Isolating muscle groups....a myth?

Brak86 · 02-18-2004, 04:18 PM

Hey u all....ive always heard u cant isolate...or just work part of a muscle. For example....u cant "target" your lower abs only with reverse crunches or hanging leg lifts.....another example: you cant "target" your upper chest with incline bench. Im so confused cause i then hear that u need to do incline bench to make ure upper chest stronger....can someone explain this to me?

**Prince** · 02-18-2004, 04:51 PM

that is the jist of it...some will tell you can and some you cannot.

been debated/discussed here in several different threads.

you should do a search for things like "upper chest", "incline bench" ,"isolate chest", "upper abs", etc. you will find them.

Brak86 · 02-18-2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
that is the jist of it...some will tell you can and some you cannot.

been debated/discussed here in several different threads.

you should do a search for things like "upper chest", "incline bench" ,"isolate chest", "upper abs", etc. you will find them.

well i wanna know then why does everyone say it is necessary to do incline bench in order to get ure pecs stronger? And why does everyone say it is necessary to have incline bench in ure routine...or some kind of incline bench for ure "upper" chest?

Mr.No · 02-18-2004, 06:01 PM

Even tho pecs are one muscle and apparently contraction is the same for every excercise, inclines will develop your upper chest, flyes will develop the mid section and flat bench will develop the lower section. It is not possible however to develop just one without developing the other one a little bit as well, but you can target those specific areas more by performing these excercises. It's no secret that people who neglected flyes (me for example), did not develop mid section as much...and so on. Some might say it's genetics or diet, but I doubt it. I don't want to cause another debate here.
Just my 0.2c.

PreMier · 02-18-2004, 06:05 PM

Mr.No · 02-18-2004, 06:41 PM

So much for the originality, Premier...
I expected that from Prince.

**Prince** · 02-18-2004, 06:50 PM

yes, if you do inclines and nothing else you will get a big "upper" chest, and the rest will not grow.

Flex · 02-18-2004, 06:56 PM

this has been debated sooooooooo many f@cking times.

personally, i feel you can target a part of the muscle, but many people disagree......

"and that's all i got to say about thaaaaat"-Forrest Gump

nikegurl · 02-18-2004, 06:58 PM

how 'bout this. certain variations work better for certain people due to variances in our construction?

Mr.No · 02-18-2004, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikegurl
how 'bout this. certain variations work better for certain people due to variances in our construction?

Very diplomatic.

nikegurl · 02-18-2004, 07:16 PM

diplomatic in that it skirts the issue...we've seen the "battle" before where both sides offer anecdotal and scientific evidence supporting their view (can/can't isolate)

the thing is....no one ever changes their mind.

Brak86 · 02-18-2004, 07:21 PM

I apologize for not searching before i asked thois question...but i didnt remember that there were other similar threads....thanks for the input tho!

TwoWalks · 02-19-2004, 08:26 AM

Never been big on Myths or No for that matter. Never been big on scientific studies. I am a huge fan of try it before you buy it.

Try this:
Do 4 hard sets of incline and then write where the muscle gets sore the next day. rest the chest a week.

Do 4 hard sets of flat bench and then write down where the muscle gets sore. Rest the chest a week.

Do 4 hard sets of decline bench and then write down where the muscle gets sore. Compare the wheres and you will have the answer to the question for self.

This can be done for any exercise and its variations, hand positions and hand angles.

**Prince** · 02-19-2004, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TwoWalks
Never been big on Myths or No for that matter. Never been big on scientific studies. I am a huge fan of try it before you buy it.

Try this:
Do 4 hard sets of incline and then write where the muscle gets sore the next day. rest the chest a week.

Do 4 hard sets of flat bench and then write down where the muscle gets sore. Rest the chest a week.

Do 4 hard sets of decline bench and then write down where the muscle gets sore. Compare the wheres and you will have the answer to the question for self.

This can be done for any exercise and its variations, hand positions and hand angles.

it does not matter if you feel soreness is a specific area of a muscle, muscles grow as a whole, i.e. you may feel more soreness in the lower portion of your bicep after doing preacher curls, that means nothing, the lower portion of the bicep will not grow more than the rest of the muscle. If it did that implies that you can shape a muscle, which we know is physiologically impossible.

TwoWalks · 02-19-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
it does not matter if you feel soreness is a specific area of a muscle, muscles grow as a whole,

I agree that each muscle grows as awhole and that changing the shape is not possible. What I was getting at is more ... is a given exercise more affective based on the individual. Since each person is different as to how a muscle is attached the same exercise will not work exactly the same for each person. Sorry if it sounded like I believed that a bicep for example could change shape. OOPS

**Prince** · 02-19-2004, 12:26 PM

okay, so if the pec major is a single muscle, how can it grow in different places, i.e. the upper or lower portion?

Vieope · 02-19-2004, 12:43 PM

IMO .. muscle grows in a uniform way and that is it.
Per Analogy a muscle is like a balloon.

**Prince** · 02-19-2004, 12:50 PM

you're correct, I wanted to hear how he would explain it though.

Terok`Nor · 02-19-2004, 04:40 PM

what i've read is inclines recruit more chest fibres than flat, so by getting a better chest you get a better upper chest

camarosuper6 · 02-19-2004, 08:01 PM

While you cannot shape a muscle, I have read some very recent studies that DO suggest you can TARGET more fibers in an area of a muscle. I dont really even fully understand it, and defintely dont want to debate it, but even science can be wishy washy. I say do a variety of compound movements, and you cant go wrong either way

Willdebeast · 02-19-2004, 08:12 PM

incline is a lot harder than flat and i think it recruits the chest as well as muscles surounding the pec like your front delts

PreMier · 02-19-2004, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Willdebeast
incline is a lot harder than flat and i think it recruits the chest as well as muscles surounding the pec like your front delts

Thats why you need to be at 45deg or slightly lower. Most incline BB benches at gyms, I have noticed they are OVER 45 deg...

camarosuper6 · 02-19-2004, 08:30 PM

Premier I couldnt agree with you more. I HATE the incline benches at our gym. I feel like Im doing shoulder presses unless I squat in the seat so far my pants almost fall off.

**Prince** · 02-19-2004, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Willdebeast
incline is a lot harder than flat...

yup, the angle brings your delts more into play than your chest.

02-18-2004, 04:18 PM	#1
Brak86 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 230	Isolating muscle groups....a myth? Hey u all....ive always heard u cant isolate...or just work part of a muscle. For example....u cant "target" your lower abs only with reverse crunches or hanging leg lifts.....another example: you cant "target" your upper chest with incline bench. Im so confused cause i then hear that u need to do incline bench to make ure upper chest stronger....can someone explain this to me?
Brak86 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 230	Good, bad, im the guy with the gun-Army of Darkness Weight:147 pounds DB Incline Press: Repping 70 lbs in each hand. Standing curls: Repping 60 lbs (thats all i remember for now!)

02-18-2004, 04:51 PM	#2
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	that is the jist of it...some will tell you can and some you cannot. been debated/discussed here in several different threads. you should do a search for things like "upper chest", "incline bench" ,"isolate chest", "upper abs", etc. you will find them.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

02-18-2004, 06:05 PM	#5
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,055 Photos: 2
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

02-18-2004, 06:50 PM	#7
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	yes, if you do inclines and nothing else you will get a big "upper" chest, and the rest will not grow.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

02-18-2004, 06:56 PM	#8
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	this has been debated sooooooooo many f@cking times. personally, i feel you can target a part of the muscle, but many people disagree...... "and that's all i got to say about thaaaaat"-Forrest Gump
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

02-18-2004, 06:01 PM	#4
Mr.No Progressing... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the beach Posts: 73	Even tho pecs are one muscle and apparently contraction is the same for every excercise, inclines will develop your upper chest, flyes will develop the mid section and flat bench will develop the lower section. It is not possible however to develop just one without developing the other one a little bit as well, but you can target those specific areas more by performing these excercises. It's no secret that people who neglected flyes (me for example), did not develop mid section as much...and so on. Some might say it's genetics or diet, but I doubt it. I don't want to cause another debate here. Just my 0.2c.

02-18-2004, 06:41 PM	#6
Mr.No Progressing... Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the beach Posts: 73	So much for the originality, Premier... I expected that from Prince.

02-18-2004, 06:58 PM	#9
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	how 'bout this. certain variations work better for certain people due to variances in our construction?
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

02-18-2004, 07:16 PM	#11
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	diplomatic in that it skirts the issue...we've seen the "battle" before where both sides offer anecdotal and scientific evidence supporting their view (can/can't isolate) the thing is....no one ever changes their mind.
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

02-18-2004, 07:21 PM	#12
Brak86 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 230	I apologize for not searching before i asked thois question...but i didnt remember that there were other similar threads....thanks for the input tho!
Brak86 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 230	Good, bad, im the guy with the gun-Army of Darkness Weight:147 pounds DB Incline Press: Repping 70 lbs in each hand. Standing curls: Repping 60 lbs (thats all i remember for now!)

02-19-2004, 08:26 AM	#13
TwoWalks transformer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Mt Olympus Posts: 78 Photos: 2	Never been big on Myths or No for that matter. Never been big on scientific studies. I am a huge fan of try it before you buy it. Try this: Do 4 hard sets of incline and then write where the muscle gets sore the next day. rest the chest a week. Do 4 hard sets of flat bench and then write down where the muscle gets sore. Rest the chest a week. Do 4 hard sets of decline bench and then write down where the muscle gets sore. Compare the wheres and you will have the answer to the question for self. This can be done for any exercise and its variations, hand positions and hand angles.
	TwoWalks My Goal: To be better than yesterday

02-19-2004, 12:26 PM	#16
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	okay, so if the pec major is a single muscle, how can it grow in different places, i.e. the upper or lower portion?
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

02-19-2004, 12:43 PM	#17
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,815 Photos: 10	IMO .. muscle grows in a uniform way and that is it. Per Analogy a muscle is like a balloon.
	FURtherness

02-19-2004, 12:50 PM	#18
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,510 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 313	you're correct, I wanted to hear how he would explain it though.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips!

02-19-2004, 04:40 PM	#19
Terok`Nor Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 97	what i've read is inclines recruit more chest fibres than flat, so by getting a better chest you get a better upper chest

02-19-2004, 08:30 PM	#23
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,325	Premier I couldnt agree with you more. I HATE the incline benches at our gym. I feel like Im doing shoulder presses unless I squat in the seat so far my pants almost fall off.
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

02-19-2004, 08:01 PM	#20
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,325	While you cannot shape a muscle, I have read some very recent studies that DO suggest you can TARGET more fibers in an area of a muscle. I dont really even fully understand it, and defintely dont want to debate it, but even science can be wishy washy. I say do a variety of compound movements, and you cant go wrong either way
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

02-19-2004, 08:12 PM	#21
Willdebeast Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: canada Posts: 125	incline is a lot harder than flat and i think it recruits the chest as well as muscles surounding the pec like your front delts

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