Banned Exercises ?

Saturday Fever · 04-26-2004, 01:00 PM

That is not Ronnie Coleman's workout, despite what many publications (funded by supp companies of course) would have you believe.

Ronnie Coleman lifts using an extremely high volume Westside routine. I assume the volume is what it is because of the amount of drugs in his body.

And science would say that science doesn't lie. Let's look at one particular science (physiology) and the resulting studies done by Mel Siff and company. When this science is applied, what are the results? Every single elite level powerlifter on the planet and the pinnacle of bodybuilding, Ronnie Coleman.

Eggs · 04-26-2004, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Quadsweep
How big does the circumference of my thigh has to be before I am entitled to question Colemans training methods? I have not seen your pictures. Frankly, I don't care much about what you look like. (but I do wonder why Prince crop his avatar like that?)

If you're not too lazy you can click on the little link under his post thats says gallery and you can see pics from his most recent competition

**Prince** · 04-26-2004, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Quadsweep
I have not seen your pictures. Frankly, I don't care much about what you look like. (but I do wonder why Prince crop his avatar like that?)

It takes a genius to click on my pic gallery icon.

I cropped the pic so it would fit as an avatar.

Some of My Pics: (April 3, 2004)

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ga...cat=500&page=1

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ga...cat=500&page=1

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ga...cat=500&page=1

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ga...cat=500&page=1

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ga...cat=500&page=2

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ga...cat=500&page=2

**Prince** · 04-26-2004, 01:10 PM

oh, here are some more pics, including my "cropped" avatar pic.

http://www.ironmagazine.com/biography.php

**CowPimp** · 04-26-2004, 01:36 PM

My only problem with these statements is that you shouldn't "ban" any exercise from your routine. You should use a very wide variety of lifts. Just because one lift is not the best means nothing. If you stick with the same lifts just because they are considered the "best" then you will never get anywhere.

Declaring the bench press worthless for chest is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. Just because it hits shoulders and triceps doesn't mean the chest doesn't do a lot of work. There are plenty of other lifts that people use for one purpose that server others (Deadlifts for example are done for the back, but the legs certainly do quite a bit of work). In addition, I would like to see the form the person used when they tested that. Very few people understand proper bench press form.

Saturday Fever · 04-26-2004, 01:38 PM

Proper in what sense?

**CowPimp** · 04-26-2004, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saturday Fever
Proper in what sense?

Very few people arch their back and pull their shoulder blades in when they bench press. They lie flat on the bench and push up, which is wrong.

LAM · 04-26-2004, 01:55 PM

I think the only thing that I agree on about that site is what he stated about the straight bar curls....

JerseyDevil · 04-26-2004, 02:12 PM

Well OD, since you are so open minded, why don't you go to his website and order his 'program' with all of these startling revelations for a mere $25? The article about why the bench press is bogus appeared in the Feb issue of Natural Bodybuilding, I'm sure you can get back issues.

I honestly think you'll find nothing new, just someone trying to make a buck promising easily obtainable muscular gains. Guys like this have been around since the days of Charles Atlas...

Quote:

Originally posted by OceanDude
Well, I for one am willing to listen to alternative exercises when the science seems to suggest that the conventional wisdom is not as effective as we think. I keep having to ask how many other people out there could have had much better results if they were more effective with their technique and exercise. For every Ronnie Coleman there are probably 10,000 or so other young men and women who have dropped out due to injury or frustrated results. For most of us that are not %100 professional body builders and still slug it out in the gym routinely and that have other obligations I am personally all for getting more stimulus for less time in the gym. Just wish someone would take the bait and find out what the author is proposing as alternatives and let the rest of us know before we commit real for-gosh money to it.

Wait, a sec… I can afford to pay real for-gosh money. Why am I worried about spending a few bucks for? Hmm, I am thinking that a lot of us in BB have a tendency to be cheapskates when we would rather put down $50 bucks to try a totally bogus product like NO2 but hesitate to put down $20 bucks to read a few new ideas. And this is coming from a traditionalist guys. Shame on you others.

-OD

OceanDude · 04-26-2004, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JerseyDevil
... Guys like this have been around since the days of Charles Atlas...

Don't tell me that Atlas's "Bull Twist Thingie" he use to sell when I was a kid didn't work for you? I think it cost like $10. Heck, I'm probably more buff looking than Atlas anyway and so are 80% of most gym-heads currently working out. I just want to make sure I am not gonna end up looking like Ronnie by accident by doing his routines...

-OD

**Prince** · 04-26-2004, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OceanDude
I think it cost like $10. Heck, I'm probably more buff looking than Atlas anyway and so are 80% of most gym-heads currently working out.

yeah, but wasn't that $10 back in the 1940's or 50's?

how much would that be in today's dollars? $100?

Eggs · 04-26-2004, 03:37 PM

I agree JD, OD should spot the $25 and break it down for us... any good information in there or is it just a big dud like most of us think it is.

Since you volunteered...

OceanDude · 04-26-2004, 03:43 PM

Bah, you buys your tickee and youz takes yer chances...

No free info for jou!

-OD

Quadsweep · 04-26-2004, 04:55 PM

Prince: Nice upper body

However, please crop your pictures. It leaves a better impression. Too much of leg extensions and lunges. You asked for it by posting your pics.

On the more serious side, I never got any explanation why Lunges work wonders?

The Lunge is in every aspect infererior compared to the mighty squat and humble leg press. Lunges is a waste of ammo.

Is it the "I feel it syndrome"?

OceanDude:

Quote:

I just want to make sure I am not gonna end up looking like Ronnie by accident by doing his routines...

Stay clear of roids

I also think bench press is just fine. Maybe he wants to sell us the idea of doing some kind of a low pulley cable combined flye and press???

Quote:

"While it is true that people like Arnold and Ronnie have had phenomenal success in applying the "old school" exercises (which I too have embraced) we will never know how many other men and women could have exceeded or matched their physical achievement if they had not become injured at an early age and dropped out."

True, bodybuilding is 95% genetics. Genetics that allows you to lift unbelieveable amount of weight in the most stupidious ways without getting injured.

Yesterday, I visited a clinic for physiotherapy and rehabilitation of paralyzed and quadriplegic patients. The will power and effort exerted by those patients made Ronnie Coleman and his "unbelievable" pale in comparison. To some extent it all comes down to what you've got.

**Prince** · 04-26-2004, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Quadsweep
Prince: Nice upper body

thanks...waiting anxiously for yours...

**Prince** · 04-26-2004, 05:14 PM

btw, my quads have always been one of my strong points, so not sure what you meant.

here is a better shot of them:
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ga...cat=500&page=3

**CowPimp** · 04-26-2004, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Quadsweep
On the more serious side, I never got any explanation why Lunges work wonders?

The Lunge is in every aspect infererior compared to the mighty squat and humble leg press. Lunges is a waste of ammo.

Is it the "I feel it syndrome"?

I don't think lunges work wonders. However, I do feel that they are a useful exercise. They are especially useful for me because I workout at home so my range of exercises is limited, particularly for my back and legs.

For me, it's the "I saw strength/size gains syndrome."

**Prince** · 04-26-2004, 05:25 PM

Guess I never addressed lunges...

Lunges are okay, I do them about every 3rd or 4th leg work-out for something different, my main focus is squats and leg press. I do not like to do lunges often due to the glute emphasis, my ass is already big enough from deep squats!

Honestly, I am not real fond of any single leg exercise, in fact lunges would be the only leg exercise I do that is single leg and like I said I do not even do them very often.

I only brought up Ronnie doing lunges because I read that he was quite fond of them, and I was being sarcastic as far as the author of that article telling Ronnie that lunges are a waste of time.

If anyone asks me what they should do for big legs my answer is always the same: Free weight barbell squats, the deeper and heavier the better!

Flex · 04-26-2004, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
I have not read all of it, but I was reading what he said about lunges, and I would like for him to tell Ronnie Coleman what a waste of time lunges are.

Eggs · 04-26-2004, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OceanDude
Bah, you buys your tickee and youz takes yer chances...

No free info for jou!

-OD

Pretty please with protein on top?

JerseyDevil · 04-26-2004, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OceanDude
I just want to make sure I am not gonna end up looking like Ronnie by accident by doing his routines...

-OD

That was good.

JerseyDevil · 04-26-2004, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Quadsweep
Prince: Nice upper body

Yeah, yeah, Prince looks great, but what about his wife Gena.

Robert, you dog.

Flex · 04-26-2004, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
I heard that Ronnie likes to walk across the gym parking lot doing dumbbell lunges, what a waste of time, huh?

no no no!

he only uses 185 on a barbell.

i don't know the whole premise behind all this argueing, but lunges DO work.

Quadsweep · 04-26-2004, 09:00 PM

Quote:

i don't know the whole premise behind all this argueing, but lunges DO work!

Quote:

he only uses 185 on a barbell

Ok now I am convinced....

Never take any advice from an IFBB pro. You might end up doing lunges in a parkin lot with dumbells weighing 40-45 pounds

What Cutler has to say about Lunges:

Quote:

"I do these year-‘round, because they allow me to develop a lot of detail

in the off-season," says Jay "Most pros will limit lunges to the time they’re preparing for a big contest." Jay uses dumbbells that weigh 40-45 pounds

in each hand, and his lunges see him take a step with one leg, return to the starting position, and then do the same with the opposite leg. "I’m not real big on walking lunges, for 2 reasons," says the Night of Champions winner: "It’s far more difficult to keep your chest erect and your head up, which is essential to the movement, and you’re constantly having to make sure you have clear sailing ahead, or you have to stop your forward movement." Some fast calculating confirms his concerns: Jay does 9-11 reps. At 30" of forward movement per lunge, that would work out to 90 to 110 feet of needed clear straight-ahead runway.

Massive Quads with jay cutler

Try to do this. Do lunges and legextension only for a period of time and watch how your legs atrophy at the speed of light.

04-26-2004, 01:00 PM	#31
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	That is not Ronnie Coleman's workout, despite what many publications (funded by supp companies of course) would have you believe. Ronnie Coleman lifts using an extremely high volume Westside routine. I assume the volume is what it is because of the amount of drugs in his body. And science would say that science doesn't lie. Let's look at one particular science (physiology) and the resulting studies done by Mel Siff and company. When this science is applied, what are the results? Every single elite level powerlifter on the planet and the pinnacle of bodybuilding, Ronnie Coleman.
	yay.

04-26-2004, 01:10 PM	#34
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,983 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	oh, here are some more pics, including my "cropped" avatar pic. http://www.ironmagazine.com/biography.php
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE) On Sale $17.49 per bottle!

04-26-2004, 01:36 PM	#35
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	My only problem with these statements is that you shouldn't "ban" any exercise from your routine. You should use a very wide variety of lifts. Just because one lift is not the best means nothing. If you stick with the same lifts just because they are considered the "best" then you will never get anywhere. Declaring the bench press worthless for chest is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. Just because it hits shoulders and triceps doesn't mean the chest doesn't do a lot of work. There are plenty of other lifts that people use for one purpose that server others (Deadlifts for example are done for the back, but the legs certainly do quite a bit of work). In addition, I would like to see the form the person used when they tested that. Very few people understand proper bench press form.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

04-26-2004, 01:38 PM	#36
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Proper in what sense?
	yay.

04-26-2004, 01:55 PM	#38
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	I think the only thing that I agree on about that site is what he stated about the straight bar curls....
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

04-26-2004, 03:37 PM	#42
Eggs Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,008	I agree JD, OD should spot the $25 and break it down for us... any good information in there or is it just a big dud like most of us think it is. Since you volunteered...

04-26-2004, 03:43 PM	#43
OceanDude Well Read Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 1,853	Bah, you buys your tickee and youz takes yer chances... No free info for jou! -OD
	"Doc, If I had known I was going to live this long I would have taken better care of myself..." Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae. We Americans scoff at the likes of African witch doctors yet spend 100's of millions of dollars on fake reducing systems. The only regular exercise he gets is stretching the truth. His intellect is not replenished, he is only an animal, only sensible in the duller parts...

04-26-2004, 05:14 PM	#46
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,983 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	btw, my quads have always been one of my strong points, so not sure what you meant. here is a better shot of them: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/ga...cat=500&page=3
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE) On Sale $17.49 per bottle!

04-26-2004, 05:25 PM	#48
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,983 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	Guess I never addressed lunges... Lunges are okay, I do them about every 3rd or 4th leg work-out for something different, my main focus is squats and leg press. I do not like to do lunges often due to the glute emphasis, my ass is already big enough from deep squats! Honestly, I am not real fond of any single leg exercise, in fact lunges would be the only leg exercise I do that is single leg and like I said I do not even do them very often. I only brought up Ronnie doing lunges because I read that he was quite fond of them, and I was being sarcastic as far as the author of that article telling Ronnie that lunges are a waste of time. If anyone asks me what they should do for big legs my answer is always the same: Free weight barbell squats, the deeper and heavier the better!
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE) On Sale $17.49 per bottle!