Power/Rep Range/Shock: The Basics

Randy · 09-15-2004, 12:00 PM

Diesel's really going to get jealous now

Sapphire · 09-15-2004, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy

Diesel's really going to get jealous now

Why?? 'Cause of me and GP? Nah... we are the bestest of buds and just joking around.

Randy · 09-15-2004, 08:42 PM

yeah yeah...I've heard that before

**gopro** · 09-16-2004, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapphire

Why?? 'Cause of me and GP? Nah... we are the bestest of buds and just joking around.

Randy · 09-16-2004, 10:46 PM

Sapphire · 09-17-2004, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

**gopro** · 09-17-2004, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapphire

Randy · 09-17-2004, 03:08 PM

Sapphire · 09-17-2004, 06:25 PM

ALIENEGYPT · 09-21-2004, 07:55 PM

I hate to interrupt these proceedings...But, I am having trouble with Back exercises and I thought GoPro and the gang could help me...I am more concerned with overall form than any particular exercise...Let me give you a little insight...I am 5'10", 170 lbs...My workout out weights on Power Week are around 85 lbs./Flat Dumbbells for Chest, 225lbs/free squats for Legs, and 135 military presses on Shoulder day, just to show you my average strength level...I have made a very big effort to concentrate on my back, and in doing so trying not to incorporate rear delts and biceps...My Lat Pulldowns are down to around 90 lbs, and T-bar is around one 45 Plate...Here is my problem (thanks for bearing with me)...I am not feeling any contraction or burn in my back...My weights are down...I am not seeing any growth, while the rest of me is gaining...Do I have an overly weak back, or am I missing the boat...Should there be a bit of swaying and jerking on back day...I watch old tapes of Arnold, Ken Waller, those guys seem to have had awful form (but big backs)...I will experiment from time to time with upping the weights and using momentum, but it results in sore bi's and rear delts in two days, and it seems the momentum aids my lats rather than strength...So, as you can see I am a bit lost...I have fooled around with form vs. weight for about a year, I just don't want to fall victim to slow growth due to bad form...Trouble is, I seem to be getting there with good intentions any way...Thanks in advance for help, I really appreciate it...

Andrew

**gopro** · 09-22-2004, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALIENEGYPT

I hate to interrupt these proceedings...But, I am having trouble with Back exercises and I thought GoPro and the gang could help me...I am more concerned with overall form than any particular exercise...Let me give you a little insight...I am 5'10", 170 lbs...My workout out weights on Power Week are around 85 lbs./Flat Dumbbells for Chest, 225lbs/free squats for Legs, and 135 military presses on Shoulder day, just to show you my average strength level...I have made a very big effort to concentrate on my back, and in doing so trying not to incorporate rear delts and biceps...My Lat Pulldowns are down to around 90 lbs, and T-bar is around one 45 Plate...Here is my problem (thanks for bearing with me)...I am not feeling any contraction or burn in my back...My weights are down...I am not seeing any growth, while the rest of me is gaining...Do I have an overly weak back, or am I missing the boat...Should there be a bit of swaying and jerking on back day...I watch old tapes of Arnold, Ken Waller, those guys seem to have had awful form (but big backs)...I will experiment from time to time with upping the weights and using momentum, but it results in sore bi's and rear delts in two days, and it seems the momentum aids my lats rather than strength...So, as you can see I am a bit lost...I have fooled around with form vs. weight for about a year, I just don't want to fall victim to slow growth due to bad form...Trouble is, I seem to be getting there with good intentions any way...Thanks in advance for help, I really appreciate it...

Andrew

This is kind of a tough one since I am not able to view your form in person to see where you may be going wrong. The whole perfect form with less weight vs. some cheating with more weight is a complex and confusing issue b/c like you said, there are many guys that cheat like crazy but have awesome backs and vice versa. Heck, the best back in bodybuilding belongs to Ronnie Coleman and he uses a ton of weight, but very "loose" form...while years ago there was a guy in pro bodybuilding named Phil Williams and he also had a tremendous and detailed back, but trained it very lightly with extremely perfect form.

For me I seem to favor different "types" of form for almost every movement I do. For some exercises, I always need to go slow and use textbook form with lighter weights, and for others I only feel it if I use max weights and less than perfect form. To put this in perspective for back training, my pulldowns and seated rows are done much lighter and with precise form, but my rowing movements are done much more loosely.

That said, I can only offer these tips on getting the most out of your back movements...

-to cut down on bicep involvement use a "false" grip on back exercises...this means the thumbs should be on the same side of the bar as the other fingers.
-use lifting straps to reinforce your grip so the forearms don't fail first.
-get a full lat stretch on every rep before pulling the weight.
-as you pull the weight make sure that your back is arched and your chest is out.
-squeeze the shoulder blades together at the contraction point.
-utilize different grips on pulldowns and rows...overhand, underhand, and parallel grip...see which one allows you to feel your back more.

Hope this helped!

ALIENEGYPT · 09-22-2004, 09:02 PM

Thanks GoPro!...Yes I know this is hard to diagnose when you cannot observe form, but I believe the theory with back training has a lot to do with my questions...When I hit back on Friday, I will be sure to concentrate on the tips you've given me...Thanks for the info!...I also need to brush up on the actual anatomy of the muscle group, that way I know what sections of back I am targeting with each exercise...Kind of like where I should feel the "burn"...Any ideas on where to start?...Back is a big muscle group, I know it is much more complex than just lats and traps...On pulldowns and seated rows, are you supposed to feel the lats contracting and pulling the weight at the very start of the exercise?...Or, do you feel it in your rear delts and bi's first?...In effect, do they get the ball rollin'...Thanks again for the help my friend...If I'm in Florida or your ever in Texas, we'll hook up a back day...

Andrew

**gopro** · 09-23-2004, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALIENEGYPT

Thanks GoPro!...Yes I know this is hard to diagnose when you cannot observe form, but I believe the theory with back training has a lot to do with my questions...When I hit back on Friday, I will be sure to concentrate on the tips you've given me...Thanks for the info!...I also need to brush up on the actual anatomy of the muscle group, that way I know what sections of back I am targeting with each exercise...Kind of like where I should feel the "burn"...Any ideas on where to start?...Back is a big muscle group, I know it is much more complex than just lats and traps...On pulldowns and seated rows, are you supposed to feel the lats contracting and pulling the weight at the very start of the exercise?...Or, do you feel it in your rear delts and bi's first?...In effect, do they get the ball rollin'...Thanks again for the help my friend...If I'm in Florida or your ever in Texas, we'll hook up a back day...

Andrew

Glad to help Andrew. Good idea to study the anatomy of the back as to learn the function of the lats, traps, rhomboids, teres, and erectors will help clue you in on how each exercise affects these muscle groups.

And if we ever meet up, it would be my pleasure to hit some back with ya

Randy · 09-23-2004, 01:00 PM

"An erector"...... Now gopro, this is a family chat....careful

**gopro** · 09-23-2004, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy

"An erector"...... Now gopro, this is a family chat....careful

Sorry, I was thinking of Sapphy when I mentioned that muscle

Randy · 09-23-2004, 03:52 PM

Welllll ok, then you are forgiven.. Sapphy can make muscle growth work in mysterious ways.

**gopro** · 09-23-2004, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy

Welllll ok, then you are forgiven.. Sapphy can make muscle growth work in mysterious ways.

Actually, its not that mysterious, LOL!

Rissole · 09-23-2004, 10:14 PM

Yep, the blood goes in..... don't come out.... (i could go on but) "this is a family chat"

Randy · 09-24-2004, 12:18 AM

Rissole...

I think the point is well defined (just take my word for it)

Sapphire · 09-24-2004, 07:09 AM

I think you boy are discussing MY favorite muscle!!

Oh yeah... Happy Birthday a little early Randy!!

Sunday right???

Randy · 09-27-2004, 01:44 AM

Yes, Thanks Sapphire.....

**gopro** · 09-27-2004, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy

Yes, Thanks Sapphire.....

Happy belated B-Day linkmaster!

09-15-2004, 12:00 PM	#211
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Diesel's really going to get jealous now
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

09-15-2004, 08:42 PM	#213
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	yeah yeah...I've heard that before
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

09-16-2004, 10:46 PM	#215
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

09-17-2004, 03:08 PM	#218
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

09-17-2004, 06:25 PM	#219
Sapphire P/RR/S groupie Join Date: May 2003 Location: anywhere my love Chris is... Posts: 4,449 Photos: 4
	Sapphire "Thank goodness that perfection is something I will never reach, which will keep me striving till the day I die" ...... GOPRO http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/at...chmentid=17570 http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/at...chmentid=17638 http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/at...chmentid=17567 http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/at...chmentid=17622

09-21-2004, 07:55 PM	#220
ALIENEGYPT In the studio... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dallas Posts: 61 Photos: 1	I hate to interrupt these proceedings...But, I am having trouble with Back exercises and I thought GoPro and the gang could help me...I am more concerned with overall form than any particular exercise...Let me give you a little insight...I am 5'10", 170 lbs...My workout out weights on Power Week are around 85 lbs./Flat Dumbbells for Chest, 225lbs/free squats for Legs, and 135 military presses on Shoulder day, just to show you my average strength level...I have made a very big effort to concentrate on my back, and in doing so trying not to incorporate rear delts and biceps...My Lat Pulldowns are down to around 90 lbs, and T-bar is around one 45 Plate...Here is my problem (thanks for bearing with me)...I am not feeling any contraction or burn in my back...My weights are down...I am not seeing any growth, while the rest of me is gaining...Do I have an overly weak back, or am I missing the boat...Should there be a bit of swaying and jerking on back day...I watch old tapes of Arnold, Ken Waller, those guys seem to have had awful form (but big backs)...I will experiment from time to time with upping the weights and using momentum, but it results in sore bi's and rear delts in two days, and it seems the momentum aids my lats rather than strength...So, as you can see I am a bit lost...I have fooled around with form vs. weight for about a year, I just don't want to fall victim to slow growth due to bad form...Trouble is, I seem to be getting there with good intentions any way...Thanks in advance for help, I really appreciate it... Andrew
	Currently Under Construction.

09-22-2004, 09:02 PM	#222
ALIENEGYPT In the studio... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dallas Posts: 61 Photos: 1	Thanks GoPro!...Yes I know this is hard to diagnose when you cannot observe form, but I believe the theory with back training has a lot to do with my questions...When I hit back on Friday, I will be sure to concentrate on the tips you've given me...Thanks for the info!...I also need to brush up on the actual anatomy of the muscle group, that way I know what sections of back I am targeting with each exercise...Kind of like where I should feel the "burn"...Any ideas on where to start?...Back is a big muscle group, I know it is much more complex than just lats and traps...On pulldowns and seated rows, are you supposed to feel the lats contracting and pulling the weight at the very start of the exercise?...Or, do you feel it in your rear delts and bi's first?...In effect, do they get the ball rollin'...Thanks again for the help my friend...If I'm in Florida or your ever in Texas, we'll hook up a back day... Andrew
	Currently Under Construction.

09-23-2004, 01:00 PM	#224
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	"An erector"...... Now gopro, this is a family chat....careful
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

09-23-2004, 03:52 PM	#226
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Welllll ok, then you are forgiven.. Sapphy can make muscle growth work in mysterious ways.
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

09-23-2004, 10:14 PM	#228
Rissole 2 Samuel 24:24 Elite Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: "OZTRAILYA" :D Posts: 8,286 Photos: 36	Yep, the blood goes in..... don't come out.... (i could go on but) "this is a family chat"
	My Journal

09-24-2004, 12:18 AM	#229
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Rissole... I think the point is well defined (just take my word for it)
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken

09-24-2004, 07:09 AM	#230
Sapphire P/RR/S groupie Join Date: May 2003 Location: anywhere my love Chris is... Posts: 4,449 Photos: 4	I think you boy are discussing MY favorite muscle!! Oh yeah... Happy Birthday a little early Randy!! Sunday right???
	Sapphire "Thank goodness that perfection is something I will never reach, which will keep me striving till the day I die" ...... GOPRO http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/at...chmentid=17570 http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/at...chmentid=17638 http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/at...chmentid=17567 http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/at...chmentid=17622

09-27-2004, 01:44 AM	#231
Randy Woof! Woof! Woof! Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: California Posts: 7,859 Photos: 4	Yes, Thanks Sapphire.....
	- O F F I C I A L . L I N K . M A S T E R - Maintains a Reference to all Gopros P/RR/S Links Gopros latest routines: CLICK HERE Lift like a Chicken Look Like a Chicken