Most Effective way to Bench

Arthur2004 · 04-04-2004, 03:29 AM

Which is best for chest development and which is best for strength

I have seen so many different ways i am getting confused

i see people doing them all slow .. i see people doing them fast,,, wats the difference,,, and wat rep range is best

i persoanlly alternate,... 1 week(power): 4-6, 2nd week(RR):6-8, 3rd week*(rr): 8-10

i tried them them fast the other day and it felt pretty good...but which is best

Chris52686 · 04-04-2004, 07:55 PM

Well, rep range is different for everyone. I pyramid with my first set being 6 reps, second 5, 3rd 4reps, and final set of 3reps. I finish it off with a set of negatives for five reps of 15lbs over my max.

Todd Bostrom · 04-04-2004, 08:03 PM

For strength use 5x5. Start with a weight you can easily complete the reps. Depending on your strength level, add 5-20lbs per week. Most people would add 10lbs per week and is what i would recommend.

Westsiders will tell you speed is key. From my experience speed may play a role, but I feel not to the same degree as they do. It's more important for guys who wear bench shirts.

NickB · 04-04-2004, 08:18 PM

What is a "Negative" ?

**Mudge** · 04-04-2004, 08:25 PM

The negative portion of the rep, normally when people refer to a "negative" they may mean an extended slow rep for the last, or sometimes complete sets of negatives only for breaking plateus.

Todd Bostrom · 04-04-2004, 08:26 PM

Negatives are where you use more than your 1rm and contronl the weight on the way down and have your spotter help you lift the weight back up.

OmarJackson · 04-04-2004, 09:52 PM

always push the bar as fast as possible on the concentric (use compensatory acceleration). obviously though if you're using weights close to your max, the fastest you'll be abel to push the bar is very slow.

Arthur2004 · 04-05-2004, 12:16 PM

wats are negatives good for?

ALBOB · 04-05-2004, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OmarJackson
always push the bar as fast as possible on the concentric (use compensatory acceleration).

I'm not going to say this statement is wrong, just that you shouldn't say "always" in this case. True, if you're training for speed events then pushing the bar faster is good advice. If you're training for size/strength, slow is the way to go. One of the most important factors to building muscle is Time Under Tension (TUT). The more TUT you have the more muscle fibers you stimulate. Also, using excessive speed when lifting is VERY hard on the joints and will come back to haunt you in the long run.

jaybol10 · 04-05-2004, 01:47 PM

so is the rule of thumb to increase your max every week by 10lbs?

so if i did dumbells bench today 65lbs each hand for 4 reps then next week I should do 75 for 4 reps?

**Mudge** · 04-05-2004, 01:53 PM

There is a powerlifter at my gym who does nearly everything rapidly, I hurt just watching him. He is naturally overweight so I assume his genetics take it much better than my own, the body is NOT a rubber band, a little speed is one thing but non-stop training like that IMO for my body is completely stupid.

**Mudge** · 04-05-2004, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaybol10
so is the rule of thumb to increase your max every week by 10lbs?

If you can increase your max every week by 10 pounds you either aren't trying or you are one gifted SOB. When a person is just starting out 5-10 pounds a week for a short period of time is possible on compound lifts.

Plus you are using dumbells as an example, 10 pounds a dumbell per week would tell me you weren't trying the previous week, or now you aren't just gifted but you are a reincarnated Greek God.

In 3 1/2 months you would be out-lifting Ronnie Coleman.

Hanz29 · 04-05-2004, 01:55 PM

A faster contraction is supposed to get your Type 2 fibers to do the work......I'm not sure, but I think most of the size and strength gains come from these types of fibers- and, I think, TUT applies to the negative part of the contraction-

jaybol10 · 04-05-2004, 01:57 PM

damn Mudge you figured me out...can you guess what god i am?

**Mudge** · 04-05-2004, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanz29
and, I think, TUT applies to the negative part of the contraction-

When I look at TUT I count the whole rep, TUT applies in any way you want. If you want to count time for the negative go for it, you can utilize a barrage of techniques, you dont just have to lift one way and one way only, but it means the entire rep.

1/2 second up and 3 1/2 seconds down is still TUT.

Hanz29 · 04-05-2004, 01:58 PM

It works for me Mudge- my max is currently 6,285.....by next week it will be 6,295

**Mudge** · 04-05-2004, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanz29
It works for me Mudge- my max is currently 6,285.....by next week it will be 6,295

I see I have been doing things wrong all these years, somehow when I try to do that I just dont make it

Eggs · 04-05-2004, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaybol10
damn Mudge you figured me out...can you guess what god i am?

Oooh Oooh, I know! "Io" isnt it?

The Heifer Maiden!

**Mudge** · 04-05-2004, 02:27 PM

Nike? Crest?

I forget which are Greek/Roman, not into mythology.

ALBOB · 04-05-2004, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanz29
A faster contraction is supposed to get your Type 2 fibers to do the work......I'm not sure, but I think most of the size and strength gains come from these types of fibers-

You're correct, a majority of muscular hypertrophy comes from Fast Twitch Muscle Fibers. The distinction though is that unless you're performing two to three HUNDRED reps per set you're still using fast twitch fibers when you lift, regardless if you perform the lift fast or slow. Fast twitch fibers give you short bursts of very intense strength. Slow twitch fibers give you very long, steady output. Fast twitch = weight lifting. Slow twitch = marathon running. Perform you lifts slooooooowly and save your joints.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hanz29 I think, TUT applies to the negative part of the contraction-

Nope, it's both positive AND negative. I guess it should actually by TTUT (TOTAL Time Under Tension) It doesn't matter if the weight is going up or down, if the muscles are working they're under tension.

**Mudge** · 04-05-2004, 03:23 PM

The biggest guys save for one that I have seen lift, all lift SLOWLY. Not saying that is the only way or even the best way, but it sure keeps you away from injury and when you start benching into the 400s and stuff I'd certainly suggest it unless you have the genetics to somehow do otherwise. I know most of the time nowdays I have to lift slowly or I start hurting and I feel I approach the danger zone.

jaybol10 · 04-05-2004, 04:00 PM

Nope mudge not Nike or Crest....think more along the lines of Ghostbusters

ALBOB · 04-05-2004, 04:16 PM

Gozer the Gozarian?

No, it's the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.

Todd Bostrom · 04-05-2004, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaybol10
so is the rule of thumb to increase your max every week by 10lbs?

so if i did dumbells bench today 65lbs each hand for 4 reps then next week I should do 75 for 4 reps?

If your 4 reps max is 65lb DB's, you would start around 45's if you are doing 4 reps sets. Then you would add 5lbs to each DB every week.

Michael D · 04-06-2004, 01:54 AM

Why would you do that?

If 65x4 was my max, why wouldn't I do that until I could get 1 or 2 more reps and then move the weight up?

And about the negatives. I have actually read that the only hypertrophy that happens, takes place only during the negative portion of the rep. That was in an add for Soloflex.

I have recently read that more tissue tearing occurs during negatives. A muscle tears more while being lengthened under tension than when being contracted under tension.

jaybol10 · 04-06-2004, 11:14 AM

ALBOB you got it....Stay Puft!!! lol

me and my fat ass
Today sucked... I was out late on Sunday night and got up for a good routine on Monday.. however Last night I was sooo tired from being up late and putting in a killer workout that my lazy ass slept through my workout and made me late for work by 45 min,,,

Excuses suck...my fat ass is nothing but a big excuse!!!

jaybol10 · 04-06-2004, 11:19 AM

Well my typical routine with the DB presses recently went like this.

35lbs for 15 reps Warmup
45lbs for reps of10min 12 max..I got 12
55lbs for reps of 8min 10max...I got 9
65lbs for reps of 6 ... I got 4 only because my concerntration was busted up by two guys that were being assholes right next to me.

So do I increase it after I nail 6 reps? or do I try to get 8 reps with 65 before I go to 70lbs?

ALBOB · 04-06-2004, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michael D I have actually read that the only hypertrophy that happens, takes place only during the negative portion of the rep. That was in an add for Soloflex.

Be careful where you get your information. Soloflex also says you can get a body like those on their commercials by using nothing but their machines. Yeah, right.

The problem with that statement is their use of the word "only". Muscular hypertrophy ONLY occurs during the negative phase? Not hardly. True, by neglecting the negative portion of a lift you're missing out on a large portion of beneficial TUT, but it's not the ONLY time hypertrophy occurs.

Arthur2004 · 04-06-2004, 01:03 PM

so wat builds the muscle? is it the TUT? not just the pushing.... bring it down slowly helps too?"

04-04-2004, 03:29 AM	#1
Arthur2004 Phat Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 265 Photos: 8	Most Effective way to Bench Which is best for chest development and which is best for strength I have seen so many different ways i am getting confused i see people doing them all slow .. i see people doing them fast,,, wats the difference,,, and wat rep range is best i persoanlly alternate,... 1 week(power): 4-6, 2nd week(RR):6-8, 3rd week*(rr): 8-10 i tried them them fast the other day and it felt pretty good...but which is best
	Kool Pic i took with my Camera of me flexing

04-04-2004, 07:55 PM	#2
Chris52686 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Charlotte,NC Posts: 91	Well, rep range is different for everyone. I pyramid with my first set being 6 reps, second 5, 3rd 4reps, and final set of 3reps. I finish it off with a set of negatives for five reps of 15lbs over my max.
	Stats Age-18 Weight-195 Bench-290 Squat-335 Power Clean-225 Deadlift-405

04-04-2004, 08:03 PM	#3
Todd Bostrom Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31	For strength use 5x5. Start with a weight you can easily complete the reps. Depending on your strength level, add 5-20lbs per week. Most people would add 10lbs per week and is what i would recommend. Westsiders will tell you speed is key. From my experience speed may play a role, but I feel not to the same degree as they do. It's more important for guys who wear bench shirts.
	Do you want to get real strong? myspace.com/zlastbook

04-04-2004, 08:25 PM	#5
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,070 Photos: 1	The negative portion of the rep, normally when people refer to a "negative" they may mean an extended slow rep for the last, or sometimes complete sets of negatives only for breaking plateus.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

04-04-2004, 08:26 PM	#6
Todd Bostrom Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31	Negatives are where you use more than your 1rm and contronl the weight on the way down and have your spotter help you lift the weight back up.
	Do you want to get real strong? myspace.com/zlastbook

04-04-2004, 08:18 PM	#4
NickB Damn, so many new faces. Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: California Posts: 498	What is a "Negative" ?

04-04-2004, 09:52 PM	#7
OmarJackson Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 299	always push the bar as fast as possible on the concentric (use compensatory acceleration). obviously though if you're using weights close to your max, the fastest you'll be abel to push the bar is very slow.
	Foreman_Rules could masturbate with one hand and finger his own anus with the other at the same time. he is proud of this fact.

04-05-2004, 12:16 PM	#8
Arthur2004 Phat Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 265 Photos: 8	wats are negatives good for?
	Kool Pic i took with my Camera of me flexing

04-05-2004, 01:47 PM	#10
jaybol10 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 45	so is the rule of thumb to increase your max every week by 10lbs? so if i did dumbells bench today 65lbs each hand for 4 reps then next week I should do 75 for 4 reps?

04-05-2004, 01:53 PM	#11
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,070 Photos: 1	There is a powerlifter at my gym who does nearly everything rapidly, I hurt just watching him. He is naturally overweight so I assume his genetics take it much better than my own, the body is NOT a rubber band, a little speed is one thing but non-stop training like that IMO for my body is completely stupid.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

04-05-2004, 01:55 PM	#13
Hanz29 on my way to ISSA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Illinois Posts: 376	A faster contraction is supposed to get your Type 2 fibers to do the work......I'm not sure, but I think most of the size and strength gains come from these types of fibers- and, I think, TUT applies to the negative part of the contraction-
	Vote Quimby!!

04-05-2004, 01:57 PM	#14
jaybol10 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 45	damn Mudge you figured me out...can you guess what god i am?

04-05-2004, 01:58 PM	#16
Hanz29 on my way to ISSA Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Illinois Posts: 376	It works for me Mudge- my max is currently 6,285.....by next week it will be 6,295
	Vote Quimby!!

04-05-2004, 02:27 PM	#19
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,070 Photos: 1	Nike? Crest? I forget which are Greek/Roman, not into mythology.

04-05-2004, 03:23 PM	#21
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,070 Photos: 1	The biggest guys save for one that I have seen lift, all lift SLOWLY. Not saying that is the only way or even the best way, but it sure keeps you away from injury and when you start benching into the 400s and stuff I'd certainly suggest it unless you have the genetics to somehow do otherwise. I know most of the time nowdays I have to lift slowly or I start hurting and I feel I approach the danger zone.

04-05-2004, 04:00 PM	#22
jaybol10 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 45	Nope mudge not Nike or Crest....think more along the lines of Ghostbusters

04-05-2004, 04:16 PM	#23
ALBOB IDIOT SAVANT Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: An alternate reality. Posts: 10,177	Gozer the Gozarian? No, it's the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man.
	Rules? You mean we have RULES for that???

04-06-2004, 01:54 AM	#25
Michael D Working on a new me! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: East Coast US Posts: 393 Photos: 4	Why would you do that? If 65x4 was my max, why wouldn't I do that until I could get 1 or 2 more reps and then move the weight up? And about the negatives. I have actually read that the only hypertrophy that happens, takes place only during the negative portion of the rep. That was in an add for Soloflex. I have recently read that more tissue tearing occurs during negatives. A muscle tears more while being lengthened under tension than when being contracted under tension.
	"Fear profits man nothing."

04-06-2004, 11:14 AM	#26
jaybol10 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 45	ALBOB you got it....Stay Puft!!! lol me and my fat ass Today sucked... I was out late on Sunday night and got up for a good routine on Monday.. however Last night I was sooo tired from being up late and putting in a killer workout that my lazy ass slept through my workout and made me late for work by 45 min,,, Excuses suck...my fat ass is nothing but a big excuse!!!

04-06-2004, 11:19 AM	#27
jaybol10 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 45	Well my typical routine with the DB presses recently went like this. 35lbs for 15 reps Warmup 45lbs for reps of10min 12 max..I got 12 55lbs for reps of 8min 10max...I got 9 65lbs for reps of 6 ... I got 4 only because my concerntration was busted up by two guys that were being assholes right next to me. So do I increase it after I nail 6 reps? or do I try to get 8 reps with 65 before I go to 70lbs?

04-06-2004, 01:03 PM	#29
Arthur2004 Phat Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 265 Photos: 8	so wat builds the muscle? is it the TUT? not just the pushing.... bring it down slowly helps too?"
	Kool Pic i took with my Camera of me flexing