glassman

Hello again. I'd like to hear some opinions. First off, I'm 6'1" 224 pounds and I dont really have much muscle mass. I've been lifting since September. First I started off with doing light weight high rep excersises. Since the end of December, I started doing heavy weight lower rep exersises after hearing (actually reading) that by challenging the muscle will make it grow. My workouts for upper body are 2 hours long and twice a week. I'm only really interested in upper body for now because I feel that I get a pretty good leg workout with bicycle riding. Some leg excersises I do. But I'm really concerened with upper body for now. My question is, how long did it take for you to see some muscle gain? I'm seeing some in me but I would think that it would be more. I've read that everyones body is different and I understand that. I'd just like to get an idea from other people as to how long it took them to see some gain. Oh...and I apologize if this has been asked before. There are so many thread here that its hard to find the exact one you're looking for.

dg806

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if you really want your upper body to grow, you MUST work your lower body.

www.sbmuscle.com

Paynne

Keep reading this board and do some searches. Don't lift more than an hour. Mine are usually 40 mins. Three days a week would be better. Listen to dg806's advice. Eat more CLEAN cals than your burning. Keep reading and learning.

...and it's taking me a long, long time.

165r

can't build a house without the foundation

"A camel would sooner pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man make it into heaven."
JESUS

Mudge

2 hours is too long. If you are 224 and not very muscular, then you should work everything and take advantage of the calories that you evidently are storing as fat.

You are going to have to nail down the training and diet, I am tall also and I know that its not easy, so you have to do things right or else you are going to be dissapointed in the long term.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

ArduousMeister

I am not trying to insult anyone here but it just blows my mind how many people feel it is not important to work your whole body.

With your legs making up the biggest muscle group in your body it is your best interest to develop that group. Like many people will tell you that the more muscle you have the more fat you will burn. So if your goal is to loose fat then it is in your best interest to work your legs.

I also agree that 2hrs of staight lifting is too long, try breaking your workout up a little bit and spreading it out.

"I've thrown up many times working out, but it's all worth it."- Arnold Schwarzenegger in Pumping Iron

HoldDaMayo

I don't do that much lower body... but just adding squats, leg extensions, calf raises, and weighted lunges has really helped my overall mass development, and also given my legs a nicer shape and look...

Are you kidding me????

glassman

Wait a minute! I do work my legs a little with weights. I have to be careful because of my knee. So squats and leg extensions are out! If I did those excersise, I wont be walking to well for a while.The bike takes care of the quads, believe me when I'm finnished going up steep hills. I do calf raises, lunges (they dont bother me too much) and hamstring extensions. I'm just having a hell of a time with upper body. Really all I'm trying to do here is prod you all for some info. Yeah I'd love to shorten my workouts. Thats the ultimate goal for me. I've got a question for Payne. You said three times per week. Are you saying hit each muscle three times per week or what? I'm trying to figure out how to do this within an hour or so and be able to not overtrain certain parts of the body. Thats what's getting me confused and I've also inquired about that in another thread I think. I dont know what the f@#k I'm doing really. I'm in my house doing this in my basement with no one telling me what or how to do it. I'm learning as I'm going. I was only just asking about your individual gain to give me a ball park idea as to how long it may take to get anywhere. I dont doubt that I'm doing things wrong.

brodus

Here's a good begininng high-rep "three times a week" total body workout. With a minute of rest between sets, you can get done in less than an hour:

BACK:
1x10-12 Lat Pulldown
1X10-12 Low Row
1x10-12 Hammer Iso Pulldown

CHEST:
1x10-12 Flat Bench
1x10-12 Incline Bench (or Iso Incline)
1x10-12 Decline Bench (or Iso Decline)

BICEPS:
1X10-12 DB Curls
1x10-12 Prechaer Curls
1x10-12 Hammer Curls

TRICEPS:
1x10-12 Tricep Pressdowns, nautilus-type machine
1x10-12 Rope Pressdowns, cable
1x10-12 Skullcrushers

LEGS:
(adjusted for your injury)
1x10-12 Hamstring Curls
1x10-12 Lunges
1x10-12 Calf Raises

SHOULDERS:
1x10-12 Military Press
1x10-12 Upright Row
1x10-12 Lateral Dumbell Raises

TRAPS:
2x10-12 Shoulder Shrugs


*Maintain strict form, and don't give yourself morethan 1:00 rest between sets*

You get 20 sets, and you hit your whole body three times a week. So y ou train pecs, for instance, 12 times a month, versus 4-6 times a month on typical splits (granted, those are for mass building)

Don't do cardio in the same sesssion as the weights. Try to get three cardio sessions in a week, preferrably on non-weight days.

As far as diet, Jodi has some great posts on here, and even a shopping list, so check them out.

Good luck!

glassman

Thank you very much for that routine. Is one set of each enough? I always thought of three sets. Those are more individual exersises that what I have been doing, but totaled is almost half.

CourtQueen

You aren't going to gain squat if you aren't eating right......

Paynne

I meant workout 3 times a week using a split that works each muscle group once a week. But Brodus's workout looks good also, especially if you're just starting out. There are many types of splits.

glassman

Ok thanks! Here's a question though, and it may sound stupid. Why cant you workout for two hours? Is there a negative reaction in some way?

brodus

glassman, you are acutally doing three sets for each body part--three different sets that each target slightly different groupings. If you do this with proper intensity, you will definitely feel it.

The workout I provided is good for a beginner who is learning proper form, getting comfortable with weights, and wants to lose fat. Most trainers will put you on this kind of workout for a couple months until you're ready to step up to more localized mass building. Right now, you're interested in learning core exercises, learning proper form, building a foundation. To go from not lifting at all to 20 sets of each body part once a week is not a good idea.

CourtQueen is right about diet. You can burn more calories, but if you're eating more than you burn, you're not going to get ripped.

glassman

Oh and by the way. I'm not taking suplements. Are you?

squanto

eventualy your body starts using your muscle for energy, so it can be counter-productive. its best to keep it under an hour if possible.

squanto

i would definately get my workout and eating plan under control before supplements. supplements get your nowhere if you dont have those things under control, but they can help some if you do.

brodus

You should at least take a good multi-vitamin and supplement with a protein shake. There are tons of good, inexpensive options for protein. Whey protein is best for fast absorption, tastes great, and its cheap and readily available: www.allthewhey.com, www.1fast400.com, www.bodybuilding.com

I would do that plus some essential fatty acids (EFA). Like some flax seed oil and CLA.

Other than those staples, I wouldn't suggest any hardcore supplementation until you know where your body is at after a couple months of training. You don't know how you will respond, so it doesn't make sense to spend money on things. You can get a gym membership for the cost of many monthly supplements.

Do you drink alcohol? This has a dramatic impact on your ability to lose fat.

glassman

No I dont drink too much anymore. I used to as well as get stoned which of course gives you the "munchies". But not anymore, every now and then maybe. You are all right that I have to get a grip on my diet. That's one of the obstacles I'm getting trying to get over. I'm not obese.

squanto

id have to disagree... i took supplements for years before getting my diet in order and it didnt do shit for me. food is FAR better than any supplement, and far more important IMO. plus its hard to see where youre going if youre confusing your body with all these supplements. i would just take one step at a time. maybe worry about supplements in a couple months when you feel youre making progress. the only exception is multivitamin, which i find makes no difference whether or not i take it anyway. the worst thing you can do is to think the supplements are gonna do all the work.

Kibull

Nobody seems to talk about them much anymore, but I would add deadlifts. I have knee problems too and deads are much easier on the knees - at least for me. I believe, as studies have suggested, that deads and squats are anabolic and will make your body wake up and take note that your serious. Work up in weight slowly. After you have mastered your form and have established a good base, go for it - HEAVY AND ALL OUT!!!!!! Scream yell and scare a few wussies at your gym. You'll grow, at least until you hit your genetic potential/limit. Good form can't be stressed enough with deadlifts. Bad form will hurt you and potentially seriously. I'd go light for a couple of months.

ALBOB

Have you tried front-squats? They take a great deal of pressure off the knees. I had knee surgery a bit over a year ago and if it weren't for front squats I'd be right back to where I was, walking on toothpicks.

Rules? You mean we have RULES for that???

Kibull

Glassman, I feel your pain - really! I dislocated my knee in 1991 - 25 years of aggressive skiing finally caught up with me when I hit a tree, hard! I Completely tore my ACL, PCL and the medial collateral was torn off of my femur, off of my tibia and tore in half - NO EXAGERATION! I have the X Rays to prove it. I'm only telling you this because you have to at least try & find way overcome this a DO heavy weights with your lower body. For me, I had to take a break from powerlifting/bodybuilding and began riding my bicycle. First on a stationary, then I slowly worked up to 40 miles + per day. After I felt like the joint was strong and stable, I then started back lifting slowly (high reps/low weight). Brodus has given a good program to develop the basics. Then and only then, you can start going heavy with lower reps. If you truly want to grow, you have to find a way to work your legs, back and abs (core) hard, and sorry but cycling won't do it. Also, I think Mudge has a point 2 hours is too long. Sure you see the pros doing that much and more, but they are on so much gear you can't imagine. Most of us with average or even above average genetics (even with gear) can overtrain if not careful. Develope your core, GO SUPER HARD, but not too much volume - get in and get out! Then, get out and eat a good meal. Good luck!

nmuriqi

I was just wondering why that is? I'm 19, not really training legs yet, just calves, and my upper body is pretty big. You're telling me as soon as i start training legs (eg: squats) my upper body will grow even further? WHY?

Kibull

I wish I could give you a scientific answer. I have read several studies that suggest working your legs is anabolic. I'll try and track down some resources for you - I think I may have something on this at home. I can say, if you follow this and some other hardcore sites you will hear the big boys saying the same thing. When I dislocated my knee, I had all the time in the world to train my upper body. I worked it like I never had, but only made minimal gains. After rehabing my knee (which took 2 years) and eventually getting back into heavy leg stuff, I began to grow again. I'm 40 now (I've been lifting since I was 16) and am totally convinced it's true. I think your body just has a way of realizing that you are serious and inturn reacts possitively with growth. Hard squats/deadlifts (and I mean hard and heavy -110%) will stimulate your whole body!

Charger

I agree!! High rep done to total, and I mean knee''s shaking failure will do the trick for overall growth.
To answer your question,

"My question is, how long did it take for you to see some muscle gain?"

One year. every year after has been slow but sure.

Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)