Breathing Problems, Very Bad

**Adie** · 12-22-2003, 05:42 AM

I've been going to the Gym religiously for well over a year now, but I am Suffering from some kind of respiratory problem that is seriously affecting my training and causing me a few day-to-day issues.

Sometimes when I train, I feel unusually short of breath and very 'strange'.
heart rate can, for instance rise to 153+ (nothing unusual there you may say) but sometimes on exercises that that don't usually raise it that high. I begin to feel very weak etc and faint I experience a buzzing in my wrists and hands and a strange tight sensation up the left side of my neck running up to my lower jaw, I also feel very tight around the chest. At this stage I begin to feel very paranoid and vulnerable. If I'm using free-weights, I have to just leave them where they are, because I just don't feel well enough to move them. Also I just don't feel like I physically talk to anyone.

I then have trouble getting changed (and feel I a state of panic)
And have trouble walking down the stairs and out of the gym, I have to walk very slowly and hold the handrail sometimes.

On a couple of occasions I've had a terrible time driving home, I've in the car and sometimes struggle to get the car into gear (yes, it's that bad)

even after I've driven home, and over an hour later my heat rate can be 125 which I really don't feel is normal!

I have suffered from actual panic attacks, about 3 years ago, I had two very bad ones, but this is very different and seems quite unrelated.

This problem has never occurred on the treadmill etc, only when I've been lifting. The first time it happened was after my first ever gym session and even though it was really unpleasant I just put it down to 'overdoing' it.

It's happened about six times in the past year and three of those times have been truly awful and quite frightening. It almost feels like I'm 'drowning'.

It often happened either half way through training or near the end but now It is happening at the very beginning.

I am 31 years old. 5'8" and I weigh 11st 13 on average. I am very agile I have an athletic build and I'm certainly not overweight.

I am a Vegetarian

I don't smoke (I gave up two years ago after a 12 year habit)

I drink on very rare occasions

I eat very well (all the 'right' foods) and usually get at least 8 hours sleep.

I'm a Freelance Graphic designer, so I don't suffer from any work related stress

I regularly take supplements and I've tried different types/ brands/ ingredients in case these were the problem

I don’t take drugs (though up until 3 years ago I smoked pot and regularly took Ecstasy recreationally for 8 years).

I AM considering taking steroids though (Deca).
I have attached three word files that represent my weekly training schedules, I spend a total of anything from 7-9 hours in the gym per week

I Skateboard (half pipes) for about 2-3 hours at least once a week (I've been a skater for about 18 years) I snowboard (jumps- ramps etc) for two hours per week and sometimes teach snowboarding for a couple of hours.

I am also pretty fearless but this issue really can scare the pants off me.

So by all accounts I should be reasonably fit and I can't understand what's happening to me and why.

I've been to my Doctor a few times, I've had my blood pressure taken ('normal') numerous blood tests, and a chest X-ray but he has totally drawn a blank on it.

I've spoken to gym staff about it and to some experienced bodybuilders but nobody has heard of anything like it.

One last thing I feel I must mention is that sometime is actually 'forget' to breathe, Past Girlfriends have actually had to shake me in bed and remind me the breath because I hold my breath for a long time. I find myself doing this subconsciously during the day sometimes.

Well that's about it, apologies for the length of the email but I wanted to try and supply as much info as possible. Thank you for your time, any help and/ or advice would be very much appreciated as I love going to the gym and this has stopped my training, I haven't been for a week and a half now because I've decided to give a it a rest for a while

Many thanks in advance Folks

Kind Regards

Adie

**BigBallaGA** · 12-22-2003, 06:51 AM

damn dude,, you might be having heart attacks or something !!

i would quit all training until you can properly diagnose the problem,, you dont want to keel over at the gym !

thats my 2 cents,

wait for some other IM self diagnosed experts jump into this discussion, they will have more for you..........

**katie64** · 12-22-2003, 07:12 AM

Honey, you really should stop training, here are some links for you, I think you should definitely see a specialist, you may also consider the fact that you might have a pinched nerve in your neck, my recent car accident left me with numbness in my hands, all the way up through to my neck, it gave me many of the symptoms you have described, and for that matter any number of things could be wrong with your disc, in your back and/or your neck, this sounds very serious, I'm surprised you haven't been given a cat scan or MRI, do you have insurance, if so request these, it doesn't hurt to rule out some of the bigger issues that could be causing this, doctor's are very skeptical about ordering test, has a lot to do with frickin insurance and we suffer at their expense, really hope you find an answer soon and take care of it, not to scare you but there are many things it could be, respitory infection, blood clot, and what I've already mentioned, you could do a search for more info, I did a quick one for you and tons of diffent disorders/issues came up, I'll be thinking of you, let us know as soon as you find out more, take care.

breathing disorders

Medline

Anxiety

**kbm8795** · 12-22-2003, 07:31 AM

I agree with Big Balla - it's a good idea to see if you can get some comprehensive medical tests.

That being said, there are probably several reasons why these panic attacks might ensue for you when you are lifting. For one thing, I think (and I can be wrong, since I'm not an expert) that when you are pushing yourself, it's a natural instinctive reaction to alter your breathing patterns. Your blood pressure goes up during the exertion, etc. That's why I think a lot of trainers always remind people to breathe.
I'm a lot older than you are, and have had breathing problems a couple of times - usually because of humidity or air quality in the gym. But I've also found that it's very important for me to concentrate on breathing as much as moving the weight - you have to talk to yourself and make sure you establish that rhythm. Some might disagree with this, but if you find yourself not monitering your breathing, don't go to that next level, at least until you've discovered if it's your body reacting or you've been thoroughly checked out.

I think even breathing control is an important key - partially to assert more control over the weight, but also to help check your form. Like I said, I might be wrong about this, but monitering breathing to me is part of learning good form.

This is also a situation that to me provides a very good reason to have a training partner who can see things happening to you while you are lifting. Since I don't know your medical situation (and I'm sure no medical doctor here), it seems to me that it's really important for you to be able to identify when these panic attacks start to come on for you...and if you can talk yourself through them.

Forgetting to breathe when you are sleeping is a big problem - it indicates there might be some kind of other disorder (perhaps related to sleep apnea?) that might be affecting you. I wish I knew more about those things, but it seems to me that the doctor can certainly take these symptoms and recommend a specialist who can help. You can be hooked up and be monitered during your sleep, for example - I've got a friend who just had that experience in a hospital.

Some of the more experienced people around here might be helpful about how they handle breathing - but since your case appears to also happen when you aren't lifting (like sleeping) this is something you need to pay attention to. If there are certain exercises that have been the cause of this panic, (like heavier lifting, like bench or squats) go low and PRACTICE breathing with every movement. That means TALK to yourself about breathing - concentrate on it while moving the weight for awhile instead of the weight. . .no straining until you know why you are having this serious of a problem.

Like Big Balla says - have this all checked out before you do any more heavy training - especially the problem you have while sleeping. I hope this is some help . . .

**BabsieGirl** · 12-22-2003, 08:22 AM

Are you weight training while having little to no carbs? Are you drinking plenty of clear fluids? Did you change your supplements? Are you currntly taking supplements while being on Prescription drug(s)?

Is the muscle tension sudden or does this only happen while you're working out? Are you Stressed?

What you have is: Sleep Apnea

Sleep apnea is a serious, potentially life-threatening condition that is far more common than generally understood. First described in 1965, sleep apnea is a breathing disorder characterized by brief interruptions of breathing during sleep

There are two types of sleep apnea: central and obstructive. Central sleep apnea, which is less common, occurs when the brain fails to send the appropriate signals to the breathing muscles to initiate respirations. Obstructive sleep apnea is far more common and occurs when air cannot flow into or out of the person’s nose or mouth although efforts to breathe continue.

n a given night, the number of involuntary breathing pauses or “apneic events” may be as high as 20 to 60 or more per hour.

Sleep apnea can also be characterized by choking sensations. The frequent interruptions of deep, restorative sleep often leads to excessive daytime sleepiness and may be associated with an early morning headache.

Early recognition and treatment of sleep apnea is important because it may be associated with irregular heartbeat, high blood pressure, heart attack, and stroke.

**plouffe** · 12-22-2003, 10:33 AM

Before you workout take some Pseudoephedrine. It's a Decongestant. Also give ya a boost in the gym. If not, Look into asthma relief medication:

http://www.drugstore.com/qxp15924_33...ef_tablets.htm

**BabsieGirl** · 12-22-2003, 10:56 AM

I don't think this person is asking for a decongestant nor more energy in the gym......His heart rate jumps due to his mental state.

If he/she is suffering from Anxiety, why the hell would you recommend something to boost his/her energy?

This person gets all worked up when an outbreak occurs. Once the anxiety kicks in, a state of paronoya also works it's way into the picture with this person. Results: He'll have enough adrenalyn for 3 people to work out at high level intensity!!!!

Read his post and put yourself in his shoes.

I want to say, he's suffering from Panic attacks due to Anxiety and paranoya from fear of what is happening to him...which, tends to put his phsychological/mental state at risk, i.e.: high blood pressure....

Adie

I would seek medical attention. Don't totally rule out Sleep Apnea. You stated how you've suffered from Panic attacks in the past. Were you under medical care for your chemical imbalance?

**HoldDaMayo** · 12-22-2003, 11:04 AM

a question like this requires medical analysis... I mean there's no harm in throwing out possibilities... but the bottom line is... this is NOT normal, NOR healthy... please see a specialist as recommended... taking any advice from even the most knowledgable people on these boards is negligent... a REAL doctor couldn't determine the problem in person... some fit fanatics on a forum board is the WRONG place to turn... hell, we'll just throw you on steroids and send you back to the gym to knock out another 4 or 5 sets....

**BabsieGirl** · 12-22-2003, 11:09 AM

I wouldn't do that!

Thanks for bringing that back to my attention.

If you're already suffering from a chemical imbalance, the last thing you want to do is take Deca.

Hold------When I talk about his symptoms and what is going on inside, I speak from experience plus, many many clinical hours put forth this study.

**HoldDaMayo** · 12-22-2003, 11:19 AM

Babs, I don't care if you're the head doctor at the Mayo Clinic... you simply can't diagnose something like this over the internet...

He needs to see a specialist.. I believe you said it earlier in this thread, that's the bottom line

Have you ever seen what happens at the emergency room when someone has chest pains or breathing problems... they get pushed right to the front of the line...

I just take this stuff seriously... because... well... this is a person's life we are talking about...

**BabsieGirl** · 12-22-2003, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by HoldDaMayo
Babs, I don't care if you're the head doctor at the Mayo Clinic... you simply can't diagnose something like this over the internet...

No, you cannot diagnose someone over the internet however, you can give best judgement of what is going on with this person. The advice given is not to be taken as medical advice as should be common sense. And, I think the author of this thread has enough of it. He/She is worried and seeking the opinion of another with (MAYBE) possible hope someone here at IM has experienced any of these symptoms. It's mental relief. I believe no one here is diagnosing this person, rather offering opinions.

He needs to see a specialist.. I believe you said it earlier in this thread, that's the bottom line

I did mention that and I also threw some medical possibilities out in the open. Calm down, it's not like I'm trying to make this person my patient!!!!!

Have you ever seen what happens at the emergency room when someone has chest pains or breathing problems... they get pushed right to the front of the line...

Uh yeah, I worked in the ER for 4 years.....They get more than "pushed" to the front of the line, they take precidence over any other "non-life threatening" situation, etc......

I just take this stuff seriously... because... well... this is a person's life we are talking about...

Which is why we're all saying to seek medical attention by a neurologist (about his sleeping disorder) & or a phsychologist/psychiatrist (for his chemical imbalance, ie: Panic, paranoia, anxiety attacks.b)

**HoldDaMayo** · 12-22-2003, 11:40 AM

I'm calm... but it just seemed like the people on this thread were working on a crossword puzzle or something...

Uh... 7 letters... starts with a "T" , clue: Pet Dog of Celebrity Jennifer Lopez...

We all know you're VERY VERY informed Babs... I was just explaining how I feel about this... I hope you didn't feel like I was trying to get personal...

although, after you're "wet wife beater" comment... hmm...

**BabsieGirl** · 12-22-2003, 11:43 AM

Well you better be mister!!!!

I see what you're saying now that I scrolled up....

And you're more than entitled to your opinion...

Uh.....did I tell that story?

**plouffe** · 12-22-2003, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by BabsieGirl
I don't think this person is asking for a decongestant nor more energy in the gym......His heart rate jumps due to his mental state.

If he/she is suffering from Anxiety, why the hell would you recommend something to boost his/her energy?

This person gets all worked up when an outbreak occurs. Once the anxiety kicks in, a state of paronoya also works it's way into the picture with this person. Results: He'll have enough adrenalyn for 3 people to work out at high level intensity!!!!

Read his post and put yourself in his shoes.

I want to say, he's suffering from Panic attacks due to Anxiety and paranoya from fear of what is happening to him...which, tends to put his phsychological/mental state at risk, i.e.: high blood pressure....

Adie

I would seek medical attention. Don't totally rule out Sleep Apnea. You stated how you've suffered from Panic attacks in the past. Were you under medical care for your chemical imbalance?

Sorry all I seen was the was that he had difficilty breathing.. my bad.

**BabsieGirl** · 12-22-2003, 02:17 PM

No problem.

Now I have a question.

Where the heck is this person? They were on here earlier and, if this was that important, why the heck isn't he/she providing feed back. Some of this could be beneficial knowing as a group.

**katie64** · 12-22-2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by BabsieGirl
No problem.

Now I have a question.

Where the heck is this person? They were on here earlier and, if this was that important, why the heck isn't he/she providing feed back. Some of this could be beneficial knowing as a group.

If you'll notice they live in the UK, they also might possibly have a life

**Adie** · 12-22-2003, 04:08 PM

Hello there folks

)
Well i have to say that I've been very overwhelmed by the caring responses that I've had to this thread, it really restores myn faith in man (and woman) kind. Thank you alll so much for your concerns.

I've been very late in responding
as I live in London England and I keep different times to you folks I'm sure.

The Sleep Apnea theory seems very interesting because it's popped up before in literature, and it has been hilighted as a
very serious condition (somi really hope that isn't it!). I am going to the doctors at 8.30 am tomorrow for a hopefully a very good long and clear chat. Unfortunately In england We have a 'National Health' Service whichn means we all have to pay 10% of our wages to the government as a means of insurance.
this certainly doesnt get us great treatment and I'll be lucky to get 5 minues+ with the doctor which isjust a joke!

Everyone has been so great offering so many possibilities, Katie64 actualy mentioned a pinced nerve could be a problem, which again could be a possibility, as I had avery bad snowboarding accident about a year and a half and almost broke my neck (had severe whiplash)

Yes Katie, I am eating plenty of carbs before training (well done for pointing this out) I think that I am doing everything correctly because I've paid very conscious attention to all the new information about resistance exercise that I've either read of have been given. So I hope i'm on the right track !

I do spend a lot of time in the gym (3 hours per session, three times a week)

I spend longer in the gym than most that attend, maybe I'm too fanatical and I'm ovedrdoing i

(

Training affects different people in different ways and I guess we really all need to experiment to find out what's best for us... I on the other hand really, really ned to find out what's wrong with me!!

Hello there folks

)
Well i have to say that I've been very overwhelmed by the caring responses that I've had to this thread, it really restores myn faith in man (and woman) kind. Thank you alll so much for your concerns.

I've been very late in responding
as I live in London England and I keep different times to you folks I'm sure.

The Sleep Apnea theory seems very interesting because it's popped up before in literature, and it has been hilighted as a
very serious condition (somi really hope that isn't it!). I am going to the doctors at 8.30 am tomorrow for a hopefully a very good long and clear chat. Unfortunately In england We have a 'National Health' Service whichn means we all have to pay 10% of our wages to the government as a means of insurance.
this certainly doesnt get us great treatment and I'll be lucky to get 5 minues+ with the doctor which isjust a joke!

Everyone has been so great offering so many possibilities, Katie64 actualy mentioned a pinced nerve could be a problem, which again could be a possibility, as I had avery bad snowboarding accident about a year and a half and almost broke my neck (had severe whiplash)

Yes Katie, I am eating plenty of carbs before training (well done for pointing this out) I think that I am doing everything correctly because I've paid very conscious attention to all the new information about resistance exercise.

BabsieGirl has made such an excellent contribution and I really that her for her opinions, she was certainly very right to make such sensible suggestions, especially about the panica attacks and the 'viscious circle' they create (thanks heaps BabsieGirl) I'm sure my doctor wil probably poutline this and elaborate on it but I know deeo down it isn't is, but it's most certainly part of it.

Big Balla and kbm8795 are also very right about stopping traing immediately, which I have done. It's very difficult staying away from the gym, but at least i don't haver to deal with the guilt of not going!! I just miss it and realise that I'l have to get back into it slowley and work my way back upthe weights, I wont be going back until it's safe to and I'm sure that'll be in the new year.

Well, I'm off to the doctors in the Morning and I'll let you all know how it went., whatever happens i'll keep you al at IM informed, even if it it goes on for months etc, because hoipefully it'll serve to help others in the future.

I emailed the thread to the British version of Men's Fitness, and the editor was kind enough to reply, here's a copy of his email:

Thanks for your email about your problems during training. Normally we
don't reply to individual letters, only because we don't have the manpower
to respond to every query we get, but I'll make an exception in your case.

To be frank, I don't know what is causing your respiratory problems, but
it sounds serious enough for you to get it checked out properly. If your
GP can't help (and some of them can be a bit lacking when it comes to
training problems) then try a physio or training specialist who can assess
your workouts and see if there is something you are doing wrong (not
breathing correctly, for example). Visiting a different GP would be a good
idea as well. Certainly don't ignore it and hope it will go away.

It's common for people to feel a bit ill after a heavy weights session,
especially if you have been away from training for a while, but that
usually passes quickly and goes altogether once you are into a regular
routine.
__________
One piece of advice I will cdrtainly take, is that next time it happens, I'l drive myself straight to the emergency room, FOR SURE.

Well everyone, thank you all so very much you've all been great. As I'm a newbie, I'll go to the newbie section soon and formally introduce myself (sorry if i jumped the gun a little there and just added a thread right away).

IM is a great site with some very genuine and helpful members

)

Best wishes

Adrian

**Adie** · 12-23-2003, 03:22 AM

Hi again

Many thanks for your replysl, It was very kind of you to all afford me the time, especially at this busy time of year.

I have seen my GP this morning and he's referred me to hospital for a number of tests which will be sometime in the new year, he really didn't have any answers
but he said it's best left to the specialists.

Once I have a better understanding of the problem, I'll let you all know then hopefully it will benefit someone else in the future.

Best

Adie

**JerseyDevil** · 12-23-2003, 03:50 AM

And this my friends, is why a National Healthcare program in the US would be disastrous. Most people think it would be great. The Gov'ment foots the bill and we get medical care for free! Wrong. Like Adie stated, in a system like this you pay big time taxes, have lack of choice, and even for serious medical conditions it may take months to receive diagnosis and treatment. Adie, I have some aunts and cousins in the UK (my Mum is from SevenOaks, Kent) and I've heard horror stories regarding the healthcare program from them, so I can sympathize.

...and what's this about a wet wife beater?

**Adie** · 12-23-2003, 04:23 AM

Yes jerseypaul you're quite right, National Healthcare program in the US would be disastrous! It's certainly no fun over here I can assure you. If you break and arm or leg etc you can expect anyhing up to a 5 hour wait. Waiting lists for surgery are very, very long and there are a lot of horror stories in the press (most quite true) of elderly people waitinh in corridors, in bad conditions on trolleys for days waiting for treatment.

I visited hosbital a while ago for some blood tests and the hygene standards were nothing short of horrific. My local tattoo Studio is much cleaner.

England is a Beautiful country, steeped in heritage and history and there are some great peole here but is very expensive to live here and the services are terrible.

**BabsieGirl** · 12-23-2003, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by katie64
If you'll notice they live in the UK, they also might possibly have a life

I didn't ask for your .02 cents!

**BabsieGirl** · 12-23-2003, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Adie

The Sleep Apnea theory seems very interesting because it's popped up before in literature, and it has been hilighted as a
very serious condition (somi really hope that isn't it!). I am going to the doctors at 8.30 am tomorrow for a hopefully a very good long and clear chat. Unfortunately In england We have a 'National Health' Service whichn means we all have to pay 10% of our wages to the government as a means of insurance.
this certainly doesnt get us great treatment and I'll be lucky to get 5 minues+ with the doctor which isjust a joke!

BabsieGirl has made such an excellent contribution and I really that her for her opinions, she was certainly very right to make such sensible suggestions, especially about the panica attacks and the 'viscious circle' they create (thanks heaps BabsieGirl) I'm sure my doctor wil probably poutline this and elaborate on it but I know deeo down it isn't is, but it's most certainly part of it.

Best wishes

Adrian

Thanks Adrian.

I'm sure, all will be just fine. Until next time, God bless and may peace be with you during the holiday season.

Please be sure to update us.

**katie64** · 12-23-2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by BabsieGirl
I didn't ask for your .02 cents!

No, but I gave it anyway

, oh do have a wonderful holiday Babs

Here's your present, LOL

**BabsieGirl** · 12-23-2003, 01:30 PM

Aw...Thanks Katie...I didn't realize how skilled you were.

Must have take you all day to accomplish such a display of affection.

**katie64** · 12-24-2003, 06:20 AM

Later

Does she ever shut up

**PreMier** · 12-24-2003, 04:54 PM

Adie--- If infact you are diagnosed with sleep apnia, send me an e-mail or PM me. I belong to another forum, where a couple of members have sleep apnia and they have a thread where they post their problems and they talk it over with each other. Give each other help/advice, and other things. So if you are diagnosed with this I will send you to that thread for morale support, because your not alone

**Adie** · 12-27-2003, 09:39 AM

PreMier. Thanks for letting me know that, it's real cool to know

) I probably won't get a diagnosis for over a month because the UK Health Service is so slow I've got to stay out of the gym for that long!!!) I will let you know how it turn out, thanks!

**plouffe** · 12-27-2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by BabsieGirl
Aw...Thanks Katie...I didn't realize how skilled you were.

Must have take you all day to accomplish such a display of affection.

I say Babsie won?

**katie64** · 12-27-2003, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by plouffe
I say Babsie won?

No one wins on the internet sweetheart, and it's all quite pointless, I'm sure Babs would agree............

And telling someone to "fuck off" only takes two words...........

BTW....if your going to dis me, do it now, cuz my resolution is to not argue with anyone here at IM anymore, so you have 4 days, so go for it.............

**BabsieGirl** · 12-29-2003, 10:50 AM

Okay everyone.....HURRY

J/K

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