cytrix

type 2b fibers are very easy to damage through eccentric training, and those damaged fibers will be removed by the body with the help of cortisol which means muscle loss.

if you avoid the eccentric part as much as possible while still keeping control of the movement, you will greatly reduce cortisol output and the body will not just repair those 2b fibers, but instead it will come to a fusion of 2b's with sattelite cells with the help of IGF-1 to form huge 2C fibers! thats why drug users have such great muscle growth, they block cortisol receptors, reduce cortisol, and increase IGF-1. that way those people can train very traumatic and still get that fiber fusion going. but naturals shall be able to also be able to get that fusion and get 2c fibers, if they train accordingly, meaning low eccentric trauma.

this is what i have heared, has anybody any experience with this kind of training? i would like to know, if you should maybe do this kind of training alternating with regular training (more eccentric work), for optimum muscle development?

THE_GAME

Hey cytrix, I don't know what the heck your talking about but it sounds interesting. Can you explain this more in depth so us people can understand what your talking about? Thanks

The Game

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crowman

Vince Gironda was the first to show people that you gain strenght much more quickly by concentrating on the 'negative' part of an exercise.

-Crowman
MASS ABOVE ALL

cytrix

you are not supposed to stop working out using a controlled and slower eccentric movement alltogether. this definitely is important for hypertrophy in general, but it's regarding the type 2a muscle fibers. but there are type 2b's which are very low in stress resistance and those damaged fibers will either be REMOVED = MUSCLE LOSS or FUSE WITH SATTELITE CELLS TO BECOME BIG FIBERS CALLED 2C = MUSCLE GAIN. it's true that eccentric trauma is very efficient for 2a hypertrophy, but to get those 2c fibers (instead of loosing 2b's) you have to train sometimes without eccentric stress. this is supposed to be the newest research.

i was thinking it might be good to alternate between a highly traumatic workout and these low traumatic ones, i mean you have to switch up anyway to avoid overtraining. i don't know if it may be better to go low traumatic for a couple of weeks in a row though.

THE_GAME

so basically what you are saying is that you should focus more on the negatives of the rep for every workout and this way you will get better results, right?

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cytrix

no, just the opposite, to get that fusion of 2b's with sattelite cells into much bigger 2c's you have to avoid the eccentric part as much as possible. fred hatfield incorperates those type of workouts in his training. it's known as the abc workout.
workout c = highly traumatic/focus on eccentric movement (lower the weight very slow)/giantsets
workout b = moderate/avoid eccentric part as much as possible
workout a = lite/avoid eccentric part as much as possible

this is just one way to incorparate this into a periodirized routine. i personally don't like doing giant sets. i thought of doing this non traumatic (avoiding eccentric part) as one of my inbetween high intensity workouts for recovery and possibly this 2c fusion. i just don't know if it will work if done only sporadically, or if you would have to do it for like 2 weeks in a row or so.

THE_GAME

2c's, satellite cells, i feel like your talking another language dude. Can you just explain it in plain english bro.

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Maki Riddington

From what I'm gathering you're saying that eliminating the eccentric portion of a lift is a good thing and eccentric contractions are a bad thing?
If so I think that is a bunch of nonsense.

Charger

This may sound like a dumb question but how are you going to avoid essentric movement? I look at flat BB bench, are you going to almost allow the weight to drop on your chest? I've seen a guy do this but he wasn't all there either.

Can't never did nothin,(Dedicated to my father)

cytrix

no that's not what i was saying! Of course eccentrics are the most intense for muscle growth, but there is another way to train IN ADDITION/ALTERNATION WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO TRAIN WITH LOW INTENSITY anyhow, to avoid overtraining, and this might be a good way to do it, while still getting a benefit you otherwise would not get, get it???

THE_GAME

so your saying to use less intensity to avoid overtraining?

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cytrix

in my opinion you need to cycle intensity to avoid overtaining if you were to lift stongly traumatic with a lot of eccentric focus all the time. some people may disagree and say they always go all out. anyway, if you feel like me that you need to cycle intensity, then it may be a good idea to do those low intensity workouts in the way that you avoid the eccentric part as much as possible (machines are great for that, if you let the weight down quick, yet controlled somewhat). that way you can take advantage of that fiber fusion i talked about. it's something kinda new, and i just thought i share it w/you all. you may wanna try it or not, its up to you all.