training frequency dilemma

**monkeyd** · 04-25-2004, 12:18 PM

Hi, I could use some of your opinions on what to do here.

For a long while I trained a M/W/F split doing chest/tris/abs on monday, back and bis on wed, shoulders/legs/abs on friday. I used to do 20mins HIIT cardio after each session.

Now I did this for a long while on top of university and a lot of other stuff, and I became overtrained. I had seen loss of fat, muscle gain and consequently stayed at around 74kg / 163lb, at 6ft2inches (although I dropped in weight from 79kg since I started, because in the first 3-4 months I trained I was not eating nearly enough). So I was more defined, but wasn't adding bulk at all.

I took a week off, tweaked my program and went back into it.

So I was still doing M/W/F, but then only doing cardio on wednesday, eating more, training heavy to add mass. Anyway I did that for two weeks but then due to time commitments I ended up having to change to a 9 day rotation rather than a weekly rotation.

So the last two cycles (where a cycle would have been mon/wed/fri) have been 9 days, one day on, 2 days off, working each body part once every 9 days (though of course they all see some action each session even if they aren't specifically being targetted).

The dilemma is, now that I have the time to go back to M/W/F again, I'm thinking that I've actually seen more results in the last 18 days in terms of gains, than I would have in 2 or 3 weeks training more frequently. I don't know if it is the extra recovery time, the fact I can eat more food between sessions (I guess that's part of the same thing really), or just a temporary thing because I let up for a little while and my body recovered some. The thing is along with that, my actual strength decreased a little bit, I noticed for example that on some exercises I couldn't get that last rep where I could before. However, because I've only done the 9 day thing for 2 cycles, it could just as easily have been an off day.

Is a 9 day rotation too long for real mass gains do you think? I'm trying to be instinctive, and there are people like Mike Mentzer who advocate long rest periods, but then I've also heard that 3 to 4 days is the optimum time to give a muscle group to adapt before it should be trained again to prevent results slipping.

Sorry if this is a little bit long and rambling, but what do you think I should do?

**P-funk** · 04-25-2004, 01:11 PM

I don't think there is anything wrong with a one day on, two day of routine. Especially if you are using total body workouts and the intensity is right. Check out the book super squats, it has great ideas in it.

**monkeyd** · 04-25-2004, 03:44 PM

I'm not using total body workouts though..

day1: chest/tris/abs
2 and 3 rest
day 4: Back Bi Cardio
5 and 6 rest
day 7: Legs, Shoulders, abs
8 / 9 rest
repeat....

The highest intensity I can muster though.

**P-funk** · 04-25-2004, 03:53 PM

I am saying you should try and use total body workouts.

Intnesity- the amount of weight lifted in relation to your one rep maximum.........Not how hard you workout, veryone works as hard as they can (or at least they should be).

**monkeyd** · 04-25-2004, 04:05 PM

Well, I'm not sure what my 1rm are, but I lift so that I can just do 3 x 8, then I up the weight.

How do you train ?

**P-funk** · 04-25-2004, 05:43 PM

Okay, so that is a moderate intensity (aprox. 80% of your 1RM is your 8RM). Now you can just do the math to figure out what intensities you want to work at. For example day one you may squat at an intensity of 62.5% of your 1RM. 2 days later you may come in a deadlift at 90% of your 1RM, a much higher intensity. However, you are working in percentages and leaving 48HRs between workouts so it will workout. I know guys that have done total body workouts, three times a week, and squated every workout. They could get away with it because they were squating percentages rather than just loading up the bar with what they usually use.

I train many different ways and believe in lots of periodization and change to make improvements. Currently I am 10 weeks away from a bbing contest so my training wont very that much. After it is over I will probably do 6 weeks of total body workouts and then go to some sort of dual factor trianing program or maybe a different type of total body workout using olympic lifts for the following six weeks. I like to change about every 6-8 weeks.

**monkeyd** · 04-26-2004, 01:28 AM

How do you rate HIT, Max-OT and HST as training methods ?

**P-funk** · 04-26-2004, 03:40 AM

Never tried them. I prefer to write my own programs.

**monkeyd** · 04-26-2004, 04:11 AM

Ok so I'm feeling inclined to go back to mon/wed/fri with my current split.

I will do that until I've done 6-8 weeks/cycles total, then change it up again.

Your intensity definition makes me think I should up the weights and drop to sets of 6 reps.

The thing is, how far can you take it, because I can't see 3sets x 1rep @ 1rm per exercise being enough volume. Perhaps just throw it in occasionally ?

**mikey_7777** · 04-26-2004, 05:36 AM

monkeyd
I have this routine without anabolics,when iam off drugs.
day1: chest/tris/abs
2 rest
day 3: Back Bi
4 rest
day 5: Shoulders
6 /7 rest
8 :Legs
9:rest
repeat....
For me is working perfect
Every big part 12 set 6rep
Every small part 8 set 6 rep
Every week i can see the different i get stronger
I never try HIT cause this work for me so why to change it?

**JerseyDevil** · 04-26-2004, 05:58 AM

Mikey, what does your split look like when you are 'on'?

**mikey_7777** · 04-26-2004, 06:06 AM

JerseyDevil

day1: chest/tri
day 2: Back/bi
day 3 rest
day 4:Shoulders
day 5:legs
day 6-7 rest
repeat....
or

day1: chest
day 2: Back
day 3:Shoulders
day 4:legs
day 5:bi/tri
day 6-7 rest
repeat....
is depend how i feel(overtrain or not)

**JerseyDevil** · 04-26-2004, 12:39 PM

Ok cool. So you do 1 day on, 1 day off between cycles. Then either 2 days on, 1 day off or a 5 days on, 2 days off when 'on'.

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