Incline for upper chest?

PreMier · 04-21-2004, 08:24 PM

I thought that the people at avant were smarter than this...

http://forum.avantlabs.com/?act=ST&f=9&t=9722&hl=&

nikegurl · 04-21-2004, 08:28 PM

ya little troublemaker.

Var · 04-21-2004, 08:28 PM

Christ! Get out of that debate while you can. It never goes well.

Var · 04-21-2004, 08:32 PM

I remember when PreMier thought this, too!

http://ironmagazineforums.com/showth...ht=upper+chest

PreMier · 04-21-2004, 08:36 PM

Hey, I learned! The people at avant want to fancy talk, and not listen to any reason.

PreMier · 04-21-2004, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikegurl
ya little troublemaker.

Yes, I am a bad boy!

Var · 04-21-2004, 08:45 PM

I'm gonna go get your back and then get out. I hate those debates.

Var · 04-21-2004, 08:50 PM

I feel better now. I'm sure I'll be taking a flaming anytime now.

PreMier · 04-21-2004, 08:57 PM

LOL, thanks man! Haha, the damn IM Robot or what the fuck ever, moved this to training! Stupid robot...

Var · 04-21-2004, 09:00 PM

LOL. Didnt know we had a robot here.

Couldnt let a fellow IM'er get slammed. Especially since you were right!

Vieope · 04-21-2004, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PreMier
I thought that the people at avant were smarter than this...

I warned you about big words.

**Prince** · 04-21-2004, 10:51 PM

my conclusion:

go to Avant forums for supplement advice, but not for training advice!

**gopro** · 04-22-2004, 08:45 AM

Inclines DO build upper chest...sorry, but they do.

nikegurl · 04-22-2004, 10:54 AM

let the games begin.

(or should I say continue?)

**gopro** · 04-22-2004, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikegurl
let the games begin.

(or should I say continue?)

No, there won't be any games. I have been in this long enough and have far too much experience to KNOW that incline bench presses target and affect more clavicular chest fibers than regular benching.

I will not argue it in the same way I do not bother arguing the efficacy of glutamine anymore.

Var · 04-22-2004, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
my conclusion:

go to Avant forums for supplement advice, but not for training advice!

nikegurl · 04-22-2004, 12:53 PM

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic toward you gopro. You know how this debate goes whenever it comes up though. Someone will say that they "feel" inclines more in their upper chest. Someone else will say it isn't possible to contract a portion of the muscle...and no one will change their minds.

**CowPimp** · 04-22-2004, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
No, there won't be any games. I have been in this long enough and have far too much experience to KNOW that incline bench presses target and affect more clavicular chest fibers than regular benching.

I will not argue it in the same way I do not bother arguing the efficacy of glutamine anymore.

Although it does stimulate the fibers in the upper portion of the chest more, the muscle still grows as a whole from what I understand. Still, it is important to stimulate all the fibers in a muscle for optimal growth which is why varied movements are important.

**gopro** · 04-22-2004, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nikegurl
I wasn't trying to be sarcastic toward you gopro. You know how this debate goes whenever it comes up though. Someone will say that they "feel" inclines more in their upper chest. Someone else will say it isn't possible to contract a portion of the muscle...and no one will change their minds.

I know that NG

I DO realize how this "debate" goes, but in my mind, there is no debate. Reality is simply reality. The fact that the sun rises and sets each day has proven to me that it will happen again tomorrow...for me, its just the same with inclines and upper pecs.

**gopro** · 04-22-2004, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CowPimp
Although it does stimulate the fibers in the upper portion of the chest more, the muscle still grows as a whole from what I understand. Still, it is important to stimulate all the fibers in a muscle for optimal growth which is why varied movements are important.

The chest is broken up into pec major and minor, and although you CANNOT isolate one completely from the other, you can affect the fibers of one "area" over another by changing angles. If the chest was affected as a whole simply by pressing at any angle, then the entire chest would get sore from flat benches, and the entire chest would get sore from incline presses...it simply does not happen this way.

Ooops, I'm debating. Stopping now.

Saturday Fever · 04-22-2004, 02:47 PM

Pec minor is located underneath pec major. There are not distinct sections or parts of the chest.

That said, I think that if we all refer to the "Sliding Filament Theory of Muscle Contraction" science would be suggesting that while you cannot isolate a portion of any one muscle, you most certainly CAN emphasize a portion of one muscle. This doesn't mean incline is working your "upper chest" it simply means that incline is emphasizing the top portion of the chest. This would also go to explain and justify why certain portions of the chest will become sore when pressing from different angles.

And science knows best.

**Prince** · 04-22-2004, 02:47 PM

so, if you do preacher curls and the lower portion of your bicep feels more sore than the rest of your bicep, the lower portion will grow, hence, it's possible to shape muscles?

Saturday Fever · 04-22-2004, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
so, if you do preacher curls and the lower portion of your bicep feels more sore than the rest of your bicep, the lower portion will grow, hence, it's possible to shape muscles?

Well see, this isn't what the sliding filament theory tells us. The sliding filament theory simply says that by changing angles we can emphasize parts of a muscle. This doesn't mean the muscle is being "shaped" or "isolated". It simply means the muscle contraction in portions of a muscle can be tighter than in others.

Science currently doesn't say anything about the benefits of said tighter contractions or if there are any benefits. Hence why people vehemently argue to the "impossibility" of "working the upper chest" or the "possibility" of "working the upper chest."

I just used way too many "" thingies.

**Prince** · 04-22-2004, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Well see, this isn't what the sliding filament theory tells us. The sliding filament theory simply says that by changing angles we can emphasize parts of a muscle. This doesn't mean the muscle is being "shaped" or "isolated". It simply means the muscle contraction in portions of a muscle can be tighter than in others.

Science currently doesn't say anything about the benefits of said tighter contractions or if there are any benefits. Hence why people vehemently argue to the "impossibility" of "working the upper chest" or the "possibility" of "working the upper chest."

I just used way too many "" thingies.

my response was actually to what GP posted.

Tha Don · 04-22-2004, 06:20 PM

The reason BB use so many different exercises is to sculpt and put on muscle in different areas at different rates, and therefore get a well proportioned phyisic

Its like you have exercises that are 'mass builders' and others that are better for 'definition' (isolation exercises)

By hitting the muscle from different angle you can stimulate better growth on the muscle, and help to bring up areas that might be holding back its growth

This is what many articles would lead ppl to believe, are you saying this is all rubbish?

I mean do incline curls build bicep length and concentration curls build bicep peak? or is this total BS?

peace

**CowPimp** · 04-22-2004, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gopro
The chest is broken up into pec major and minor, and although you CANNOT isolate one completely from the other, you can affect the fibers of one "area" over another by changing angles. If the chest was affected as a whole simply by pressing at any angle, then the entire chest would get sore from flat benches, and the entire chest would get sore from incline presses...it simply does not happen this way.

Ooops, I'm debating. Stopping now.

I was in agreement with the fact "that incline bench presses target and affect more clavicular chest fibers than regular benching." Despite the fact that these fibers are stimulated more does not make only that portion of the pectoralis grow. The muscle still grows as a whole.

So, you can target a certain part of a muscle, but it will grow in line with what your genetics dictate and how the rest of that muscle grows.

I'll try to find where I read this again, but I did read that although you aren't going to make your upper chest grow without your lower chest you still need to stimulate all the fibers in the chest for optimal growth. This means that 9 sets of decline press is not as effective as 3 sets of incline, decline, and flat because the fibers throughout the chest are all stimulated sufficiently.

Saturday Fever · 04-22-2004, 06:23 PM

Quote:

This is what many articles would lead ppl to believe, are you saying this is all rubbish?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Magazines give bad advice so you'll turn to the supplements that are advertised in their magazine. It's how they make money.

Quote:

I mean do incline curls build bicep length and concentration curls build bicep peak? or is this total BS?

It's total BS. Science proves this.

04-21-2004, 08:24 PM	#1
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,300 Photos: 2	Incline for upper chest? I thought that the people at avant were smarter than this... http://forum.avantlabs.com/?act=ST&f=9&t=9722&hl=&
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

04-21-2004, 08:28 PM	#2
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	ya little troublemaker.
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

04-21-2004, 08:28 PM	#3
Var Filthy Animal Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finally back in New England!! Posts: 5,438	Christ! Get out of that debate while you can. It never goes well.
	But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you. -N. Machiavelli

04-21-2004, 08:32 PM	#4
Var Filthy Animal Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finally back in New England!! Posts: 5,438	I remember when PreMier thought this, too! http://ironmagazineforums.com/showth...ht=upper+chest
	But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you. -N. Machiavelli

04-21-2004, 08:36 PM	#5
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,300 Photos: 2	Hey, I learned! The people at avant want to fancy talk, and not listen to any reason.
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

04-21-2004, 08:45 PM	#7
Var Filthy Animal Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finally back in New England!! Posts: 5,438	I'm gonna go get your back and then get out. I hate those debates.
	But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you. -N. Machiavelli

04-21-2004, 08:50 PM	#8
Var Filthy Animal Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finally back in New England!! Posts: 5,438	I feel better now. I'm sure I'll be taking a flaming anytime now.
	But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you. -N. Machiavelli

04-21-2004, 08:57 PM	#9
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,300 Photos: 2	LOL, thanks man! Haha, the damn IM Robot or what the fuck ever, moved this to training! Stupid robot...
	P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

04-21-2004, 09:00 PM	#10
Var Filthy Animal Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finally back in New England!! Posts: 5,438	LOL. Didnt know we had a robot here. Couldnt let a fellow IM'er get slammed. Especially since you were right!
	But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you. -N. Machiavelli

04-21-2004, 10:51 PM	#12
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,983 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	my conclusion: go to Avant forums for supplement advice, but not for training advice!
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE) On Sale $17.49 per bottle!

04-22-2004, 08:45 AM	#13
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,523	Inclines DO build upper chest...sorry, but they do.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

04-22-2004, 10:54 AM	#14
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	let the games begin. (or should I say continue?)
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

04-22-2004, 12:53 PM	#17
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	I wasn't trying to be sarcastic toward you gopro. You know how this debate goes whenever it comes up though. Someone will say that they "feel" inclines more in their upper chest. Someone else will say it isn't possible to contract a portion of the muscle...and no one will change their minds.
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.

04-22-2004, 02:47 PM	#21
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Pec minor is located underneath pec major. There are not distinct sections or parts of the chest. That said, I think that if we all refer to the "Sliding Filament Theory of Muscle Contraction" science would be suggesting that while you cannot isolate a portion of any one muscle, you most certainly CAN emphasize a portion of one muscle. This doesn't mean incline is working your "upper chest" it simply means that incline is emphasizing the top portion of the chest. This would also go to explain and justify why certain portions of the chest will become sore when pressing from different angles. And science knows best.
	yay.

04-22-2004, 06:20 PM	#25
Tha Don Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 3,826 Photos: 33	The reason BB use so many different exercises is to sculpt and put on muscle in different areas at different rates, and therefore get a well proportioned phyisic Its like you have exercises that are 'mass builders' and others that are better for 'definition' (isolation exercises) By hitting the muscle from different angle you can stimulate better growth on the muscle, and help to bring up areas that might be holding back its growth This is what many articles would lead ppl to believe, are you saying this is all rubbish? I mean do incline curls build bicep length and concentration curls build bicep peak? or is this total BS? peace