this works--for now, and why; and how that works--for now, and why.

thank you

rburton · 12-05-2003, 11:57 AM

Flex, prove what? If you want to learn about HIT/HD, and to do so with a rational approach, access high-intensity.net. Besides, what I posted is accurate. The majority of successess in BB have used volume, but they have used steroids as well; otherwise, explain how the successful pro BB has such distorted features? Furthermore,the majority of the failures have used volume training too. All you have to do to see this is to look around you in the gym. In other words, you want proof, but proof is useless unless you are willing and able to see training efficacy realistically and logically.

Flex · 12-05-2003, 12:14 PM

Look around in the gym? meaning everyone is not very muscular b/c they use high volume i assume your saying? Don't start that. When i look around in the gym, 95% of the people in there don't even know what the hell they're doing first of all, nevermind having to choose whether to use HIT or high volume.

You keep saying "the majority of the failures have used volume training too". Name ANY successful BB's that use HIT. i dont know any except a few that utter its B.S.

forget everyone pro BB's that use steroids. lets look at natural people. i know i've made the best success using high volume. all of my friends who BB religously like me use high volume. guys from my gym (and i am talking about MONSTERS), use high volume. they don't go to the gym for 15 min workouts?????? thats from my own personal experience...from a realistic and logical approach

Triple Threat · 12-05-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rburton
HIT is the most effective training method available

Have you always trained HIT style?

rburton · 12-05-2003, 03:51 PM

Interesting, Flex. You state that 95% do not know what they are doing, but that you and your friends and guys from your gym (who are monsters, in your words) use volume training. Do those who do not know what they are doing train with volume? If so, then you proved my point. In addition, what about all the people who have trained but stopped because they made do gains using volume?

rburton · 12-05-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaptainDeadlift
Have you always trained HIT style?

Hello, Captain Deadlift (perfect username, BTW, I wish I had thought of it). I've been training for 20 yr, during which I have used HIT for the past 17 yr.

Flex · 12-05-2003, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rburton
Interesting, Flex. You state that 95% do not know what they are doing, but that you and your friends and guys from your gym (who are monsters, in your words) use volume training. Do those who do not know what they are doing train with volume? If so, then you proved my point. In addition, what about all the people who have trained but stopped because they made do gains using volume?

no, i said me and my friends (who are bigger than "typical" BB's)...............and guys from my gym who are monsters use volume.

by "not knowing what they're doing", i mean they don't know how to do this exercise correctly. therefore, whether they use HIT or high volume, it doesnt matter cuz they will never get the best results possible from either. most people that train but stopped b/c they made no gains using volume? dont know many of those. like i said, most people stop b/c they don't get the MOST outta their training, cuz they don't do it right.

so we've got "normal" people covered, lets talk pros. alls i know is, Tom Prince, pro BB, BEFORE he took juice, told me he, and MOST OTHERS BEFORE THEY JUICED, used high volume. He siad Dorian didnt use it, and NOONE did BEFORE THEY JUICED.

Dude, i really dont feel like argueing whats better. you do your HIT, i, and most people, will keep gaining w/ volume.
i got other more important shit to worry about.

JerseyDevil · 12-05-2003, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rburton
The only problem that I see with the post orignator is that he is training too frequently. Myself, I train a full-body routine every 7-10 days, 3-4 sets per workout.

Enlighten us. You do a full body workout every 1 to 1-1/2 weeks. How do you accomplish working the entire body with 3 sets? Please post your workout.

Flex · 12-05-2003, 08:14 PM

i think i may have figured it out.....

1 set of deadlifts for: traps, overall back, forearms, secondary hitting the legs

1 set of squats for :quads, hams, secondary lower back

1 set of benchpress for : chest, tris, shoulders

repeat 1.5 weeks later

HoldDaMayo · 12-05-2003, 08:44 PM

Sometimes when Dante posts I think... damn... that guy has a lot of not only knowledge, but common sense...

When I completely switch up my training style, i see the largest changes in my body... just like supplements, training needs to be cycled as well... I know there's alot more to it than what I know... but I do think changing workout styles and routines is of huge importance...

12-04-2003, 10:41 AM	#1
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,325	Progress slow, try this.... my story about overtraining BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com I have been working out on and off for nearly 4 years, with the past two years being more serious. I have tried many types of workouts, many schemes, reps, diets and all the lot. The last month I have been doing something that has absolutely changed the way I look at working out forever and has done ABSOLUTE WONDERS for my physique. I have been using HIT the last month. I believe, even if you choose not to use the exact HIT program, that High Intensity is THE most important factor to making serious results. Most of us know by now, any basic routine will allow some results. You exercise and your body adapts in one way or another. Maybe its not a quick as you like, or a strong as you like, but chances are you will see some kind of results. But to get the best results in the fastest amount of time is what everyones basic goal is. I doubt I have any arguments so far. Doing a HIT program (there are many versions), you can pretty much do any exercises you like, as long as they are compound and the INTENSITY IS HIGH. I cannot stress that enough. INTENSITY is one half the reason my growth has been so impressive the past month. However, the other equally important factor is FREQUENCY. I seriously believe I have been overtraining my entire life. No joke. I believe 95 percent of people bodybuilding overtrain. Im not talking about 5 days a week, or split routines which are obviously overtraining ( at least for people not using steroids), but im talking about 4 times a week. Even 3 times a week. I know what some people are thinking.... 3 times a week OVERTRAINING. Most people dont feel like they train enough doing 3 times a week. But I believe, for the average person using no steroids, that 3 times can defintely lead to overtraining. I have made the BEST gains of my LIFE by working out once every 4 -5 days. That equals to 2 workouts a week and BARELY 2 a week. I also only workout for about 35 to 45 min per workout, doing NO MORE than 2 sets for an exercise. Usually just one. I may do 2 or 3 sets for a body part, doing a different exercise each time, and I always go to absolute positive failure. The key to this is INTENSITY which I cannot stress enough. INTENSITY puts huge stress on your body and you will need 4 or 5 days to fully recover for another workout. Do you think going nearly two weeks before working a certain muscle group is too long? Dont think that way. Try it. A normal person eating a healthy, high protein diet, with legal supplements (creatine, glutamine, even prohomones) need more time to recover than someone using an illegal steroid, which increases recovery time remarkably. I dont mean to preach, I am simply sharing my experiences with you guys, hoping this will help those who are unhappy with the progress they are making, and even those who have been happy. Give it a month. Try reading the late great Mike Mentzer, who has published 4 or 5 books on HIT training, and now many other publications, articles and scientific research which claim high intensity, and low volume is the best way for to gain muscle mass quickly and safely. This has worked wonders for me, and Im sure it will do the same for you. Dave
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

12-04-2003, 10:54 AM	#2
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	i realize that may work for you, but not the majority. i have asked "upscale" BB's (meaning ones that have incredible physiques that have one contests, including a few pros) and they all think its crap. they can't tell me enough that it's the "lazy man syndrome". they say its for people that wanna be in the gym (like you said) for only 30 minutes at a time and want to go back to being lazy. the main thing i took away was "there is no such thing as overtraining, only underrecuperating." meaning you can't do too many sets/reps, you can only not give your body enough food/rest b/w workouts. for example, if you do 30 sets for back, as long as you get enough nutrients and recovery time before your next workout, you will be good to go. i dont know what to believe about exactly whether high or low volume works. alls i know is that i have made the best progress by going 4 days in a row, with 1 off. everyone told me it was "overtraining shmovertraining". but when i kept getting bigger, leaner and stronger, how is taht wrong?
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

12-04-2003, 12:33 PM	#3
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,325	HIT is a lazy mans routine? THAT is a joke. I never said high volume was "wrong". I said you can make some progress from any basic routine, because most any routine will cause your muscles to adapt. Upscale BB's are on all kinds of steroids, usually in amounts that no normal person could afford or would want to stick in their body. Of course they can recouporate quickly. They could grow from any workout imginable. Now this "lazy man" syndrome is absurd. The whole idea about HIT is you hit the gym so hard, that you couldnt possibly do higher volume at that intensity. You cannot train with maximum intensity for long periods of time. I mean MAXIMUM intensity. I dont know where you get the idea that if I train 30 min at full intensity and you train 2 hours at moderate intensity, that I am lazy? And whats up with this "no such thing as overtraining, only underrecouperating" DUH. Your just saying the same thing in different words. Overtraining is when you dont rest enough. Underrecouperating is when you dont rest enough. Um...... ok? Scientific evidence suggests high intensity is far superior to high volume as far as building muslce mass. HIT would work for the MAJORITY of people because the MAJORITY of people are not "high level bodybuilders" with loads of steroids in their system. And BTW, Mike Mentzer, Dorian Yates, Skip LaCour and Jeff Willet are all accomplished Pro Bodybuilders that use it. I dont know where you get the idea that BB's think its crap??? I DO think your post is a bit harsh and definitely not well written.
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

12-04-2003, 06:30 PM	#5
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,325	I did the first week, but i dont really think pre-exaust techniques are the way to go often. I use a heavy approach. 8-10 reps two weeks. 4-6 reps two weeks. I rotate them. 2-3 times per week. Working great so far
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

12-04-2003, 06:41 PM	#6
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	like i said before by "there's no such thing as overtraining, just underrecuperating...................meaning you can't do too many sets/reps, plus how you can only not give your body enough food/rest b/w workouts." meaning high volume overtraining is bullshit. Scientific evidence suggests high intensity is far superior to high volume as far as building muslce mass??? oh really, i'd like to know where you got that info. if that were true, don't you tihnk EVERYONE would be using that as soon as that info came out? plus, I dont know where you get the idea that you can train your entire body in 2 30min workouts per week. i dont think it'll work for MOST normal people (non pros) as you call them, cuz most people don't go to "true" failure. they stop when it hurts... Oh, and by the way, Dorian did NOT use HIT. that was told to me by Tom Prince, pro BB, who also said HIT is bullshit, and the "lazy man workout". He said he saw Dorian train numerous times, and he used to use around 10-12 working sets per bodypart, countrary to the popular belief that he used only a few.
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

12-05-2003, 03:23 AM	#7
Dante B. Non Compost Mentis Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 598 Photos: 8	Amazing. I'm not going to debate this, as you can do as you please, and I honestly don't care about how anyone trains: Ever hear of cycling volume and intensity? I gather not. What "works," doesn't necessarily work absolutely. A person who's trained HIT-style, and has switched over to GVT understands what I'm talking about. Anyone who has actually sat down and thought about all of this full well knows what I mean. It's not always "this versus that," but rather: How this works--for now, and why; and how that works--for now, and why. And with that, I'm out.
	Not to see many things, not to hear many things, not to permit many things to come close - first imperative of prudence, first proof that one is no mere accident but a necessity. Friedrich Nietzsche - Ecce Homo

12-05-2003, 03:37 AM	#8
Jim1954 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 149 Photos: 3	Flex, I know this is off the topic here, but what is M.I.L.F.? I have heard this before but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it means.
	Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. Yogi Berra

12-05-2003, 04:11 AM	#10
Jim1954 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 149 Photos: 3	Burner02, Thanks! There MILF's all over the damn place!
	Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. Yogi Berra

12-05-2003, 04:27 AM	#11
Burner02 Super Hero in Training Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tip of the spear! Posts: 28,274	I am here to help in any way I can..
	Success leaves clues. People who produce outstanding results do specific things to create those results Nobody cares what you did yesterday or what you are going to do tomorrow. What is important is what you are doing NOW to solve our problem THERE IS NO TOMORROW! - Appollo Creed

12-05-2003, 11:11 AM	#13
rburton The Searcher Join Date: May 2003 Location: NC Posts: 129	I must weigh in on this post: HIT is the most effective training method available, regardless whether the individual is juicing or is clean. The only problem that I see with the post orignator is that he is training too frequently. Myself, I train a full-body routine every 7-10 days, 3-4 sets per workout. I'm 42 yr. old, I'm 6 feet tall, I weigh 255 pounds, and I have 12% bodyfat. BTW, I am not genetically gifted, by any means; in addition, I use no supplements, I just eat healthy foods. Yes, HIT is the way to go, and Mike Mentzer's Heavy Duty Program, which is based upon HIT principles is very effective. Why would anyone want to spend one or more hours in a weight room four to sixdays per week when you could gain the same results training 15 min. every seven to 10 days? P.S. Yes, the majority of successful BB have trained using a volume system, but so have the majority of the failures. Plus, those who have succeeded with volume are genetically gifted and/or using supplements of some kind (including steriods). If those same individuals had/would use HIT, they would make even better gains and in less time.

12-05-2003, 11:57 AM	#16
rburton The Searcher Join Date: May 2003 Location: NC Posts: 129	Flex, prove what? If you want to learn about HIT/HD, and to do so with a rational approach, access high-intensity.net. Besides, what I posted is accurate. The majority of successess in BB have used volume, but they have used steroids as well; otherwise, explain how the successful pro BB has such distorted features? Furthermore,the majority of the failures have used volume training too. All you have to do to see this is to look around you in the gym. In other words, you want proof, but proof is useless unless you are willing and able to see training efficacy realistically and logically.

12-05-2003, 12:14 PM	#17
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	Look around in the gym? meaning everyone is not very muscular b/c they use high volume i assume your saying? Don't start that. When i look around in the gym, 95% of the people in there don't even know what the hell they're doing first of all, nevermind having to choose whether to use HIT or high volume. You keep saying "the majority of the failures have used volume training too". Name ANY successful BB's that use HIT. i dont know any except a few that utter its B.S. forget everyone pro BB's that use steroids. lets look at natural people. i know i've made the best success using high volume. all of my friends who BB religously like me use high volume. guys from my gym (and i am talking about MONSTERS), use high volume. they don't go to the gym for 15 min workouts?????? thats from my own personal experience...from a realistic and logical approach
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

12-05-2003, 03:51 PM	#19
rburton The Searcher Join Date: May 2003 Location: NC Posts: 129	Interesting, Flex. You state that 95% do not know what they are doing, but that you and your friends and guys from your gym (who are monsters, in your words) use volume training. Do those who do not know what they are doing train with volume? If so, then you proved my point. In addition, what about all the people who have trained but stopped because they made do gains using volume?

12-05-2003, 08:14 PM	#23
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	i think i may have figured it out..... 1 set of deadlifts for: traps, overall back, forearms, secondary hitting the legs 1 set of squats for :quads, hams, secondary lower back 1 set of benchpress for : chest, tris, shoulders repeat 1.5 weeks later
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

12-05-2003, 08:44 PM	#24
HoldDaMayo Just call me Mayo Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 1,917 Photos: 4	Sometimes when Dante posts I think... damn... that guy has a lot of not only knowledge, but common sense... When I completely switch up my training style, i see the largest changes in my body... just like supplements, training needs to be cycled as well... I know there's alot more to it than what I know... but I do think changing workout styles and routines is of huge importance...
	Are you kidding me????

12-05-2003, 10:51 PM	#25
Pierzin training DC style! Elite Member