is using a weightbelt "cheating"

Flex · 01-21-2004, 09:06 PM

Before 3 weeks ago, i had never used a weightbelt when squatting. Then viola, i used one, and my squat went up 100lb.

before you guys go out a buy a weightbelt, there are a few things that went into it also, not just the belt..........

i had never previously attempted the max weight i got when i used the belt, so i actually dont know if i couldve done it before then.

the biggest thing i believe is cuz i alwasy used to only pyramid.............do 135x15 (warmup), then i'd go 225x15 to failure, 275x6 to failure. by the time i got to 315, i could get 6 by killing myself.

2 weeks ago, a guy suggested i use his weight belt. and for some reason, a thought came to my head that for whatever reason took me sooooooooooooo long to figure out. DONT FAIL TILL I GET TO THE HEAVIER WEIGHTS.

using a weightbelt and "jumper" sets, i did warmups of 135x8, 225x6, 315x4, 365x4, and then finally did a failure set and i got 405x7, then 405x6.

ANYWAYS, u guys consider using a weightbelt as cheating? using it, i didnt have to worry about stabilizing my lower back, and when taking a deep breath at the bottom for the ascent, you get almost like an extra boost from having your waist all tight.......

PreMier · 01-21-2004, 09:09 PM

I always use a weight belt for heavy squats and deads. Never on a warmup set. I dont really consider it cheating... Do you use wrist wraps? Do you think those are cheating?

Flex · 01-21-2004, 09:21 PM

ya, i use straps on back day and when i shrug. BUT, i had to do back w/o straps, and i found that i really didnt have that much of a problem w/o them........

gr81 · 01-21-2004, 09:49 PM

use them sparingly, like when you actually need those things. Its not "cheating" htough. what does taht mean anyways, you are in this game by yourself, so you do what you have to do. I don't see how it would be cheating in the traditional sense. Just use the belt when you feel that it can benefit your body and help reduce teh risk of injury on heavy stesand you will be fine. Don't be one of those idiots taht walk around teh gym doing everything with their little leather belts on. Building up the stabalizing muscles are very important in movements like the squat and dead. As long as you are not neglecting that part of your training you will be fine.

**Dale Mabry** · 01-21-2004, 09:53 PM

It is not cheating, but you are not doing yourself any favors by using one on every set. If you must use one, use it on only the heavier sets.

I guess this quote of mine best sums up my thoughts on weight belts. One day I was squatting with a friend and the head of fitness came in with a friend who wanted to work in. His friend was wearing a weight belt and my director said, "Now Dave, don't give him shit because he is wearing a belt, he has a strong core so he can use one." My reply was, "If he had a strong core he wouldn't need a belt.

vanity · 01-21-2004, 09:56 PM

Belts are a crutch and should be avoided like the Plague.

By using them you cheat your core muscles setting yourself up for a nasty injury down the line.

Unless you're a powerlifter, don't use them.

Mr.No · 01-21-2004, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vanity
Belts are a crutch and should be avoided like the Plague.

What about hernia?

Today I was doing bent rows with a barbell and was going heavier than usual. All of the sudden I felt this pain in my lower stomak. I shit my pants even thinking about hernia, but apparently I just pulled my lower abdominal muscle a little because of the weight. From now on i'm using belts for heavier lifts.

vanity · 01-21-2004, 10:46 PM

Hernias protrude through a weak point in the abdominal wall.

Maybe you need to strengthen your abs rather than rely on a belt.

Mr.No · 01-21-2004, 11:12 PM

I was on my power week for back today and was doing barbel rows with 205lb. I usually do it with 185lb but today I went overboard. I think this is heavy considering that my bodyweight is around 185lb. You might be right about strengthening my abs, but I think it's gonna take a lot of strengthening for it to support this kind of weight. (even though I do abs regularly) I thought it might be a good idea to use the belt in the meantime...

supertech · 01-21-2004, 11:22 PM

I never used a belt,but may do so when I do squats.My lower back has been aching lately,

**Mudge** · 01-21-2004, 11:23 PM

Belts ARE a hernia waiting to happen. If you see those bodybuilders with massive outies, thats what it looks like in the aftermath.

If you cant lift the weight then lower it down a notch, get rid of those stupid crutches, strengthen those abs on your own.

When I do bent over rows, besides going 70º I always put my left leg out front to help stabalize. I am 6'2" and would not lean over entirely and expect my spine not to curve, keep your head forward or slightly upward when rowing for spinal alignment.

SLDL + crunches = citadel

vanity · 01-21-2004, 11:33 PM

If you strengthen your abs as well as lower back these muscles
will create a natural girdle and act much like a belt would, with the exception that as you get stronger these core muscles get stronger. The opposite happens if you use a belt.

Mr.No · 01-22-2004, 12:23 AM

Roger that, thanks guys.

**Mudge** · 01-22-2004, 12:26 AM

They can also shoot your BP through the roof, not a good thing

**P-funk** · 01-22-2004, 03:50 AM

no belts for me either......threw mine out years ago.

Deeznuts · 01-22-2004, 06:20 AM

I HAVE to use a weight belt on deadlift and squat. I don't consider it cheating at all. It helps me keep my back straight on squat so I don't accidently pull anything...same on deadlift. It's never been about putting up more weight - just keeping my back 100%. :P

Randy · 01-24-2004, 03:01 PM

I agree with you Deeznuts...I do the same.
To me, using a belt simply provides extra support.
If you have the bullet proof abs/strong back and don't need the belt, that is great. But not everyone has them... For me, that is one of my goals is to focus more on my diet and cardio so I can stengthen my abs, and work more on my back as well.

plouffe · 01-24-2004, 03:10 PM

I don't consider anything that assist's your lift, and keeps yourself from getting hurt - "cheating". It's not like your just using it to lift more weight to brag, it just assist's you in your workout.

Randy · 01-24-2004, 03:10 PM

Interesting article relating to the pros and cons of weight belts...
(Makes ya want to work harder on your abs and wean yourself off the belt).

Learn something new every day

Weight Belts - The Pros and Cons

To understand the pros and cons of weight belts, it is important to understand the purpose of the abdominal muscles in all activities, not just weight lifting. Basically, the abdominal muscles, both the superficial (your 'six pack') and deep muscles, activate to support and stabilise the spine from the ribs all the way to the pelvis. When performing any strenuous activity, these muscles contract to maintain the correct relationship between the chest, abdomen and pelvis, ie: good posture.

It is true that weight belts do increase the pressure on the abdomen by allowing the abdominals to press up against the belt. However, pressure can be generated by the contraction of these muscles without the use of a weight belt. The weight belt alone will not create stability. Relying on the belt for stability during weight training will end in causing muscle deficits. The abdominals are just like any other muscle, if you don't train them you will lose them.

The pros of using a weight belt rest solely with power lifters who lift exceptionally heavy weights (once only) and are used to offset the extreme load. Weight belts were never designed for safe weight training and are not necessary for safe exercising.

The cons are that prolonged, improper use of a weight belt will cause deficiencies in abdominal strength and stability. Imbalances between core strength and that of the arms and legs may lead to injuries due to the weak link.

For strategies and exercises to assist in the improvement of core strength to aid in reducing the reliance on a weight belt, please see an Exercise Specialist.

Randy · 01-24-2004, 04:11 PM

So now that we determined that using a weight belt is not a good preventative tool to avoid injuries during lifting.....

What is the best exercises or routine that will strenthen the abdominal muscles to keep them strong and supportive so they are in line with the spine and chest (i.e.) proper posture. I would like to work on this myself so that I can prevent injury during my common weight lifting routines? I recently read an article where they indicated that crunches can be avoided all together, and are not necessary to build strong abs... and basically the key is burning the fat to expose the muscle. But don't you have to build and stengthen the muscle in the abs first? I am asking these questions cause I am no abs expert. In fact that is my weakness. So I just wanted to hear the variety of opinions on this subject here.

Premo55 · 01-24-2004, 04:21 PM

^^ Not to sound snide but...I told you so! The best exercises are the dragon flag, swiss ball crunch, twisting cable crunches and cable crunches, all weighted, 4 sets of 6-8, you should take about 3 or 4 seconds to reach the top of the movement, pause 2 seconds at moment of peak contraction to really feel the abs contracting, then take another 4 seconds to slowly control your way back down. Never allow tension to escape the abdominal area. Hypers are good, so are good mornings, and Obviously deadlifts (you should try one-armed deadlifts as well for oblique development) are great for the lower back and abs as well. The key to core training is mind-muscle connection and focusing on squeezing the midsection as hard as possible throughout the entire movement.

Peace.

Randy · 01-24-2004, 04:41 PM

The only thing I'm really doing for my abs right now is I do cable crunches 4 sets of 50 reps (200) with like 60 pounds just for some resistance. It seems to get the blood flowing and act as a pretty good warmup before I workout.. I also try to do side bends twice a week. But to be honest I know I need much more ab work. I know I have to discipline myself more on diet and I want to add a good cardio program in this summer like maybe jogging for 30 minutes a day as well.

Thanks Premo for your recommendations..
I used to do good mornings, don't know why I stopped. I think I will add them back into my routine.. I'm affraid of deadlifts due to my weak lower back. I want to strengthen my abs and lower back first before I attempt dead lifts. Squeezing the mid section during ab movements sounds like a great tip.. It's like squeezing at the top of curls and holding helps build the peak..

Premo55 · 01-24-2004, 04:49 PM

Well you can start light on deadlifts, you know. There's no need to kill yourself pulling the first time you try them out. It is, in my opinion, the best exercise you can do in the gym as far as overall mass is concerned (I know a lot of people say squats, but deads in my opinion involves more musculature), and will get your core stronger in no time, provided you have adequate diet and rest.

Peace.

Randy · 01-24-2004, 04:54 PM

You do have a point Premo, and I will definately consider that.
Mucho Gracias amigo

**Mudge** · 01-24-2004, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Deeznuts
I HAVE to use a weight belt on deadlift and squat. I don't consider it cheating at all.

If you "have too" then its because you are used to using the crutch in the first place. It obviously means your abs and back suck on thier own and cant support themselves without said crutch.

I'm 6'2" so dont tell me its because your tall

01-21-2004, 09:06 PM	#1
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	is using a weightbelt "cheating" BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Before 3 weeks ago, i had never used a weightbelt when squatting. Then viola, i used one, and my squat went up 100lb. before you guys go out a buy a weightbelt, there are a few things that went into it also, not just the belt.......... i had never previously attempted the max weight i got when i used the belt, so i actually dont know if i couldve done it before then. the biggest thing i believe is cuz i alwasy used to only pyramid.............do 135x15 (warmup), then i'd go 225x15 to failure, 275x6 to failure. by the time i got to 315, i could get 6 by killing myself. 2 weeks ago, a guy suggested i use his weight belt. and for some reason, a thought came to my head that for whatever reason took me sooooooooooooo long to figure out. DONT FAIL TILL I GET TO THE HEAVIER WEIGHTS. using a weightbelt and "jumper" sets, i did warmups of 135x8, 225x6, 315x4, 365x4, and then finally did a failure set and i got 405x7, then 405x6. ANYWAYS, u guys consider using a weightbelt as cheating? using it, i didnt have to worry about stabilizing my lower back, and when taking a deep breath at the bottom for the ascent, you get almost like an extra boost from having your waist all tight.......
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

01-21-2004, 09:09 PM	#2
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,021 Photos: 1	I always use a weight belt for heavy squats and deads. Never on a warmup set. I dont really consider it cheating... Do you use wrist wraps? Do you think those are cheating?
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

01-21-2004, 09:21 PM	#3
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	ya, i use straps on back day and when i shrug. BUT, i had to do back w/o straps, and i found that i really didnt have that much of a problem w/o them........
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

01-21-2004, 09:49 PM	#4
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	use them sparingly, like when you actually need those things. Its not "cheating" htough. what does taht mean anyways, you are in this game by yourself, so you do what you have to do. I don't see how it would be cheating in the traditional sense. Just use the belt when you feel that it can benefit your body and help reduce teh risk of injury on heavy stesand you will be fine. Don't be one of those idiots taht walk around teh gym doing everything with their little leather belts on. Building up the stabalizing muscles are very important in movements like the squat and dead. As long as you are not neglecting that part of your training you will be fine.
	Testosterone Site/Elite Fitness-Dave Tate/West Side Barbell/Berardi Nutrition & Sports Performance/Steroid Laws- Rick Collins/John Defendis Intensity or Insanity articles/Save the Supersonics

01-21-2004, 09:53 PM	#5
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 13,750 Photos: 10	It is not cheating, but you are not doing yourself any favors by using one on every set. If you must use one, use it on only the heavier sets. I guess this quote of mine best sums up my thoughts on weight belts. One day I was squatting with a friend and the head of fitness came in with a friend who wanted to work in. His friend was wearing a weight belt and my director said, "Now Dave, don't give him shit because he is wearing a belt, he has a strong core so he can use one." My reply was, "If he had a strong core he wouldn't need a belt.
	If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

01-21-2004, 09:56 PM	#6
vanity Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,218 Photos: 1	Belts are a crutch and should be avoided like the Plague. By using them you cheat your core muscles setting yourself up for a nasty injury down the line. Unless you're a powerlifter, don't use them.

01-21-2004, 10:46 PM	#8
vanity Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,218 Photos: 1	Hernias protrude through a weak point in the abdominal wall. Maybe you need to strengthen your abs rather than rely on a belt.

01-21-2004, 11:12 PM	#9
Mr.No Progressing... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the beach Posts: 73	I was on my power week for back today and was doing barbel rows with 205lb. I usually do it with 185lb but today I went overboard. I think this is heavy considering that my bodyweight is around 185lb. You might be right about strengthening my abs, but I think it's gonna take a lot of strengthening for it to support this kind of weight. (even though I do abs regularly) I thought it might be a good idea to use the belt in the meantime...

01-21-2004, 11:22 PM	#10
supertech American BadAss Elite Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,968	I never used a belt,but may do so when I do squats.My lower back has been aching lately,

01-21-2004, 11:23 PM	#11
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	Belts ARE a hernia waiting to happen. If you see those bodybuilders with massive outies, thats what it looks like in the aftermath. If you cant lift the weight then lower it down a notch, get rid of those stupid crutches, strengthen those abs on your own. When I do bent over rows, besides going 70º I always put my left leg out front to help stabalize. I am 6'2" and would not lean over entirely and expect my spine not to curve, keep your head forward or slightly upward when rowing for spinal alignment. SLDL + crunches = citadel
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

01-21-2004, 11:33 PM	#12
vanity Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,218 Photos: 1	If you strengthen your abs as well as lower back these muscles will create a natural girdle and act much like a belt would, with the exception that as you get stronger these core muscles get stronger. The opposite happens if you use a belt.

01-22-2004, 12:23 AM	#13
Mr.No Progressing... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the beach Posts: 73	Roger that, thanks guys.

01-22-2004, 12:26 AM	#14
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	They can also shoot your BP through the roof, not a good thing
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

01-22-2004, 03:50 AM	#15
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,280	no belts for me either......threw mine out years ago.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

01-22-2004, 06:20 AM	#16
Deeznuts Still Growing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 771 Photos: 2	I HAVE to use a weight belt on deadlift and squat. I don't consider it cheating at all. It helps me keep my back straight on squat so I don't accidently pull anything...same on deadlift. It's never been about putting up more weight - just keeping my back 100%. :P
	Desire.Dedication.Deeznuts

01-24-2004, 04:54 PM	#24
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	You do have a point Premo, and I will definately consider that. Mucho Gracias amigo
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

01-24-2004, 03:01 PM	#17
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	I agree with you Deeznuts...I do the same. To me, using a belt simply provides extra support. If you have the bullet proof abs/strong back and don't need the belt, that is great. But not everyone has them... For me, that is one of my goals is to focus more on my diet and cardio so I can stengthen my abs, and work more on my back as well.
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

01-24-2004, 03:10 PM	#18
plouffe is bulking Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,786 Photos: 6	I don't consider anything that assist's your lift, and keeps yourself from getting hurt - "cheating". It's not like your just using it to lift more weight to brag, it just assist's you in your workout.
	These are my favorite faces : - - - Personal Bests: Bench - 235 Deadlift - 315 X 17 Squat - 315 X 11 40 yrd. - 4.65

01-24-2004, 04:11 PM	#20
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	So now that we determined that using a weight belt is not a good preventative tool to avoid injuries during lifting..... What is the best exercises or routine that will strenthen the abdominal muscles to keep them strong and supportive so they are in line with the spine and chest (i.e.) proper posture. I would like to work on this myself so that I can prevent injury during my common weight lifting routines? I recently read an article where they indicated that crunches can be avoided all together, and are not necessary to build strong abs... and basically the key is burning the fat to expose the muscle. But don't you have to build and stengthen the muscle in the abs first? I am asking these questions cause I am no abs expert. In fact that is my weakness. So I just wanted to hear the variety of opinions on this subject here.
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

01-24-2004, 04:21 PM	#21
Premo55 Mic Murderer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 1,059	^^ Not to sound snide but...I told you so! The best exercises are the dragon flag, swiss ball crunch, twisting cable crunches and cable crunches, all weighted, 4 sets of 6-8, you should take about 3 or 4 seconds to reach the top of the movement, pause 2 seconds at moment of peak contraction to really feel the abs contracting, then take another 4 seconds to slowly control your way back down. Never allow tension to escape the abdominal area. Hypers are good, so are good mornings, and Obviously deadlifts (you should try one-armed deadlifts as well for oblique development) are great for the lower back and abs as well. The key to core training is mind-muscle connection and focusing on squeezing the midsection as hard as possible throughout the entire movement. Peace.
	T DOT O.

01-24-2004, 04:41 PM	#22
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	The only thing I'm really doing for my abs right now is I do cable crunches 4 sets of 50 reps (200) with like 60 pounds just for some resistance. It seems to get the blood flowing and act as a pretty good warmup before I workout.. I also try to do side bends twice a week. But to be honest I know I need much more ab work. I know I have to discipline myself more on diet and I want to add a good cardio program in this summer like maybe jogging for 30 minutes a day as well. Thanks Premo for your recommendations.. I used to do good mornings, don't know why I stopped. I think I will add them back into my routine.. I'm affraid of deadlifts due to my weak lower back. I want to strengthen my abs and lower back first before I attempt dead lifts. Squeezing the mid section during ab movements sounds like a great tip.. It's like squeezing at the top of curls and holding helps build the peak..
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

01-24-2004, 04:49 PM	#23
Premo55 Mic Murderer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 1,059	Well you can start light on deadlifts, you know. There's no need to kill yourself pulling the first time you try them out. It is, in my opinion, the best exercise you can do in the gym as far as overall mass is concerned (I know a lot of people say squats, but deads in my opinion involves more musculature), and will get your core stronger in no time, provided you have adequate diet and rest. Peace.
	T DOT O.