Perfect form or slight cheating w/ heavy weight??

Flex · 04-27-2004, 12:13 PM

alright, i know it can be an endless debate, but which is better??

With the goal to build max. muscle, all the guys i know use heavy weight, where they have to cheat slightly to get the reps they need.

But i question this sometimes. So, is it better to use heavy weight that you have to cheat slightly? or is it better to go with lighter weight and use perfect form (again...with the goal of building max. muscle).

it kinda sounds obvious to use lighter w/perfect form, but all the big guys i know use the heavy weight, and they say to get big, you gotta use heavy weight.

i know there's a thin line, but still.

i dont know if what i just wrote makes sense, but if it does, what u guys think?

**CowPimp** · 04-27-2004, 12:36 PM

I say perfect form with less weight. Weight progression is what matters, otherwise you would never get stronger because you don't start out using heavy weights.

Rob_NC · 04-27-2004, 12:54 PM

I try to use enough weight that will allow 6-8 reps with strict form all-the-while being able "feel" the contraction. If I can get 8-9 reps, I increase weight to bring it down to 6-8 reps. The ability to feel the contraction is important to me.

LAM · 04-27-2004, 01:04 PM

it really depends on the exercise. some exercises you must use perfect form or you will eventually cause injury..

X Ring · 04-27-2004, 01:04 PM

right now i am using 6-9 reps but whatever rep range I am using I use a weight to get one or two reps shy of the target w/ perfect form and then maybe I cheat a little for a forced rep at the end or if I have a spotter a VERY light touch on one maybe two. If you can do all your reps w/ absolutely perfect form, from what I have read, heard, seen and believe, you arent pushing yourself all that hard

ALBOB · 04-27-2004, 01:36 PM

I say the heavier the weight the more strict your form needs to be. Think about it this way, the more weight you're pushing the more danger there is of injury. Then you want to throw in poor form on top of that? That's a recipe for disaster.

**CowPimp** · 04-27-2004, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by X Ring
right now i am using 6-9 reps but whatever rep range I am using I use a weight to get one or two reps shy of the target w/ perfect form and then maybe I cheat a little for a forced rep at the end or if I have a spotter a VERY light touch on one maybe two. If you can do all your reps w/ absolutely perfect form, from what I have read, heard, seen and believe, you arent pushing yourself all that hard

That's nonsense. You should always try to maintain perfect form. I understand cheating on the last rep as a self spotter, but the statement that you are not pushing yourself hard if you maintain perfect form is nonsense. If you use improper form then you are not pushing yourself properly.

**Prince** · 04-27-2004, 01:58 PM

Cheat reps can be beneficial when used on occasion.

Form should always be good, no doubt, but there are times where breaking form a little and cheating is okay on those last couple of reps.

I would not advise doing this every set or work-out, but it's a technique that has its time and place. Just like using forced reps once in awhile, or a superset, or any other training prinicple.

Saturday Fever · 04-27-2004, 02:02 PM

True dat.

Akateros · 04-27-2004, 03:49 PM

I might once in a while cheat for the last rep if I'm in a pissy mood and just want to get the fucker up there.

However, I don't make a habit of it. I'm oldish, and some of my joints are already crotchety. Better to not get in my planned reps if I can't do them with perfect form, rather than end up broken and whimpering on the floor (I also train at home, with free weights, and don't usually have a spotter).

I will sometimes add in another set of fewer reps after a little break, instead. At the heavy weight.

**Mudge** · 04-27-2004, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LAM
it really depends on the exercise. some exercises you must use perfect form or you will eventually cause injury..

What he said. I have to stay strict on benching, period.

On deadlifts I dont mind a little cheating, curls same thing, triceps sure - etc. For the most part its delt pressing and benching that I watch out for.

**Prince** · 04-27-2004, 05:03 PM

Good point, I would not cheat on a movement like benchpress.

I was thinking more along the lines of standing curls, laterals, rows, pulldowns, basically exercises where you can get some back momentum.

**CowPimp** · 04-27-2004, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
Good point, I would not cheat on a movement like benchpress.

I was thinking more along the lines of standing curls, laterals, rows, pulldowns, basically exercises where you can get some back momentum.

Agreed. Curls is one of the few exercises that I cheat on somewhat frequently. Even so, I only do it on that last stubborn rep, and only if I can't get it done with perfect form.

ALBOB · 04-27-2004, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mudge On deadlifts I dont mind a little cheating

Define "cheating on deadlifts". If you're talking about bouncing a little at the bottom I'm OK with that. If you're talking about giving it an extra "jerk" off the floor just to get it moving I want to be your beneficiary.

maniclion · 04-27-2004, 05:44 PM

I don't do rocking or jerking cheats, however I will do a leaning, isolation self spotter and wall support cheats.

Vieope · 04-27-2004, 06:30 PM

Perfect form, there is no reason to cheat. Unless if you are powerlifting.

Jemal · 04-28-2004, 12:34 AM

i dont know about you guys, but i feel guilty when i cheat

X Ring · 04-28-2004, 08:23 AM

Cowpimp I guess I was getting at what Robert said more than anything. But like I said strict form for almost everything then at the end I personally might cheat a bit (forced rep, spotter) to get another rep or two. I certainly understand that poor form especially as weight increases in a recipe for disaster and dont suggest using momentum/bouncing.

**Mudge** · 04-28-2004, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ALBOB
Define "cheating on deadlifts". If you're talking about bouncing a little at the bottom I'm OK with that. If you're talking about giving it an extra "jerk" off the floor just to get it moving I want to be your beneficiary.

Using my legs more than I should be. I will not jerk it off the floor, I have lower back issues from when I was about 11 years old, I'm not that stupid

X Ring · 04-28-2004, 09:33 AM

any sort of bouncing on deadlifts sounds like a one way ticket out of the gym to the couch for a few months to me.

ALBOB · 04-28-2004, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mudge I'm not that stupid

Oh man, if that's not a topic for a poll I don't know what is.

**Prince** · 04-28-2004, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vieope
Unless if you are powerlifting.

why would a powerlifter want to cheat?

they have to have perfect form with pauses in competition.

M.J.H. · 04-28-2004, 12:10 PM

I think that regular use of good form is important. However, on certain exercises, I do use a little bit of body English to get the weight moving. For example on BB curls, I will use a little momentum on my last few reps. Nothing major, just enough to complete the reps. Obviously on an exercise bench you can't use momentum, etc.

It really depends on the exercise, and how much you're going to cheat.

**CowPimp** · 04-28-2004, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by X Ring
Cowpimp I guess I was getting at what Robert said more than anything. But like I said strict form for almost everything then at the end I personally might cheat a bit (forced rep, spotter) to get another rep or two. I certainly understand that poor form especially as weight increases in a recipe for disaster and dont suggest using momentum/bouncing.

As I said in my previous post, "I understand cheating on the last rep as a self spotter..." However, the part that I disagreed with is, "If you can do all your reps w/ absolutely perfect form, from what I have read, heard, seen and believe, you arent pushing yourself all that hard." You don't have to always go to failure to make gains. In fact, going to failure all the time isn't necessarily good because of the strain it puts on your central nervous system. In addition, certain lifts are not a good idea to cheat on, even to get that last rep out.

04-27-2004, 12:13 PM	#1
Flex FLEXecutioner Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pomping Iyuhn Posts: 6,278 Photos: 2	Perfect form or slight cheating w/ heavy weight?? alright, i know it can be an endless debate, but which is better?? With the goal to build max. muscle, all the guys i know use heavy weight, where they have to cheat slightly to get the reps they need. But i question this sometimes. So, is it better to use heavy weight that you have to cheat slightly? or is it better to go with lighter weight and use perfect form (again...with the goal of building max. muscle). it kinda sounds obvious to use lighter w/perfect form, but all the big guys i know use the heavy weight, and they say to get big, you gotta use heavy weight. i know there's a thin line, but still. i dont know if what i just wrote makes sense, but if it does, what u guys think?
	You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst. * Got juice?Need Motivation?How to Train* Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!Ahhnold*

04-27-2004, 12:36 PM	#2
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	I say perfect form with less weight. Weight progression is what matters, otherwise you would never get stronger because you don't start out using heavy weights.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

04-27-2004, 12:54 PM	#3
Rob_NC Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,179	I try to use enough weight that will allow 6-8 reps with strict form all-the-while being able "feel" the contraction. If I can get 8-9 reps, I increase weight to bring it down to 6-8 reps. The ability to feel the contraction is important to me.
	Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

04-27-2004, 01:04 PM	#4
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	it really depends on the exercise. some exercises you must use perfect form or you will eventually cause injury..
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

04-27-2004, 01:36 PM	#6
ALBOB IDIOT SAVANT Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: An alternate reality. Posts: 10,177	I say the heavier the weight the more strict your form needs to be. Think about it this way, the more weight you're pushing the more danger there is of injury. Then you want to throw in poor form on top of that? That's a recipe for disaster.
	Rules? You mean we have RULES for that???

04-27-2004, 01:04 PM	#5
X Ring training to be Goku Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New England Posts: 696	right now i am using 6-9 reps but whatever rep range I am using I use a weight to get one or two reps shy of the target w/ perfect form and then maybe I cheat a little for a forced rep at the end or if I have a spotter a VERY light touch on one maybe two. If you can do all your reps w/ absolutely perfect form, from what I have read, heard, seen and believe, you arent pushing yourself all that hard

04-27-2004, 01:58 PM	#8
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,982 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	Cheat reps can be beneficial when used on occasion. Form should always be good, no doubt, but there are times where breaking form a little and cheating is okay on those last couple of reps. I would not advise doing this every set or work-out, but it's a technique that has its time and place. Just like using forced reps once in awhile, or a superset, or any other training prinicple.
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04-27-2004, 02:02 PM	#9
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	True dat.
	yay.

04-27-2004, 03:49 PM	#10
Akateros I read it someplace. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ontario Posts: 481	I might once in a while cheat for the last rep if I'm in a pissy mood and just want to get the fucker up there. However, I don't make a habit of it. I'm oldish, and some of my joints are already crotchety. Better to not get in my planned reps if I can't do them with perfect form, rather than end up broken and whimpering on the floor (I also train at home, with free weights, and don't usually have a spotter). I will sometimes add in another set of fewer reps after a little break, instead. At the heavy weight.

04-27-2004, 05:03 PM	#12
Prince the one & only Administrator Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Colorado Posts: 33,982 Blog Entries: 25 Photos: 320	Good point, I would not cheat on a movement like benchpress. I was thinking more along the lines of standing curls, laterals, rows, pulldowns, basically exercises where you can get some back momentum.
	SBMuscle.com - Discount Supplement Superstore AlltheWhey.com - Bulk Protein Powders CEM Products - Research Chemicals & Supplements MusclePharm - Complete Nutritional Arsenal BigBackGrips - If you lift weights you've got to try these grips! HumaneVoLabs - Foaming Transdermal Delivery System. Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (CEE) On Sale $17.49 per bottle!

04-27-2004, 05:44 PM	#15
maniclion Catalyst Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hawaii, selling munitions for the war on EcoTerror Posts: 18,362 Photos: 10	I don't do rocking or jerking cheats, however I will do a leaning, isolation self spotter and wall support cheats.

04-27-2004, 06:30 PM	#16
Vieope Monochromatic Bunny Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: drinking coffee.. Posts: 14,863 Photos: 10	Perfect form, there is no reason to cheat. Unless if you are powerlifting.
	FURtherness

04-28-2004, 12:34 AM	#17
Jemal all natural Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 180	i dont know about you guys, but i feel guilty when i cheat
	go team

04-28-2004, 08:23 AM	#18
X Ring training to be Goku Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New England Posts: 696	Cowpimp I guess I was getting at what Robert said more than anything. But like I said strict form for almost everything then at the end I personally might cheat a bit (forced rep, spotter) to get another rep or two. I certainly understand that poor form especially as weight increases in a recipe for disaster and dont suggest using momentum/bouncing.

04-28-2004, 09:33 AM	#20
X Ring training to be Goku Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New England Posts: 696	any sort of bouncing on deadlifts sounds like a one way ticket out of the gym to the couch for a few months to me.

04-28-2004, 12:10 PM	#23
M.J.H. Obsessed Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Delaware Posts: 3,587 Photos: 12	I think that regular use of good form is important. However, on certain exercises, I do use a little bit of body English to get the weight moving. For example on BB curls, I will use a little momentum on my last few reps. Nothing major, just enough to complete the reps. Obviously on an exercise bench you can't use momentum, etc. It really depends on the exercise, and how much you're going to cheat.
	Stats! 23 years old, 5'11.5", 206 lbs., ~8% bodyfat 380/455/655 bench/squat/deadlift (current) 405/495/675 bench/squat/deadlift (goals) The M.J.H. Chronicles

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