Is it bad to workout/train before you go to bed??

I'm Trying · 04-23-2004, 06:29 AM

I'm debating if I should work out before I go to bed. I work graveyard and my workout area is my garage. If I workout when I wake up (about 4pm) the sun is beating on my garage door and it gets hotter then hell in there. If anyone has some helpful knowledge I'd appriciate it!!

Thanks!!

Phred · 04-23-2004, 08:34 AM

Working out before going to bed has worked for me. I w/o about an hour before going to bed. I just seem to have more focus and energy at the end of the day for a w/o. On the weekends I end up w/o earlier in the day (some times in the morning) and I just do not seem to have quite the same level of intensity. It would be interesting to know if there have been any studies on rest periods after w/o. Some folks get amped up after a w/o. For me, after a good w/o, I am drained and just want to relax/sleep.

LAM · 04-23-2004, 09:51 AM

IMO...it is the worst time to train. not only can it mess up your sleep but high-intensity resistance training is extremely catabolic. so you train get in one meal then your body goes catabolic for 6-10 hours depending on how long you sleep...doesn't seem like the optimum program to me

elitist · 04-23-2004, 10:20 AM

damn...I gotta jump in here....LAM just about summed the shit up...I mean.....are you fucking kidding me? I wouldnt be surprised if you were actually slowly shrinking from that regimen. I say train as early as you can....this way you get 6+ post-workout meals into your system...meals in the hours directly following a thorough thrashing to your muscles = growth. Simple man.

I'm Trying · 04-23-2004, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elitist
damn...I gotta jump in here....LAM just about summed the shit up...I mean.....are you fucking kidding me? I wouldnt be surprised if you were actually slowly shrinking from that regimen. I say train as early as you can....this way you get 6+ post-workout meals into your system...meals in the hours directly following a thorough thrashing to your muscles = growth. Simple man.

I haven't started this, I was pondering. Thus why I posted the question. I figured what Lam was correct anyways.
Thanks!!

LAM · 04-23-2004, 12:48 PM

don't get me wrong training at night is 100x better than not training at all but because of the reasons that I stated it is less than optimum to do that.

**IainDaniel** · 04-23-2004, 12:51 PM

Dammit now you got me second guessing, and ditching the late night workout.

It is just so convenient

Phred · 04-23-2004, 01:12 PM

Well all I can say is it is working for me. Maybe if I w/o earlier I would be gaining more. Is it the most optimum, I do not know. Have there been any studies to support the best time to w/o?

I have only been monitoring my body fat for a few months now. But I started at around 26% BF and 202 lbs. Last readings - 23% BF and 207 lbs. The math suggests I have gained 10 lbs of muscle and lost 5 lbs of fat in three months.

elitist · 04-23-2004, 01:23 PM

hey man...good for you....but just think....what your gains would be like if you got in 6 quality meals after your workout when they are most important?

**CowPimp** · 04-23-2004, 04:12 PM

I workout late too, but I always try to eat as much as possible right after. I aim for 100 grams of protein in addition to some fat and carbs right after a workout. Before I goto sleep I eat some more too.

Saturday Fever · 04-23-2004, 04:16 PM

85% of your testosterone is produced when you're sleeping with a large spike in the hour or so before you wake. (Morning wood unmasked!) So the real problem with the idea is that your body won't be well-fueled for that test boom.

Monolith · 04-23-2004, 04:31 PM

Weight training will put you in an anabolic, not a catabolic state. I'm assuming he's still going to have a post w/o shake. Besides, natural cortisol levels are at their lowest point in the evening. And then hopping right into bed would be beautiful, 8 hours of sleep right after lifting. I also dont see how working out in step with higher morning test levels helps anything... if it did, you'd see guys on juice stickin' themselves right before they hit the gym.

IMO, if you worked out in the evening, you could down 50g of whey post w/o, then 30 mins later down 50g of casein or some sort of slow digesting protein (right before hittin the sack).

Personally, i hate lifting in the morning. I like to get at least 2 meals in me before i get to the gym. For about 3 months i was going before classes at like 6 am, and i just wasnt feelin it. It was nice having a deserted gym to myself, though.

LAM · 04-23-2004, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monolith
Weight training will put you in an anabolic, not a catabolic state.

somebody needs to do a lot more READING and less posting...

Saturday Fever · 04-23-2004, 04:48 PM

Well, given that 85% of the hormones you produce are produced while you sleep, I'd say Mono doesn't have a bad argument.

**Prince** · 04-23-2004, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monolith
Weight training will put you in an anabolic, not a catabolic state.

weight training puts the body in a catabolic state, after training anabolism will follow to rebuild the damage done from training.

Saturday Fever · 04-23-2004, 04:50 PM

Muscle is built via hormones. Hormones are produced mostly while you sleep. So is it more beneficial to workout right before your body does it's best production, or hours before? I think that should be the question.

LAM · 04-23-2004, 04:54 PM

as you have already stated free test is at it's highest in the early am. as the day progresses that test will bind to SHBG. by the end of the day there will be not much free T that is unbound...so from a biological perspective earlier is better...

Saturday Fever · 04-23-2004, 04:56 PM

Unless the free test was in excess when your body wanted it most...

Saturday Fever · 04-23-2004, 04:59 PM

This is a decent article on hormones and steroids as well, but the general information is good nonetheless.

Quote:

Testosterone is made in the testis and released into the bloodstream. A good portion of this testosterone is bound up by SHBG leaving free testosterone levels very low (only about 10% of that released into the bloodstream). Testosterone is a very small molecule that is largely lipid soluble, but has a charged polar group or two slapped on one end. This allows it to diffuse freely across the lipid membranes of your cells. Once in the cytosol, the test binds to androgen receptors that are just kinda floatin around. Once bound to the receptor, the test-receptor complex is transported from the cytosol into the nucleus. THis is where the magic begins. Gene expression/protein synthesis are initiated and the cell produces more protein. Glycogen and nutrient uptake are greatly increased to accomodate the increase in protein production. This means that your insulin sensitivity goes way up, as well as your appetite. Your sleep requirement will also increase.

The hypothalamus reacts to this increase in testosterone by decreasing Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) secretion. GnRH stimulates production of lutenizing hormone (LH) which is responsible for testosterone production in males (estrogen in females), and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) is responsible for stimulating spermatogenesis in males (ovulation in females). A good portion of your GnRH and subsequently testosterone (85% or more) is produced while you sleep, with test levels spiking shortly before you wake up. This partially explains mornin wood. (You can take advantage of this if you use test suspension or dbol, as both have a very short halflife. Take a 5-10 mg of dbol in the morning upon waking and it should be out of your system by nightfall. This means that most GnRH production will continue as usual. During the day, that small 15% or so is replaced by dbol or suspension which, and you're still comin off the test spike produced early in the morning upon waking... so you've high androgen levels both day and night). Anyway, the decrease in GnRH is followed subsequently by testicular atrophy. This is the #1 reason that people lose weight following a cycle. The HPTA will be up and runnin well enough to maintain your muscle mass with no trouble, it's the testis that take forever to rebuild (which in itself causes problems with the HPTA). If you use HCG shortly before coming off, or very small doses concurrently with your cycle, the testicular atrophy will be repaired or negated completely post cycle. This lets hormone levels come back to normal rather quickly post cycle. The exception here is with nandrolone wich desensitizes the leydig cells to LH/FSH and even if the HPTA were to be back to normal... they just don't produce test like they should. This is why test levels can take the better part of a year to return to their normal range following a cycle with nandrolone in it.

Estrogen stimulates SHBG production, and SHBG tends to facilitate aromatization... so if you curb the estrogen production you're good to go. You'll see higher serum test levels because there's less SHBG floating around to bind up all that test. Proviron is a great supp while on cycle. It has no affinity for the ER or the aromatase, so it doesn't funciton as an anti-aromatase or anti-estrogen like most people say it does. It does however have a very high affinity for the androgen binding site on SHBG. This means that the proviron will bind to SHBG instead of test, leaving serum test levels to raise much higher than would normally be possible. This means you get more bang for your buck. You can run lower doses of AAS and still make great gains.

Aromatases are enzymes that convert test to estrogen. All it takes is pulling off a few hydrogens and you're there. When test levels come up, the rate of estrogen production by aromitization increases as well. Estrogen causes alot of problems for bodybuilders... gyno, edema, mood swings, etc. It does have a few beneficial effects, two of which are maintaining connective tissues and beneficial lipid levels. It also helps maintain your sex drive. If nearly all estrogen production is suppressed by use of an anti-aromatase, connective tissues become brittle, less elastic and more prone to injury. HDL levels drop while LDL levels come up, and your sex drive usually becomes non-existant.

Also associated with libido is DHT. Like estrogen, DHT is produced using testosterone. 5-alpha-reductase converts test into DHT. DHT is primarily responsible for male pattern baldness, erectile function, development of the external make genetalia (which is what makes your penis grow during puberty... which totally negates the popular rumor that AAS will shrink your cock. If anything, the higher DHT levels will complete development if it hasn't already for some reason). DHT is also responsible for facial/body hair and deepening of the voice, etc.

Your liver can eat up test with no problem. Both test and estrogen have a halflife of like 45minutes in the bloodstream or something, and they won't raise liver enzyme levels one bit. Very easy to deal with. I'll have to say that oral steroids are not nearly as hard on your system as most people think. Contrary to popular belief, you can run an oral throughout your entire cycle if you wish... and you're not gonna do yourself any harm. Alot of guys can run 100mg anadrol/day for 12 weeks and liver levels won't even come out of the normal range. Some guys I talked to had been runnin 100mg of dbol/day for an entire year and their liver levels were just fine. The only liver protectant they used was ALA or r-ALA, and that was only intermittantly... and more for the effects on insulin sensitivity than for the anti-oxidant characteristics. As long as you have no pre-existing liver problems, avoid the alcohol and other drugs that are notoriously tough on the liver, you're good to go.

Monolith · 04-23-2004, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince

weight training puts the body in a catabolic state, after training anabolism will follow to rebuild the damage done from training.

I guess what i was trying to say, is that weight training is an inherently anabolic activity, ignoring the specifics of when the body reaches that anabolic state.

LAM · 04-23-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monolith
I guess what i was trying to say, is that weight training is an inherently anabolic activity, ignoring the specifics of when the body reaches that anabolic state.

anabolism ONLY occurs if there is sufficient nutrient intake. the body must RECOVER before it can BUILD...

an 6-10 hour fast directly after training most certainly is not optimum for recovery...

Monolith · 04-23-2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LAM
anabolism ONLY occurs if there is sufficient nutrient intake. the body must RECOVER before it can BUILD...

an 6-10 hour fast directly after training most certainly is not optimum for recovery...

Right, this is because of the spike in cortisol when you train. In the evenings, cortisol is at its lowest daily value already. And as long as he has an adequate post w/o shake, followed up by some sort of casein before bed - like i already said - than there's no reason for him not to lift in the evening.

Regardless, whether he lifts in the morning or the evening, i can't see it making any kind of legitimate difference.

LAM · 04-23-2004, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monolith
Right, this is because of the spike in cortisol when you train. In the evenings, cortisol is at its lowest daily value already. And as long as he has an adequate post w/o shake, followed up by some sort of casein before bed - like i already said - than there's no reason for him not to lift in the evening.

Regardless, whether he lifts in the morning or the evening, i can't see it making any kind of legitimate difference.

If you read the original post you will see he asks if it was OK to train directly before bed. sure it is ok but far from optimum

Monolith · 04-23-2004, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LAM
If you read the original post you will see he asks if it was OK to train directly before bed. sure it is ok but far from optimum

Actually... i just realized. He says he doesnt want to workout in the afternoon because its hot in the garage.

IT, why not just open the friggin garage door?

elitist · 04-23-2004, 05:32 PM

Look, bottom line, if you work out on the late night, all the hormone release in the world aint gonna do ya justice when your fasting......food is more anabolic/anti-catabolic than any growth factors circulating thru your bloodstream while you snooze for 8+ hours at night on an empty stomach. The choice is plain to see.

Monolith · 04-23-2004, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elitist
Look, bottom line, if you work out on the late night, all the hormone release in the world aint gonna do ya justice when your fasting......food is more anabolic/anti-catabolic than any growth factors circulating thru your bloodstream while you snooze for 8+ hours at night on an empty stomach. The choice is plain to see.

You understand what casein is, right?

And if sleep was so incredibly awful for anabolism, then you'd have everyone waking up every three hours to eat.

04-23-2004, 06:29 AM	#1
I'm Trying Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,574	Is it bad to workout/train before you go to bed?? I'm debating if I should work out before I go to bed. I work graveyard and my workout area is my garage. If I workout when I wake up (about 4pm) the sun is beating on my garage door and it gets hotter then hell in there. If anyone has some helpful knowledge I'd appriciate it!! Thanks!!
	The beatings will continue until morale improves!! Personal Goal: I WILL be playing "C" tournament ball next year!!! Training Moderator @softballfans My New Journal!!!! Age: 29 \| Height: 5'11.5" \| Weight: 198 lbs BF% ? Bests: Bench:? \| Squat: ? \| Deads: ? Goals: Bench: 235 \| Squat: 250 \| Deadlift: 300

04-23-2004, 08:34 AM	#2
Phred On a journey....... Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Back in Sacramento, CA again Posts: 672 Photos: 4	Working out before going to bed has worked for me. I w/o about an hour before going to bed. I just seem to have more focus and energy at the end of the day for a w/o. On the weekends I end up w/o earlier in the day (some times in the morning) and I just do not seem to have quite the same level of intensity. It would be interesting to know if there have been any studies on rest periods after w/o. Some folks get amped up after a w/o. For me, after a good w/o, I am drained and just want to relax/sleep.
	If you always have a great day, you will always have a great life. "The gym offers force and pain and relief. It provides challenge and struggle and satisfaction." Dave Draper

04-23-2004, 09:51 AM	#3
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	IMO...it is the worst time to train. not only can it mess up your sleep but high-intensity resistance training is extremely catabolic. so you train get in one meal then your body goes catabolic for 6-10 hours depending on how long you sleep...doesn't seem like the optimum program to me
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

04-23-2004, 10:20 AM	#4
elitist Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: jersey Posts: 84	damn...I gotta jump in here....LAM just about summed the shit up...I mean.....are you fucking kidding me? I wouldnt be surprised if you were actually slowly shrinking from that regimen. I say train as early as you can....this way you get 6+ post-workout meals into your system...meals in the hours directly following a thorough thrashing to your muscles = growth. Simple man.
	" If the day ever comes when you are satisfied with your physique, leave this sport."

04-23-2004, 12:48 PM	#6
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	don't get me wrong training at night is 100x better than not training at all but because of the reasons that I stated it is less than optimum to do that.
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

04-23-2004, 12:51 PM	#7
IainDaniel My Role Model Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 15,380	Dammit now you got me second guessing, and ditching the late night workout. It is just so convenient
	Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it. Michael Jordan

04-23-2004, 01:12 PM	#8
Phred On a journey....... Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Back in Sacramento, CA again Posts: 672 Photos: 4	Well all I can say is it is working for me. Maybe if I w/o earlier I would be gaining more. Is it the most optimum, I do not know. Have there been any studies to support the best time to w/o? I have only been monitoring my body fat for a few months now. But I started at around 26% BF and 202 lbs. Last readings - 23% BF and 207 lbs. The math suggests I have gained 10 lbs of muscle and lost 5 lbs of fat in three months.
	If you always have a great day, you will always have a great life. "The gym offers force and pain and relief. It provides challenge and struggle and satisfaction." Dave Draper

04-23-2004, 01:23 PM	#9
elitist Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: jersey Posts: 84	hey man...good for you....but just think....what your gains would be like if you got in 6 quality meals after your workout when they are most important?
	" If the day ever comes when you are satisfied with your physique, leave this sport."

04-23-2004, 04:12 PM	#10
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	I workout late too, but I always try to eat as much as possible right after. I aim for 100 grams of protein in addition to some fat and carbs right after a workout. Before I goto sleep I eat some more too.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

04-23-2004, 04:16 PM	#11
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	85% of your testosterone is produced when you're sleeping with a large spike in the hour or so before you wake. (Morning wood unmasked!) So the real problem with the idea is that your body won't be well-fueled for that test boom.
	yay.

04-23-2004, 04:31 PM	#12
Monolith OMGWTFBBQ Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,002	Weight training will put you in an anabolic, not a catabolic state. I'm assuming he's still going to have a post w/o shake. Besides, natural cortisol levels are at their lowest point in the evening. And then hopping right into bed would be beautiful, 8 hours of sleep right after lifting. I also dont see how working out in step with higher morning test levels helps anything... if it did, you'd see guys on juice stickin' themselves right before they hit the gym. IMO, if you worked out in the evening, you could down 50g of whey post w/o, then 30 mins later down 50g of casein or some sort of slow digesting protein (right before hittin the sack). Personally, i hate lifting in the morning. I like to get at least 2 meals in me before i get to the gym. For about 3 months i was going before classes at like 6 am, and i just wasnt feelin it. It was nice having a deserted gym to myself, though.
	http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ek867/dexamyl.jpg

04-23-2004, 04:48 PM	#14
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Well, given that 85% of the hormones you produce are produced while you sleep, I'd say Mono doesn't have a bad argument.
	yay.

04-23-2004, 04:50 PM	#16
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Muscle is built via hormones. Hormones are produced mostly while you sleep. So is it more beneficial to workout right before your body does it's best production, or hours before? I think that should be the question.
	yay.

04-23-2004, 04:54 PM	#17
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	as you have already stated free test is at it's highest in the early am. as the day progresses that test will bind to SHBG. by the end of the day there will be not much free T that is unbound...so from a biological perspective earlier is better...
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

04-23-2004, 04:56 PM	#18
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Unless the free test was in excess when your body wanted it most...
	yay.

04-23-2004, 05:32 PM	#25
elitist Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: jersey Posts: 84	Look, bottom line, if you work out on the late night, all the hormone release in the world aint gonna do ya justice when your fasting......food is more anabolic/anti-catabolic than any growth factors circulating thru your bloodstream while you snooze for 8+ hours at night on an empty stomach. The choice is plain to see.
	" If the day ever comes when you are satisfied with your physique, leave this sport."