gr81

yeah I would in fact. I would be proud of that shit, I don't give a fuck what others think about me. Maybe if this country wasn't being overrun by upset soccer moms and other pussyfied people, we could be truthfull and not have to apologize over everything that upsets someone somewhere. Fuck that. I stand by the decisions I make, good or bad, b/c I have the integrity to do so. If someone doesn't like it, they can look away or go fuck themselves. I will apologize for womething if I feel that I should, not b/c I am pressured into by others. More people need to be the same as well and stand up for what they believe in. Nobody is perfect and trying to paint the picture that you are is foolish and is a waste of time. be who you are and be proud of it. Someone is gonna be offended along the way no matter what you do.

Like my man Bob Marley once said....."you can fool some people some time, but you can't fool all the people all the time...."

Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

darklight

Hey, i know what you mean! But we are entering in sociological patterns... I know as well as you do, that you would be blamed for that! The only one that loose is you!
This world is maid from love and anger, and you know that!
I'm not blaming anyone that tries to help to achieve a better world, but it never will reach perfection! Far from that.

This tinny joke of writting that down would have media, political, sociological, friendsa and famly problems! Do you ever think that Arnold, at that grade, would write down for everyone see that used drugs to achieve objectives? Would be polite...!
Then would be asked what drugs, who sold it, just the media will start a hunting man that he wouldn't survive without valium.

The fact is that i agree with you, but disagree when you say that you don't womething beacause other's pressure! They don't need do the pressure at all, you just womething because it's inadcuate for some patters of society! it's true man, and it's there ever you want or not!

did you noticed when arnold candidated to his now present work (not this world, but can't spell other) in the state of california, what media did? seeking and hunting down what he did in the past with girls? Shit man, that's a real shit!! beeing blamed for what he did with girls????!!?? Now imagine the dimension when talking about drugs, and most of that , that helped him achiving some titles! You know that would lead im in a mess...



You can stand for your decisions, that reveals a strong mind, but don't forget that looking for the other side of the prism will make you achieve a better global perception and induce you in a better decision for yourself, not for others! That is what matters.

Glad for some good discussion!


peace

Patrick

You guys need to watch the 25th anniversary edition of Pumping Iron. In the extra scenes Arnold admits to using steriods. He said that nobody knew how harmful they were, and they weren't illegal when he was competing.

Back to the original topic. The begginer routine doesn't provide nearly enough rest between workouts. If you're a genetic freak on roids it may be enough, but not for the average guy like me trying to build naturally.

pumpthatiron

Why is everyone hating on this book? I just got it from the library today and was all excited to read it until i read some negative things about it in this forum? elaborate please?

waynelucky

Hi there,
arnold was a genetic freak, and used royds, he would have grown whatever training he did, he toke a long time getting there his slow way, he would have got there most prob. much faster if he used the h.i.t. style, but he openly admited it was far to hard for him, just about all the people who grow on the h.v. stlye are genetic freaks, most people will grow a bit from h.v. but then you will stop dead in your track's your body just can't recover from such h.v. workout, fact of life, seen it 100's of time in my old gym, now h.i.t. on the other hand gets you results and results, please do not follow this book, it's balony,

I do the hit style training, we go to failure, 90% of the time, and in my opinion hit is the fastest way for size and strenth, based on ellington darden and arthur jones,

also this man vladimir zatsiorsky, states that going to failure is one of the best, if not the best way for muscle size and strenth,
vladimir zatsiorsky he was the olympic coach for the ussr, and worked with 1000's of ussr, eastern european, powerlifters.
the book is called
"Science and practice of strength training" by
vladimir zatsiorsky i highly recommend it: it is truly an excellent book on the practice of strength training.

there people deal with everday people, not with genetic freaks, all the top bodybuilder are genetic freaks, get real go h.i.t. its to damn hard for most but wow is it productive.

thank you wayne

waynelucky

well hi there all,
I was talking about ellington darden's and arthur jones h.i.t. not anybody elses
thank you wayne

Quasimodo

Hi all... this is my virgin post and I hope I'm not gonna offend anyone here. It is NOT my intention at all...

The Encyclopedia was passed down to me by a friend who was into BB until a motorcycle accident 2yrs ago put him permanently in a wheelchair. He's going thru the emotional shit now and may not be going back to the gym for a long time... and I'm not gonna push the issue. That's another story in itself. But when he found out that I was getting into weight training and some BB, he insisted I take the book from him. It was very impt to him and his bible... so I took it and had a read.

As a beginner, the book has been invaluable to me. Sure I can find tips and routines and such on the web and in other books... for for a single source of information, it's hard to beat. I'm sure that the different exercises may be a little outdated, but then everything progresses with time. The only thing is that I'm not sure if there's any other resource that will cover as much ground as the encyclopedia does.

I flipped to the back where there was the short section about steroids and already I was expecting him NOT to endorse them. I mean in all fairness, he can't. It's not a matter of telling the truth. It a matter of being a role model. He's more than just a Euro BB made good in the US... this man is a cultural icon. Hell, I'm from Singapore and even I am aware of how big he is worldwide (punintended). Personally speaking, I think he should be cut some slack for not endorsing steroids in the book, regardless of whether he used them or not.

And with regards to vladimir... sure, the guy's rep from what you mentioned sounds incredible. And I have little doubt that he's a top notch coach... but did the USSR have lots of problems with their athletes failing dope tests for years? I mean, all those jokes about their women's teams having facial hair and masculine features?

BUT that being said, I think the world's a lot more complicated that we'd like to believe. The pressure on these athletes and coaches competing on the world stage must be intense. That they resorted to 'roids... well, they made their choices. I'm not competing anywhere and I'm just doing this to get fit. Really. Hell, I also wanna look good.

I'm 33 and just starting in this sport. So all the best to everyone!

Autarch

Pumpthatiron: People are just scoffing at his workout routines and his dieting methods, both of which are actually more minor points in the book. In his book he basically says you need to do research and figure out what works best for you.

His sections about the history of bodybuilding, the pictures in the book and the details of each excercise including anatomy pics is worth buying for anyone. It's a wonderful book. The routines and dieting sections are outdated, but the book as a whole is very useful.

I think when he says "beginner workout" he means a beginner to bodybuilding that is already serious about lifting weights. I would die if I tried to do his beginner routine

waynelucky

Hi there,
sorry sorry sorry, i was thinking of the weilder book, so i must take all back i have never read the arnold book,
thank you wayne

Duncans Donuts

The Arnold book is amongst many books in my library. I think it's an excellent book for people who disagree with my own training methodology, and in that regard I consider it an excellent source for information that I have a vague understanding of. It is also good if you need exercise ideas.

Personally, I wouldn't use it, because I would overtrain (as would most without some kind of juice) on the routines recommended.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

pumpthatiron

so what's a good alternative to arnold's book which is updated and which is just like it

Duncans Donuts

I like a book called "Strength Training Anatomy" which diagrams all of the exercises and the muscles worked. It was useful when I first started lifting. As far as training protocols go, there are numerous ones out there. My favorite is High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer way (because I'm a HIT advocate). But I don't know each persons preference, so I find something like that hard to recommend.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

madden player

Mentzer was the first bodybuilder/writer that really made me think about my training. I tried his heavy duty/high intensity method with great results...I also got great results from high volume moderate intensity training...The fact that you find it hard to recommend HIT because you don't know each persons preference is one of the smarter more mature things anyone on this board ever said. It is kind of ignorant to say one method is better/more productive than another for everyone and body type.

I will admit that I was a hardcore Mentzer fanboy at one time...He had me convinced that high volume training will lead to overtraining/lack of progress/illness/injuries...ect. and I would preach the gospel according to Mike Mentzer to anyone who would listen because I was convinced everyone who did high volume style training was wasting their time. ...my opinion has changed since then and I know now that it really is a matter of preference like you said.

http://www.canadabodybuilding.com/banners/cbbsmall.gif

JoeR.

I owe everything to that book, not just any sort of size or info but a lifestyle change. Its an excellent book to learn how to lift and bodybuild. I would recomend it to anyone, but just as with anything it cant be your only source.

I did do the beginner program, 3 day split twice a week for 2 months straight without any REAL workout experience. Needless to say I blew up eating like 1700 cal a day(under what I would cut with). I did stop doing it becasue I got burnt out, but I would say some if not the best progress I ever had doing that spilt.

The book is invaluble to anyone here unless you have 5000+ posts, and even then the history and pictures should be cool enough for everyone to buy it.

Duncans Donuts

I don't see what having 5000 posts has to do with anything.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

Big Smoothy

I am interested in what Arnold, Franco, Katz and other did for drugs and supplements back in those days because there is so much more available today.

Autarch

"I am interested in what Arnold, Franco, Katz and other did for drugs and supplements back in those days because there is so much more available today."

Heavy doses of steroids, plain and simple. Steroids have been around for decades. Those guys were just some of the first to really combine them well with intelligent, well planned workout routines.

Today we have better steroids and more science behind lifting, which is why you see incredibly monstrous builders that make those guys not look nearly as impressive.

http://www.freewebs.com/equilibrium-...ian-turret.gif

JoeR.

I was using it as a rule of thumb, if you have 5000 posts MOST likely you will know a little something. I know it can work both ways though...

solid10

You have got to be kidding me. Ali fought Foreman when he was young and now Foreman was winning fights with present day boxers only a few years back.

Vieope

Terok`Nor

did you do this when you first started lifting

funny...you should go visit another forum *cough*BB4U*cough* and look at the crap that those people write...they all have 5000+ posts :P

JoeR.

Yea

sentricyphen

Arnolds theories and all, though many of them correct, weren't exactly science based, but moreso instinct; animal instinct-- clearly not for the girly man.

Terok`Nor

as I thought, you can't gauge the effectiveness of your progress.
a beginner would grow well on anything. my guess is you could've had more progress if you followed more traditional splits.

ATOMSPLTR

Speaking of "Pumping Iron," I'd like to see Arnie pose with Lou now. Lou is massive!