back/biceps or back/triceps?

squanto · 01-24-2004, 08:02 PM

this is the routine ive just started:
mon: chest/shoulders/triceps, abs
wed: legs, abs
fri: back/biceps, abs

i heard that it might be better to do back/triceps on the same day... but that doesnt seem to make sense to me, as a lot of my back exercises use biceps, and chest exercises use triceps? if i switched it up to bakc/triceps and chest/biceps, would it be likely that id be overtraining my biceps and triceps, as i would be working them twice a week? would it make any noticible difference at all? thanks.

Monolith · 01-24-2004, 09:32 PM

It depends on if you want to pre-exhaust the biceps or not. Personally, i prefer not to.

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by squanto
this is the routine ive just started:
mon: chest/shoulders/triceps, abs
wed: legs, abs
fri: back/biceps, abs

i heard that it might be better to do back/triceps on the same day... but that doesnt seem to make sense to me, as a lot of my back exercises use biceps, and chest exercises use triceps? if i switched it up to bakc/triceps and chest/biceps, would it be likely that id be overtraining my biceps and triceps, as i would be working them twice a week? would it make any noticible difference at all? thanks.

Ok what your talking about are 2 different training phylosophies. One being the Push/Pull method and the other the pull/pull method. In short is all up to preference. No matter how you look at it, if you do back your secondary muscles being hit are your bis Pulling excercises such as rows, pullups etc tax the biceps. Pushing (bench press) hit the triceps so no matter how you split it up, bis and tris get hit twice regardless. the only decision is, do you want to really blast biceps on back day or are you really looking to put on arm size and want to give them a break before really hitting them.
The way you split up your routine Push/push on monday and pull pull on Friday, if you reversed the split it wouldn't matter because your giving your arms several days break in between. Keep in mind your hitting those muscles as secondary muscle groups when you do back and Chest so it isn't going to tax them as much as when you actually work them as a primary.
In short either way works as long as you have those couple of days break in between.

squanto · 01-24-2004, 09:50 PM

thanks that helps. just one question tho... what did u mean about putting on arm size though? if i do chest-tris and back-bis would that would that be better for arm size? arm size is what i care about the most of all.

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 10:02 PM

OK as mentioned above by Mono, you will pre-exhaust the bis on chest day and tris or Chest day. This means you basically did a mini workout for them prior to doing their primary workout for the week. I would suggest that since you are currently doing the opposite (chest/bis; back/tris,, log down your sets and lifts. On your next workouts do the push/push pull/pull method and take note of your reps and poundage. I can safely say they will not be as optimum as they were on the other split when the muscles are fresher.
If you are really looking for massive arms, I'd suggest what I for one do. I prioritize my training by placing arms on their own day. day 1:Chest, 2: Back(and maybe shoulders if time permits), 3: legs. day 4 arms day 5 shoulders if I didnt get them in on back day. 6 and 7 off.

M.J.H. · 01-24-2004, 10:03 PM

I personally have always preferred chest/triceps and back/biceps, but that's just me. When I hit my biceps indirectly on back day and then again directly on chest day, I feel like I am overtraining them like crazy. For me it's always best to hit your biceps when they're already warmed up, after rows, etc.

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 10:10 PM

for the record: regarding gains from my split version and GOPROS POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK workout, these are my stats from this past September 29th thru November 1st and 01/08.

................09/29...............11/01
chest: .......47 1/2".............49
upper arm:..16 1/4".............17 1/2
forarms:......13 1/2.............14 1/2

M.J.H. · 01-24-2004, 10:13 PM

Quote:

for the record: regarding gains from my split version and GOPROS POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK workout, these are my stats from this past November 1st and 01/08.
chest: 47 1/2".............49
upper arm: 16 1/4".....17 1/2
forarms: 13 1/2...........14 1/2

Woah, what the hell?

What is this firestorm? Your gains following gopro's program P-RR-S routine? I have heard good things about this program, but daayyyuummm man! Those are sick gains.

What kind of split were you following?

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 10:16 PM

MonStar,, I have kept a full training log in the Journal section. Here is the link to it. And also, I'm not exaggerating my gains since all the online competitors in this contest had to submit before pictures, halfway pictures and then finally the after pictures for this contest.
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...threadid=21333 (Fires Online Comp Journal)

M.J.H. · 01-24-2004, 10:27 PM

Okay firestorm, thanks man, I am going to check it out right now.

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 10:28 PM

Ok my man. Please do. Any questions blast em away.

M.J.H. · 01-24-2004, 10:30 PM

Damn that journal is way too much talking and not enough journal entries, lol.

Do you have AIM firestorm?

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 10:35 PM

I know lots of whoring in there. I've requested people to keep the chatting down but there is little control. What is AIM?

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 10:37 PM

Hey MonStar,, I just took a look at your pics. LOOKING DAMN GOOD THERE MY MAN!!!! Excellent job.

heeholler · 01-24-2004, 10:39 PM

squanto there are many different routines that you can do, First of all, getting big arms is not just doing bi's & tri's. To grow big in arms you must do other things like squats, deads, benches power cleans, ect.. Core exercises. You gain LBM all over. And most important, DIET is what will make you grow.
Also, remember to keep switching up your exercise routine so your muscle wont adapt to the same routine over and over. Change the way you do your sets. For example, bench press first then incline bench. The next time you do chest, do incline bench first, then bench. Keep your muscles guessing. This goes for all exercises. And use dumbells intsaed of barbells to help you with stabilizer muscles. Many thing you have to learn to get them BIG ARMS.

M.J.H. · 01-24-2004, 10:40 PM

AIM is just AOL Instant Messenger, nothing special. Go to AIM.com to download it, it's free. Similar to Yahoo MSG and MSN MSG, but a little easier to use if you ask me.

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 10:42 PM

ohhh ok bro. I thought it was some new workout info that slipped by me. hahahahaha

M.J.H. · 01-24-2004, 10:43 PM

LOL.

Nope, no new workout. Lemme know if you get it though, have some questions asked P-RR-S, thanks.

Quote:

Hey MonStar,, I just took a look at your pics. LOOKING DAMN GOOD THERE MY MAN!!!! Excellent job.

Thanks for the kind words man, really appreciate it.

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 10:49 PM

ok I have it now. firestorm1075 is username

sara · 01-24-2004, 10:53 PM

What if you doing this:

Day 1- Back/Biceps
Day2- Off
Day3- Chest/Triceps
Day4- Off
Day5- Shoulders/ABS (some Biceps)

OR

Back/Chest
Biceps/Triceps
Shoulders/ABS/some biceps

firestorm · 01-24-2004, 11:01 PM

Sara, I've done them both and I liked them both although that second routine is a damn killer on chest/back day if your training heavy. I found that at my age 41 I would begin to loose some intensity on the 2nd bodypart and don't feel it was getting the full benifit but that is still a popular split.

sara · 01-24-2004, 11:10 PM

firestorm, what you think of this ?

Back/chest day :

X4 wide grip lat pull down
X3 close grip row cable
X3 seated row machine
X4 DB chest press
X3 DB incline flye
X3 lever pec fly
X3 machine chest press

sara · 01-24-2004, 11:15 PM

Biceps/Triceps day:

x 3 DB curls
x4 Barbell curl
x3 Cable curls
x4 Seated biceps Machine curl
x4 DB extensions
x3 seated dip machine
x3 press down machine

Shoulders day:

x4 DB Shoulder press
x3 DB lateral raise (standing)
x3 DB lateral raise (bent)
x3 DB upright row
x3 DB front raise
x3 DB Shrugs

derekisdman · 01-24-2004, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by firestorm
for the record: regarding gains from my split version and GOPROS POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK workout, these are my stats from this past September 29th thru November 1st and 01/08.

................09/29...............11/01
chest: .......47 1/2".............49
upper arm:..16 1/4".............17 1/2
forarms:......13 1/2.............14 1/2

Firestorm,

I know you used to be bigger many years ago and then lost some size; so wouldn't you attribute much of your fast gains to muscle memory?

firestorm · 01-25-2004, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sara
firestorm, what you think of this ?

Back/chest day :

X4 wide grip lat pull down
X3 close grip row cable
X3 seated row machine

Above I'd like to see a T-Bar row, db row or barbell row 2nd and then either the Closge grip cable row or seated row. Keep machines and cables last in most instances.

X4 DB chest press
X3 DB incline flye
X3 lever pec fly
X3 machine chest press

This is very nice but for every other workout or 3rd workout. I'd alternate the machine Bench presses and DB Bench press every other workout in the number 1 and number 2 postions and keeping the flies last. Every 3rd workout placing the bench press last for change is a pretty good idea and I do something similar myself exept my 3rd workout it's a drop set.

firestorm · 01-25-2004, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sara
Biceps/Triceps day:

x 3 DB curls
x4 Barbell curl
x3 Cable curls
x4 Seated biceps Machine curl
x4 DB extensions
x3 seated dip machine
x3 press down machine

Ok Sara I love the bicep excercises very much but I'd do 2 things differently.
1. Barbell curls are like the grand daddy to bicep training as the squat is to legs, bench press is to chest thus placing it 1st in the lineup followed by the cable curls then EITHER the Cable curls or Seated bicep machine curls but not both. 10 sets is more then adequate.

As for Triceps I'm now assuming your just looking for toning because your basically using all finishing excercises. DB extensions are primarily performed last also. Seated dip machine is the only excercise that really gives the workout any debth.

Shoulders day:

x4 DB Shoulder press
x3 DB lateral raise (standing)
x3 DB lateral raise (bent)
x3 DB upright row
x3 DB front raise
x3 DB Shrugs

Back is beautiful Good workout

firestorm · 01-25-2004, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by derekisdman
Firestorm,

I know you used to be bigger many years ago and then lost some size; so wouldn't you attribute much of your fast gains to muscle memory?

Very very good point Derek and I would absolutely attibute some of my gains to just that but,, I keep logs books from as far back as 1980 and to be totally honest with you,, this was not my 1st long layoff due to injury. In the past after layoffs yes size came back as well as strength but honestly, never this quick and in fact, I haven't done pullups with weight around my waist in over 10 years. I know for a fact I'm stronger now then I've been since going natural back in 1990. Now honestly, I have no reason to sell Gopros workout expecially since it's free so I have no reason to fabricate anything or give credit where it isn't deserved. I swear by the workout as well as my supplementation. Good point though and you get 5 extra points for paying attention to details and my history. Your correct as you said, I was much bigger "many" years ago but I was also bigger then I am now and had better detail as short a time as 1 year ago. If you go to the old member picture section there are some older pics of me prior to my shoulder injury. I know in those pics my arms were 18inchs. I'm still under that.

derekisdman · 01-25-2004, 09:42 AM

Yeah, I wasn't doubting Gopros routine at all...I know a lot of people here use it and swear by it. I believe i'm going to give it a try here in a few weeks as well. Either way, now or then, you're still a beast fire!

01-24-2004, 08:02 PM	#1
squanto Fitness Celebrity Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cheese Cottage Posts: 1,430	back/biceps or back/triceps? BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com this is the routine ive just started: mon: chest/shoulders/triceps, abs wed: legs, abs fri: back/biceps, abs i heard that it might be better to do back/triceps on the same day... but that doesnt seem to make sense to me, as a lot of my back exercises use biceps, and chest exercises use triceps? if i switched it up to bakc/triceps and chest/biceps, would it be likely that id be overtraining my biceps and triceps, as i would be working them twice a week? would it make any noticible difference at all? thanks.

01-24-2004, 09:32 PM	#2
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	It depends on if you want to pre-exhaust the biceps or not. Personally, i prefer not to.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

01-24-2004, 10:03 PM	#6
M.J.H. Obsessed Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Delaware Posts: 3,587 Photos: 12	I personally have always preferred chest/triceps and back/biceps, but that's just me. When I hit my biceps indirectly on back day and then again directly on chest day, I feel like I am overtraining them like crazy. For me it's always best to hit your biceps when they're already warmed up, after rows, etc.
	Stats! 23 years old, 5'11.5", 206 lbs., ~8% bodyfat 380/455/655 bench/squat/deadlift (current) 405/495/675 bench/squat/deadlift (goals) The M.J.H. Chronicles

01-24-2004, 10:27 PM	#10
M.J.H. Obsessed Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Delaware Posts: 3,587 Photos: 12	Okay firestorm, thanks man, I am going to check it out right now.
	Stats! 23 years old, 5'11.5", 206 lbs., ~8% bodyfat 380/455/655 bench/squat/deadlift (current) 405/495/675 bench/squat/deadlift (goals) The M.J.H. Chronicles

01-24-2004, 10:30 PM	#12
M.J.H. Obsessed Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Delaware Posts: 3,587 Photos: 12	Damn that journal is way too much talking and not enough journal entries, lol. Do you have AIM firestorm?
	Stats! 23 years old, 5'11.5", 206 lbs., ~8% bodyfat 380/455/655 bench/squat/deadlift (current) 405/495/675 bench/squat/deadlift (goals) The M.J.H. Chronicles

01-24-2004, 09:50 PM	#4
squanto Fitness Celebrity Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cheese Cottage Posts: 1,430	thanks that helps. just one question tho... what did u mean about putting on arm size though? if i do chest-tris and back-bis would that would that be better for arm size? arm size is what i care about the most of all.

01-24-2004, 10:02 PM	#5
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	OK as mentioned above by Mono, you will pre-exhaust the bis on chest day and tris or Chest day. This means you basically did a mini workout for them prior to doing their primary workout for the week. I would suggest that since you are currently doing the opposite (chest/bis; back/tris,, log down your sets and lifts. On your next workouts do the push/push pull/pull method and take note of your reps and poundage. I can safely say they will not be as optimum as they were on the other split when the muscles are fresher. If you are really looking for massive arms, I'd suggest what I for one do. I prioritize my training by placing arms on their own day. day 1:Chest, 2: Back(and maybe shoulders if time permits), 3: legs. day 4 arms day 5 shoulders if I didnt get them in on back day. 6 and 7 off.

01-24-2004, 10:10 PM	#7
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	for the record: regarding gains from my split version and GOPROS POWER, REP RANGE, SHOCK workout, these are my stats from this past September 29th thru November 1st and 01/08. ................09/29...............11/01 chest: .......47 1/2".............49 upper arm:..16 1/4".............17 1/2 forarms:......13 1/2.............14 1/2

01-24-2004, 10:16 PM	#9
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	MonStar,, I have kept a full training log in the Journal section. Here is the link to it. And also, I'm not exaggerating my gains since all the online competitors in this contest had to submit before pictures, halfway pictures and then finally the after pictures for this contest. http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...threadid=21333 (Fires Online Comp Journal)

01-24-2004, 10:28 PM	#11
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	Ok my man. Please do. Any questions blast em away.

01-24-2004, 10:35 PM	#13
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	I know lots of whoring in there. I've requested people to keep the chatting down but there is little control. What is AIM?

01-24-2004, 10:37 PM	#14
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	Hey MonStar,, I just took a look at your pics. LOOKING DAMN GOOD THERE MY MAN!!!! Excellent job.

01-24-2004, 10:39 PM	#15
heeholler Mad As Toast Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Southwest Florida Posts: 2,811	squanto there are many different routines that you can do, First of all, getting big arms is not just doing bi's & tri's. To grow big in arms you must do other things like squats, deads, benches power cleans, ect.. Core exercises. You gain LBM all over. And most important, DIET is what will make you grow. Also, remember to keep switching up your exercise routine so your muscle wont adapt to the same routine over and over. Change the way you do your sets. For example, bench press first then incline bench. The next time you do chest, do incline bench first, then bench. Keep your muscles guessing. This goes for all exercises. And use dumbells intsaed of barbells to help you with stabilizer muscles. Many thing you have to learn to get them BIG ARMS.
	The statue of Liberty no longer reads "Bring us your tired, your hungry, your huddled masses..." Now she's holding a baseball bat and it reads "Bring It On."

01-24-2004, 10:40 PM	#16
M.J.H. Obsessed Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Delaware Posts: 3,587 Photos: 12	AIM is just AOL Instant Messenger, nothing special. Go to AIM.com to download it, it's free. Similar to Yahoo MSG and MSN MSG, but a little easier to use if you ask me.
	Stats! 23 years old, 5'11.5", 206 lbs., ~8% bodyfat 380/455/655 bench/squat/deadlift (current) 405/495/675 bench/squat/deadlift (goals) The M.J.H. Chronicles

01-24-2004, 10:42 PM	#17
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	ohhh ok bro. I thought it was some new workout info that slipped by me. hahahahaha

01-24-2004, 10:49 PM	#19
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	ok I have it now. firestorm1075 is username

01-24-2004, 10:53 PM	#20
sara cRaZy!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 6,304 Photos: 2	What if you doing this: Day 1- Back/Biceps Day2- Off Day3- Chest/Triceps Day4- Off Day5- Shoulders/ABS (some Biceps) OR Back/Chest Biceps/Triceps Shoulders/ABS/some biceps

01-24-2004, 11:01 PM	#21
firestorm P/RR/S Advisor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 7,765 Photos: 3	Sara, I've done them both and I liked them both although that second routine is a damn killer on chest/back day if your training heavy. I found that at my age 41 I would begin to loose some intensity on the 2nd bodypart and don't feel it was getting the full benifit but that is still a popular split.

01-24-2004, 11:10 PM	#22
sara cRaZy!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 6,304 Photos: 2	firestorm, what you think of this ? Back/chest day : X4 wide grip lat pull down X3 close grip row cable X3 seated row machine X4 DB chest press X3 DB incline flye X3 lever pec fly X3 machine chest press

01-24-2004, 11:15 PM	#23
sara cRaZy!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Earth Posts: 6,304 Photos: 2	Biceps/Triceps day: x 3 DB curls x4 Barbell curl x3 Cable curls x4 Seated biceps Machine curl x4 DB extensions x3 seated dip machine x3 press down machine Shoulders day: x4 DB Shoulder press x3 DB lateral raise (standing) x3 DB lateral raise (bent) x3 DB upright row x3 DB front raise x3 DB Shrugs

01-25-2004, 09:42 AM	#28
derekisdman RAWR! Elite Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,294	Yeah, I wasn't doubting Gopros routine at all...I know a lot of people here use it and swear by it. I believe i'm going to give it a try here in a few weeks as well. Either way, now or then, you're still a beast fire!
	Homer: Hey! I saved your life! That egg sandwich could have killed you by cholesterol. Lenny: Pfft, forget it, Homer. While it has been established that eggs contain cholesterol, it has not yet been proven conclusively that they actually raise the level of serum cholesterol in the human blood stream.