overtraining on purpose what do you think

Twin Peak · 05-27-2004, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Oh jeez.

And I repeat....

Twin Peak · 05-27-2004, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnnny
Results are proof, all I can say.

Ah, well, yes. In addition to knowing what I am talking about, I have a few of those feathers in my cap as well.

Johnnny · 05-27-2004, 09:30 AM

All I'm saying is that if all these female & male trainers are giving their clients who want that long lean, slender difined look & it's been written in sooo many books, & from the women I see at all the gyms I've ever been to training & eating this way & getting the results they want, in my opinion they're doing something right as results speak louder than words.

JLB001 · 05-27-2004, 09:36 AM

Bodies aren't all cookie cutter.....everyone reacts differently to different things. Myself I say screw the books and do what works for you.

Johnnny · 05-27-2004, 09:40 AM

JLB001 personally if you want a certain type of physique, you have to train & diet for it. & if the majority of ppl using one method designed to achieve the physique they won't i.e. if they want more mass eat for it & train for it heavy weights & 2-4 reps or if they want long lean muscles with a slender well defined body, than they have to eat for it less calories & train for it with lighter weights & higher reps.

Novo · 05-27-2004, 09:46 AM

TP? Will you STOP using physiology to support your arguments for goodness sake - just go and ask a skinny girl on the cardio machines how she does it would you?

You know what Johnnny? You had it right when you said you thought I know nothing, I don't actually. And it's exactly because I'm aware of how much I need to learn that you have made me so angry in this thread.

Newbies, and girls in particular, DO use forums such as these for information. They may have noone else to ask, be quite nervous about the whole weights business anyway, and not have access (financially, feel insecure, whatever) to a qualified and experienced trainer. Hence ignorance like yours propagates the
MYTH that if a girl tries to lift heavy she will morph into a masculine beast.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, everyone is. But within this context to spout the crap you have been is dangerous, and that's why so many responsible people have lept all over it.

Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a bitch, if you just think about the fact that you're basing your statements on very limited experience, can't you see that it's wrong to make sweeping assumptions in this way?

Vieope · 05-27-2004, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnnny
they want long lean muscles with a slender well defined body, than they have to eat for it less calories & train for it with lighter weights & higher reps.

Ok, that is funny.

Johnnny · 05-27-2004, 09:54 AM

Novo I agree. I would tell the skinny female or male depending on if they want to gain weight, they'll need to train for it & eat for it. I would tell them to train with heavier weights & 2-4 reps & eat a high protein & high calorie diet. Which will be different from a female or male that wants to have long lean muscles. Not as many calories, & lighter weights with higher reps.

It all depends on what the individual wants.

JLB001 · 05-27-2004, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnnny
JLB001 personally if you want a certain type of physique, you have to train & diet for it. & if the majority of ppl using one method designed to achieve the physique they won't i.e. if they want more mass eat for it & train for it heavy weights & 2-4 reps or if they want long lean muscles with a slender well defined body, than they have to eat for it less calories & train for it with lighter weights & higher reps.

Well let me stump you on this one....and see if you can figure it out...

My training style is to go HEAVY with HIGH reps. It works for me. I NEVER train in the 2 to 4 rep range. It bores me. I'm sure if you went and read in my journal, my style of training and eatting precomp may just shock the hell out of you.

Like I said before....what works for one may not work for another, you just have to see what works best for you. Bodies are not cookie cutters.

nikegurl · 05-27-2004, 10:25 AM

Are we allowed to vote people off the IM island?

Just wondering....no particular reason.

Johnnny · 05-27-2004, 10:25 AM

JLB001 all I'm going to continue to say is that physical results I've seen on ppl training & dieting with the lighter weights & higer reps scheme with lower calories is results speak louder than words so these women & men are doing something right.

Johnnny · 05-27-2004, 10:27 AM

Results speak louder than words I'm done with this thread.

Results speak louder than words that is a fact.

JLB001 · 05-27-2004, 10:27 AM

Well stop trying to shove it down our throats...I think we all got the point several pages back.

Saturday Fever · 05-27-2004, 10:31 AM

OK, I've attached a picture. I'd like Johnny to guess how this guy trains.

JLB001 · 05-27-2004, 10:33 AM

Ummm....with his fingers pointed?

austinite · 05-27-2004, 10:35 AM

Quote:

My training style is to go HEAVY with HIGH reps. It works for me. I NEVER train in the 2 to 4 rep range.

Huh? I think I've seen it all on this thread LOL. High reps implies relatively lower weight. If the weight was heavy, you wouldn't be able to manage high reps with good form.

Saturday Fever · 05-27-2004, 10:36 AM

He stands about 5'10 and weighs 181, if that helps in the guessing process. He also holds the world record for squats for a 181lb class lifter with a squat over 838 pounds.

JLB001 · 05-27-2004, 10:36 AM

So Austinite....you think I don't train this way? PLEASE...bite me. I know what I lift, I know the reps that I do, and I know my form is dead on.

Saturday Fever · 05-27-2004, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by austinite
Huh? I think I've seen it all on this thread LOL. High reps implies relatively lower weight. If the weight was heavy, you wouldn't be able to manage high reps with good form.

Define heavy and high reps.

Johnnny · 05-27-2004, 10:42 AM

Saturday Fever is that you?

Well I'm not saying he is or isn't, but he could be on some steroids but I'm not sure.

He is very lean with good muscular size. So I'm guess if he still doesn't now, at one point he for a long time he probably lifted very heavy for a long period of time to get that size. I don't know how tall he is, how much he weighs, or weighed before he ever started to train because that will determine a lot on how the individual will train.

He looks as though he has a very good diet & probably does some cardio maybe 3 times a week or more.

I'm sure he eats a good 4-6 meals a day. & getting enough protein & carbs, fruit & vegetables & water.

So that's it.

I see guys like that who trained heavy for a long time b/c they were only around 150 or 170lbs & needed size. Once they get the size they either continue lifting & dieting for mass or use higer reps & lighter weight with not as many calories just to keep what they have in other words maintain.

Again it's all individual on what the person wants & how their body is prior to when they first pick up a weight.

austinite · 05-27-2004, 10:42 AM

It is a relative comparison, and the assumption is that your form is correct. When a routine suggests doing 4 sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6 repetitions, the weight should get heavier with each progressive set. Ideally the last rep is difficult to do.

greekblondechic · 05-27-2004, 10:44 AM

Know-it-alls

Saturday Fever · 05-27-2004, 10:49 AM

1) That is Phil Harrington. He lifts exclusively with heavy weights and low reps. Always has. He holds the world record for squats for 181lb lifters at over 838 pounds.

2) if 4 sets of 6 is high reps, then it's safe to say one can lift heavy and do high reps. According to Prilepin, 4 sets of 6 (24 reps) is optimal when lifting in the 70% of 1RM range. I deadlift 600lb. If I do 4 sets of 6 with 420lb, I'm lifting heavy and according to you for high reps.

austinite · 05-27-2004, 10:53 AM

Quote:

2) if 4 sets of 6 is high reps

It's not.

JLB001 · 05-27-2004, 10:55 AM

kinda what I am thinking too Greekie. Everyone trains differently, you can't knock what each person does. If it works for them then who cares?

And Austinite...I'm 2 weeks out from a show, I would think I have my training down pretty well by now since I have been doing this for many years. It's not like I'm the weekend warrior here.

Saturday Fever · 05-27-2004, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by austinite
It is a relative comparison, and the assumption is that your form is correct. When a routine suggests doing 4 sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6 repetitions, the weight should get heavier with each progressive set. Ideally the last rep is difficult to do.

Quote:

Originally posted by austinite
It's not.

That's not what you just said?

austinite · 05-27-2004, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JLB001
kinda what I am thinking too Greekie. Everyone trains differently, you can't knock what each person does. If it works for them then who cares?

And Austinite...I'm 2 weeks out from a show, I would think I have my training down pretty well by now since I have been doing this for many years. It's not like I'm the weekend warrior here.

You're right about everyone being different, I said as much above. I was disputing your definition of high reps and heavy weight. I think we're talking semantics here.

Good luck in your show.

austinite · 05-27-2004, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Saturday Fever
That's not what you just said?

You were saying 6 reps is high, that was the lowest in the sequence. I would not consider 6 high, but low. But that is just me.

JLB001 · 05-27-2004, 11:00 AM

High weights to me would be different than what you might lift since I am a girl. High reps are to me 4 sets of 15 reps, etc. Craig can attest to my form and my lifts at higher reps. When I decide to do these type of workouts, it kills him since he is use to the normal 12, 10, 8 and 6. Right now we are doing the 12, 10, 8, and 6 reps. So we do use both.

austinite · 05-27-2004, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JLB001
High weights to me would be different than what you might lift since I am a girl. High reps are to me 4 sets of 15 reps, etc.

We are in agreement. I think most consider high to be 12-15.

05-27-2004, 09:36 AM	#64
JLB001 I see YOU!! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 8,293 Photos: 5	Bodies aren't all cookie cutter.....everyone reacts differently to different things. Myself I say screw the books and do what works for you.
	"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on."

05-27-2004, 10:25 AM	#70
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,634	Are we allowed to vote people off the IM island? Just wondering....no particular reason.
	Tomorrow may be the best day of your life. Or not.

05-27-2004, 10:27 AM	#73
JLB001 I see YOU!! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 8,293 Photos: 5	Well stop trying to shove it down our throats...I think we all got the point several pages back.
	"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on."

05-27-2004, 10:33 AM	#75
JLB001 I see YOU!! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 8,293 Photos: 5	Ummm....with his fingers pointed?
	"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on."

05-27-2004, 10:36 AM	#77
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	He stands about 5'10 and weighs 181, if that helps in the guessing process. He also holds the world record for squats for a 181lb class lifter with a squat over 838 pounds.
	yay.

05-27-2004, 09:30 AM	#63
Johnnny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,844	All I'm saying is that if all these female & male trainers are giving their clients who want that long lean, slender difined look & it's been written in sooo many books, & from the women I see at all the gyms I've ever been to training & eating this way & getting the results they want, in my opinion they're doing something right as results speak louder than words.

05-27-2004, 09:40 AM	#65
Johnnny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,844	JLB001 personally if you want a certain type of physique, you have to train & diet for it. & if the majority of ppl using one method designed to achieve the physique they won't i.e. if they want more mass eat for it & train for it heavy weights & 2-4 reps or if they want long lean muscles with a slender well defined body, than they have to eat for it less calories & train for it with lighter weights & higher reps.

05-27-2004, 09:46 AM	#66
Novo Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 220	TP? Will you STOP using physiology to support your arguments for goodness sake - just go and ask a skinny girl on the cardio machines how she does it would you? You know what Johnnny? You had it right when you said you thought I know nothing, I don't actually. And it's exactly because I'm aware of how much I need to learn that you have made me so angry in this thread. Newbies, and girls in particular, DO use forums such as these for information. They may have noone else to ask, be quite nervous about the whole weights business anyway, and not have access (financially, feel insecure, whatever) to a qualified and experienced trainer. Hence ignorance like yours propagates the MYTH that if a girl tries to lift heavy she will morph into a masculine beast. Of course you're entitled to your opinion, everyone is. But within this context to spout the crap you have been is dangerous, and that's why so many responsible people have lept all over it. Honestly, and I'm not trying to be a bitch, if you just think about the fact that you're basing your statements on very limited experience, can't you see that it's wrong to make sweeping assumptions in this way?

05-27-2004, 09:54 AM	#68
Johnnny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,844	Novo I agree. I would tell the skinny female or male depending on if they want to gain weight, they'll need to train for it & eat for it. I would tell them to train with heavier weights & 2-4 reps & eat a high protein & high calorie diet. Which will be different from a female or male that wants to have long lean muscles. Not as many calories, & lighter weights with higher reps. It all depends on what the individual wants.

05-27-2004, 10:42 AM	#80
Johnnny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,844	Saturday Fever is that you? Well I'm not saying he is or isn't, but he could be on some steroids but I'm not sure. He is very lean with good muscular size. So I'm guess if he still doesn't now, at one point he for a long time he probably lifted very heavy for a long period of time to get that size. I don't know how tall he is, how much he weighs, or weighed before he ever started to train because that will determine a lot on how the individual will train. He looks as though he has a very good diet & probably does some cardio maybe 3 times a week or more. I'm sure he eats a good 4-6 meals a day. & getting enough protein & carbs, fruit & vegetables & water. So that's it. I see guys like that who trained heavy for a long time b/c they were only around 150 or 170lbs & needed size. Once they get the size they either continue lifting & dieting for mass or use higer reps & lighter weight with not as many calories just to keep what they have in other words maintain. Again it's all individual on what the person wants & how their body is prior to when they first pick up a weight.

05-27-2004, 10:42 AM	#81
austinite right-wing conspirator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: DC Area Posts: 432 Photos: 4	It is a relative comparison, and the assumption is that your form is correct. When a routine suggests doing 4 sets of 12, 10, 8 and 6 repetitions, the weight should get heavier with each progressive set. Ideally the last rep is difficult to do.

05-27-2004, 10:44 AM	#82
greekblondechic I'm special :) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 7,792	Know-it-alls
	I can do it I WILL be a size 5.

05-27-2004, 10:49 AM	#83
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	1) That is Phil Harrington. He lifts exclusively with heavy weights and low reps. Always has. He holds the world record for squats for 181lb lifters at over 838 pounds. 2) if 4 sets of 6 is high reps, then it's safe to say one can lift heavy and do high reps. According to Prilepin, 4 sets of 6 (24 reps) is optimal when lifting in the 70% of 1RM range. I deadlift 600lb. If I do 4 sets of 6 with 420lb, I'm lifting heavy and according to you for high reps.
	yay.

05-27-2004, 10:55 AM	#85
JLB001 I see YOU!! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 8,293 Photos: 5	kinda what I am thinking too Greekie. Everyone trains differently, you can't knock what each person does. If it works for them then who cares? And Austinite...I'm 2 weeks out from a show, I would think I have my training down pretty well by now since I have been doing this for many years. It's not like I'm the weekend warrior here.
	"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on."

05-27-2004, 11:00 AM	#89
JLB001 I see YOU!! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 8,293 Photos: 5	High weights to me would be different than what you might lift since I am a girl. High reps are to me 4 sets of 15 reps, etc. Craig can attest to my form and my lifts at higher reps. When I decide to do these type of workouts, it kills him since he is use to the normal 12, 10, 8 and 6. Right now we are doing the 12, 10, 8, and 6 reps. So we do use both.
	"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on."