Johnnny

Rauschgift
Do you really think I didn't know that already? Like I've said in other threads I change my routines & exercises every 3-4 weeks at most to shock the muscle as doing one particular movement for more than 4 or 5 weeks will become counterproductive as the muscle has gotten used to the movement.

As I've also said you need to lift heavy & put great pressure on a muscle to make it grow. You will not grow lifting light weights.

DrChiro

As everyone stated...there is really no such thing as isolation exercises in the terms that most people associate with the word. So get that idea out of your head.

What MAY work is stimulating more muscle fibers....it is possible that your lifting technique or just the genetic make-up of your pectoralis major. The only way to truly work all the fibers is overload (or some believe pre-exhaust works)

overload--> try some REALLY heavy partials for bench press at the beginning of your workout to stimulate more fiber recruitment....then finish up with 2-3 other full range chest exercises.

pre-exhaust-->try 3 sets of medium weight flys till failure.....then go bench. The idea is that you fatigue all of your slow twitch fibers so much that you then have to recruit your fast twitch fibers to handle the weight. (i personally am not a big fan of this type of training but i have seen people get good results with it and i think its a cool "shock" method just to shake things up a bit every few months)

(i understand that Johnnny will not give a shit about this post....but maybe some others may find it useful or comment back so we can talk and share info)

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

When one door closes another door opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the ones which open for us.

Johnnny

DrChiro
So you're saying bicep concentration curls aren't isolating the bicep's peak compared to doing standing barbell curls?

Or Side delt raises aren't isolating the side delts in comparision to doing just military presses?

If side delt raises & bicep concentration curls aren't isolatioin exercises, than what are they?

Rauschgift

Yeah REALLY I don't think you know jack shit. To be completely honest I think my 6yo daughter has a firmer understanding of exercise physiology. I think you have a firm grasp of just about every myth that there is when it comes to weight lifting. Except you believe it to be true. IMO you should do much more reading and listening and less running your mouth. What is truly funny is how you post a question and when people try to educate you on it you argue with them.

Johnnny

Rauschgift
It's called sarcasm dude.

You basically told me stuff I learned about training when I was in grade 9. I've learned much more over the last 10yrs.

If you haven't read anything I've written here, you see that I am doing most of the things already that ppl have recommended.

The whole point was to know if there wasn't something I haven't tried that would cause more over all upper chest growth.

Rauschgift

And you are making my point for me. AGAIN if you had any understanding of exercise physiology you would not be asking that question. So, if you do not know what you are talking about listen to those that do. Scientia est potestas!

nikegurl

That was an awesome way of explaining it!

If you want to achieve things that others can't...

You have to do things that others won't.

nikegurl

Hey Johnny - maybe an anatomy lesson would help. The shoulder muscle is entirely different than the chest. There really ARE 3 heads to the shoulder. So you can work the medial delt in an isolation movement vs. the entire shoulder w/the compound military press.

If you want to achieve things that others can't...

You have to do things that others won't.

Johnnny

Rauschgift

Like I said I do know what I am talking about & I do know everything that everyone has said here. About working your upper chest as a whole & so on.

I just wanted to know if there was one exercise that I didn't know that would cause greater growth than the things that I've mentioned I'm doing already.

Nikegirl

{quote] Hey Johnny - maybe an anatomy lesson would help. The shoulder muscle is entirely different than the chest. There really ARE 3 heads to the shoulder. So you can work the medial delt in an isolation movement vs. the entire shoulder w/the compound military press.[/quote]
Again you are telling me things I already knew in grade 9. There is the rear delt which rear delt flies work & isolate the area, then there is the side delt which side delt raises isolate that area & then there is the front delts. To develop overall size/strength to the shoulders military presses & dumbell presses are ideal, but you can isolate just the front delts with front delt raises with dumbells.

Like I said I learned all of this stuff along time ago. I'm looking for something new that I might not have tried yet.

IainDaniel

If you knew all this info since grade nine then why are you asking questions like

BTW Bicep peak decelopment is genetic. Just like your concerns with your middle and upper chest is, more than likely.

Obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it.

Michael Jordan

nikegurl

you say you know all this stuff but your shoulder example has nothing to do with the upper/lower/middle/inner/outer chest issue. that's why i said it seemed like you needed to brush up on muscle anatomy.

If you want to achieve things that others can't...

You have to do things that others won't.

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CowPimp

Is it just me, or does every thread that Johnnny starts end up being a never-ending debate spearheaded by the originator himself?

The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing...

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Johnnny

IainDaniel

I was asking those questions to make a point. I already knew that stuff, I was proving a point.

There is truth to that. But genetics will only take you so far. Hard training & eating enough food & dedication will take you further, & then the use of drugs will take you even further.


I don't think that I'm someone who was born with good genetics as I used to be a small 5ft8 220lb, 43inch waisted kid in highschool & it took me along time to build up to 227lbs at 5ft10 with descent condition & power. & even now after my hyper thyroid problem I'm still managing to develop my body into good condition with some good size at 210lbs & my condition is coming back very well.

I have greatly developed my bicep peak by hard & intense training & diet.

But as for overall upper chest development mainly that area of the upper chest that's causing me difficulty, that is probably genetic. Same as my traps, they get thick in the back, but at the top of my shoulders they don't gain height even though I train them hard & heavy squeezing & hold every rep at the top of every rep as I aim for my ears when I do shrugs.

nikegurl

I know the shoulder example has nothing to do lower/middle/upper chest. It was just an example just as I said it was.

Var

But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you.

-N. Machiavelli

Mudge

You can't isolate a peak.

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When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
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Var

For Johnnny...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you.

-N. Machiavelli

Jodi

This is some good shit.

Essence EFA

nikegurl

anyone care to guess whether he does it on purpose or if it really does "just turn out this way" whenever we discuss training issues with johnny?

If you want to achieve things that others can't...

You have to do things that others won't.

Var

I used to think he was just trying to stir shit. If you remember, when he first joined some dude from another board was bashing him saying he was a trouble maker. Now I'm starting to think he's just really dense and doesnt know any better. I dont expect ANYONE to have knowledge when they come here. I didnt know shit when I was a newbie...I still have a lot to learn. It starts to wear on me when a person is incapable /unwilling to learn. Too many people have spent their time trying to explain this.

But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you.

-N. Machiavelli

nikegurl

there's nothing wrong with not knowing stuff. the problem is when you don't know much AND you're sure that you do.

If you want to achieve things that others can't...

You have to do things that others won't.

DimebagDarrell

the best part is he keeps trying to "prove a point" when the point is always f-ed up

Johnnny

Mudge
Than how come if I stop doing some form of concentration curl or preacher curl for say 5 or 6 weeks & just do barbell curls & hammer curls, how come I start losing my peak to my biceps pretty quickly? & how come when I go back to doing concentration curls or preacher curls my peak returns within a couple of weeks?

Var

Dude you don't know me for sh!t or what I know & have learned over the past 10yrs & am still learning. I think you are the dense one for posting this reply.
Like I've already said I already knew everything that has been said here.

My only inquiry was to know if there was something I hadn't tried yet & this got way blown out of proportion, but that's not on my hands.

All that I was requesting was a simple reply with some exercise ideas that maybe I hadn't tried that would really cause some serious upper chest growth filling in the entire area as a whole. It's that simple.

The few of you here can think what you like about me that's your perogative, but all I can say is picture time is coming. & don't forget I've battled back to get to 210lbs post hyper thyroid as opposed to being much bigger & with descent condition at 227lbs at 5ft10. I don't care what some of you think as you don't know me & you don't know what I know.

Somewhere along the line of this thread there were major misunderstandings & that's how this whole mess got started.

Again simple request to the thread was if there were any upper chest exercises other than the ones that I'd already mentioned that I could be doing that I don't know about or have never tried.

That's all. But nobody can seem to give me an answer.

Var

If you were just wondering what exercises you could add to your routine, you should have said that. The fact is, you turned this into another "muscle shaping" debate and now you're back-peddling. I have no personal grudge against you, but it gets old to read the same thing over and over from the same person. If you already know "everything that has been said here" and are just looking for new chest exercises, dont title the thread, "Trying to fill in the inner or middle part of my upper chest".

But when you disarm them, you at once offend them by showing that you distrust them, either for cowardice or for want of loyalty, and either of these opinions breeds hatred against you.

-N. Machiavelli

Johnnny

Var


I did say that, in fact it was one of the first things I said & one of you guys misunderstood me & this whole thing blew out of proportion.

Why shouldn't I title the thread that? B/c that's what I'm trying to do. I already listed some of the exercises I was using & the poundages I was using in those exercises to show I wasn't dickn' around on my chest routine.

I've used 130lb dumbells in each hand for a good 7 reps for incline dumbell press with a full stretch & the upper chest still doesn't entirely fill out the way it should be.

Var