just finished up 8 weeks of Westside...what should i move onto next?

White_Pony · 06-29-2004, 09:05 AM

well, i've been training using the Westside Barbell method for about 8 weeks now...i saw some good gains in all my lifts, and gained a few (much needed) pounds. anyways, with the upcoming football season, i want to increase not only my overall stength, but also my speed, endurance, and agility, etc. i already have a running and sprinting/plyometric program setup. my question is, what kind of weight training routine should i use that will compliment my running?

i will be doing the sprint training twice a week, probably tuesday and thursday. that leaves all other days open for training.

all input and suggestions are welcome, thanks.

**P-funk** · 06-29-2004, 09:31 AM

how many weeks until the football season starts??

If you have been training west side for 8 weeks then maybe you should think about doing some deloading and backing off the intensity to prepare for the football season. Depending on how close you are to the start of it. Start working on game like situations (sprints, drills even plyo's, stiff like that) and then train total body or upper lower on the other days to try and maintain strength and size while emphasizing explosivness.

White_Pony · 06-29-2004, 09:42 AM

Okay, so here is what i have come up with so far. Its a pull/push/legs split. Which is completely different from westside, and thats what i want right now. Weight training will be on monday, wednesday, friday. Sprinting on Tuesday and Thursday. Weekend will be rest period, with maybe the occasional jog around the neighbourhood.

pull:
-chest supported rows
-upright rows
-lat-pulldown
-shrugs
-DB bicep curls

Push:
-DB incline press
-DB shoulder press
-Chest flies
-BB Decline press (haven't done these in a looooong time)
-overhead tricep extension
-tricep bench dip (weighted)

Legs:
-leg press
-quad extension
-good mornings (BB)
-calf raises

Most of these exercises will be done 3 sets x 8-12 reps. I'll probably add a few sets onto the leg presses. Also, abs will be done as part of my warm-up on the sprinting days.

**P-funk** · 06-29-2004, 09:44 AM

what about squats????
What about stiff leg deadlifts?

as a football player these two exercises are pretty darn important.

White_Pony · 06-29-2004, 09:44 AM

thanks P-funk for replying.
The season starts at the beginning of september, so i have about 9 weeks give or take. Yeah, i'm going to work really hard at gaining speed and agility and the like, and kind of take it a bit easier at the gym.

White_Pony · 06-29-2004, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

what about squats????
What about stiff leg deadlifts?

as a football player these two exercises are pretty darn important.

that is true, but i have been doing these like twice a week for the last 8 weeks, so i figured i should switch over to something else for awhile (i.e. leg press). i haven't done leg presses in a really long time. i'll probably start doing squats again in 2 or 3 weeks.

**P-funk** · 06-29-2004, 10:10 AM

I would not swtich out squats or SLDLs...you can back of the intensity and do more reps than what you are doing to switch it up but there is no reason that they should ever leave you routine. One exercise you should consider would be walking lunges also (maybe as a substitute for leg press). They are an exercises that focuses not only on core strength and stability but body transfer, which is sports specific to what you are doing! Step ups are great too.

Other exercise that may be beneficial and sport specific to football would be cable chest presses and swiss ball dumbell bench presses as both of these exercises place not only a great deman on core stabalization but force application and opposite reactive forces on the body, similiar to that which you will see when you hit someone on the field.

Olympic lifting would be a great idea....if you are afraid of risking injury this close to the season doing explosive compound lifts like cleans and snatched you should try doing just the beging portions of the movements which will allow your CNS the ability to recruit type IIb muscle fibers better and becore more explosive. Work on just the pulls....things like explosive shrugs and high pulls. Do them both from a clean position and from a power position (pulling from the floor). Push presses are also good.

Work on your core and abs (balance and stablization) so that you can have better balance an dcoordination on the field making it harder to knock you down. I would train core on all three of your lifting days. Static contracin of the abs is also good, especially if you are a lineman and are going to have to sit in a 3 point stance for a whole game and be able to hold your own in the trenches....things like crunching up and holding for a 4 count at peak contraction and stuff like that.

Saturday Fever · 06-29-2004, 10:39 AM

Also see the articles at elitefts about football and westside training. They're priceless, and the guy writing them does strength coaching for NFL squads.

**P-funk** · 06-29-2004, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

Also see the articles at elitefts about football and westside training. They're priceless, and the guy writing them does strength coaching for NFL squads.

that is a good idea as well.....I am from Cleveland, OH and a huge Brown's fan. Westide barbell is based OH and Louie Simmons does some strength programs for the brown's.

White_Pony · 06-29-2004, 11:34 AM

thanks for the replys. some really useful stuff in there P-funk. i'm definatly going to incorporate some of those things into my routine.

but i'm not exactly sure what swiss ball dumbell bench presses are or explosive shrugs and high pulls?

and with the walking lunges, could i just do regualr lunges? becuase there isn't a lot of room at my gym, and i don't think they'll let me take any weights into the basketball court area.
i also heard that lunges were bad for your knees. Something about stress it places on your forward knee? is this true, becasue i already have pretty bad knees.

what kind of abs and core stablization exercises do you suggest? becasue i get pretty bored with just normal sit-ups and the like. And during my Westside routine i did abs/lower back twice a week, but i didn't really notice any improvement in my stability (like when i did squats or deadlifts).

Saturday Fever · 06-29-2004, 11:38 AM

For lunges, take big steps and make sure your knee stays behind your toes. This will protect your knees.

**CowPimp** · 06-29-2004, 11:45 AM

I would think that a strength oriented program would be best for football. If I were you, I think I might continue the Westside routine and also continue to eat a lot (If you are a linebacker or another position that requires you to pack on weight).

**P-funk** · 06-29-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White_Pony

thanks for the replys. some really useful stuff in there P-funk. i'm definatly going to incorporate some of those things into my routine.

but i'm not exactly sure what swiss ball dumbell bench presses are or explosive shrugs and high pulls?

and with the walking lunges, could i just do regualr lunges? becuase there isn't a lot of room at my gym, and i don't think they'll let me take any weights into the basketball court area.
i also heard that lunges were bad for your knees. Something about stress it places on your forward knee? is this true, becasue i already have pretty bad knees.

what kind of abs and core stablization exercises do you suggest? becasue i get pretty bored with just normal sit-ups and the like. And during my Westside routine i did abs/lower back twice a week, but i didn't really notice any improvement in my stability (like when i did squats or deadlifts).

Regular lunges aren't going to stress body transfer. You can do bw walking lunges in the basketball court (superset them with leg press or dumbell squats). They are excellent for your knees as far as improving tendon strength. I wouldn't worry about them wrecking your knees at all. I have
re-habed a number of people with meniscus tears, patella femoral etc.....they are one of the staple exercises we do in our programs.

Get a swiss ball (some people call them stability balls) and you perform dumbell bench presses on it like you would a bench except that you are now on a ball so you have a greater demand placed on your obliques to control your body as you apply force and to control your body as you reciece the re-active force.

High pulls and explosive shrugs........Explosive shrugs would be like starting from the begining of a hang clean and just doing the shrug portion. you shurg up and make sure to get triple extension in the legs (ankle, knee and hips) and just stop the bars inertia at the shrug instead of allowing it to carry up and having to make the "catch" like you would if you were performing a snatch. A high pull is much like the first part of a snatch in that you are performing the beging movement and instead of catching the bar overhead you are stopping it were you would an up right row (wide grip). Think like a cheat shrug or a cheat upright row were you are popping your hips to get the bar going......shrug hard on both!

Situps are good. inch worms and bear crawls (maybe you do those durning football practice). hanging leg raises, reverse crunches. cable crunches. decline sit ups, FUll ROM sit ups, swiss ball sit ups, v-ups, jack knifes.....add weight to any of them also.

Another thing that kind of seems to get over looked in football players training programs is the importance of sagital plane presses. Most guys bench press however if you notice when you bench press your elboews are flared out much more then they are when you do something like hit someone or push someone on the field. On the field your elows are in more, placing a greater emphasis on the triceps (this press is in the sagital plane). So I would make sure to strengthen that plane of motion with things like close grip bench press, or when you do the cable presses keep your elbows in more, dips, stability ball dumbell bench presses with elbows in more (neutral grip with the dumbells) etc.....

just some more food for thought.

**P-funk** · 06-29-2004, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

For lunges, take big steps and make sure your knee stays behind your toes. This will protect your knees.

Good advice, big steps will put greater emphasis on the hip extensors (gluteus maximus and hamstrings).

White_Pony · 07-02-2004, 09:05 AM

what do you mean by bw walking lunges? do you mean backwards walking lunges? sorry, i'm just not sure what you mean. and if i do walking lunges, i won't be able to use any weight......wait wait...i just figured out what bw means...body weight...i'm a little slow sometimes. haha

White_Pony · 07-02-2004, 09:40 AM

okay so here is the "new" routine i made with the help of you guys. please let me know if I am missing anything or should take something out.

pull:
-high pulls
-chest supported rows
-CG pull-ups
-shrugs
-DB bicep curls

Push:
-DB stability ball press
-DB shoulder press
-Chest flies
-BB Decline press
-overhead tricep extension supersetted with tricep bench dip (weighted)

Legs:
-squats
-walking lunges (weighted if i can)
-quad extension
-good mornings (BB)
-calf raises

let me know what you think....i'm off to the gym for leg day!

**P-funk** · 07-02-2004, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White_Pony

okay so here is the "new" routine i made with the help of you guys. please let me know if I am missing anything or should take something out.

pull:
-high pulls
-chest supported rows
-CG pull-ups
-shrugs
-DB bicep curls

No need for shrugs if you are doing high pulls......alternate the type of pull ups you are doing from week to week if you want (wg, cg, underhand)

Push:
-DB stability ball press
-DB shoulder press
-Chest flies
-BB Decline press
-overhead tricep extension supersetted with tricep bench dip (weighted)

Can alternate between stability ball presses and regular bench press if you want. Do the shoulder presse standing. Drop the chest flies (no need for single joint work here in my opinion). Alternate between decline presses, cable presses or dips. I prefer skull crushers over the over head tricep ext. Throw in some external rotation for the shoulder.

Legs:
-squats
-walking lunges (weighted if i can)
-quad extension
-good mornings (BB)
-calf raises

looks fine

let me know what you think....i'm off to the gym for leg day!

Hope that helps a little

White_Pony · 07-02-2004, 11:31 AM

once again P-funk, you come through.
the reason i am doing flies is because a)i haven't done them in a long time, and b) because i feel that my pecs are lacking in size because i haven't directly stimulated them in awhile. i'll probably only do the flies for the next 3 weeks.

when you say external shoulder rotation, do you mean things like lateral raises and front raises?

**P-funk** · 07-02-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White_Pony

once again P-funk, you come through.
the reason i am doing flies is because a)i haven't done them in a long time, and b) because i feel that my pecs are lacking in size because i haven't directly stimulated them in awhile. i'll probably only do the flies for the next 3 weeks.

when you say external shoulder rotation, do you mean things like lateral raises and front raises?

I guess if you reall want to do the flies? I mean they are unecessary for you. Your chest is lacking then just do presses, they are better anyway and mich more functional for what you are tryign to do, which is play football. Remeber, anything sagital plane, as far as presses go will help you big time (ie close grip bench press...etc....)

External rotation is a rotator cuff exercises. You can do it with a cable or lying on your side with a ligh dumbell. Do a search hear for rotator cuff exercises to get a full explanation of the these exercises and how they should be performed.

**Mudge** · 07-02-2004, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White_Pony

what do you mean by bw walking lunges?

Bodyweight perhaps.

06-29-2004, 09:05 AM	#1
White_Pony Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 38	just finished up 8 weeks of Westside...what should i move onto next? BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com well, i've been training using the Westside Barbell method for about 8 weeks now...i saw some good gains in all my lifts, and gained a few (much needed) pounds. anyways, with the upcoming football season, i want to increase not only my overall stength, but also my speed, endurance, and agility, etc. i already have a running and sprinting/plyometric program setup. my question is, what kind of weight training routine should i use that will compliment my running? i will be doing the sprint training twice a week, probably tuesday and thursday. that leaves all other days open for training. all input and suggestions are welcome, thanks.

06-29-2004, 09:31 AM	#2
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,336	how many weeks until the football season starts?? If you have been training west side for 8 weeks then maybe you should think about doing some deloading and backing off the intensity to prepare for the football season. Depending on how close you are to the start of it. Start working on game like situations (sprints, drills even plyo's, stiff like that) and then train total body or upper lower on the other days to try and maintain strength and size while emphasizing explosivness.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-29-2004, 09:44 AM	#4
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,336	what about squats???? What about stiff leg deadlifts? as a football player these two exercises are pretty darn important.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-29-2004, 10:10 AM	#7
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,336	I would not swtich out squats or SLDLs...you can back of the intensity and do more reps than what you are doing to switch it up but there is no reason that they should ever leave you routine. One exercise you should consider would be walking lunges also (maybe as a substitute for leg press). They are an exercises that focuses not only on core strength and stability but body transfer, which is sports specific to what you are doing! Step ups are great too. Other exercise that may be beneficial and sport specific to football would be cable chest presses and swiss ball dumbell bench presses as both of these exercises place not only a great deman on core stabalization but force application and opposite reactive forces on the body, similiar to that which you will see when you hit someone on the field. Olympic lifting would be a great idea....if you are afraid of risking injury this close to the season doing explosive compound lifts like cleans and snatched you should try doing just the beging portions of the movements which will allow your CNS the ability to recruit type IIb muscle fibers better and becore more explosive. Work on just the pulls....things like explosive shrugs and high pulls. Do them both from a clean position and from a power position (pulling from the floor). Push presses are also good. Work on your core and abs (balance and stablization) so that you can have better balance an dcoordination on the field making it harder to knock you down. I would train core on all three of your lifting days. Static contracin of the abs is also good, especially if you are a lineman and are going to have to sit in a 3 point stance for a whole game and be able to hold your own in the trenches....things like crunching up and holding for a 4 count at peak contraction and stuff like that.
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! http://ivonneberkowitz.blogspot.com/....check out Ivonne's new blog! Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-29-2004, 10:39 AM	#8
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Also see the articles at elitefts about football and westside training. They're priceless, and the guy writing them does strength coaching for NFL squads.
	yay.

06-29-2004, 09:42 AM	#3
White_Pony Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 38	Okay, so here is what i have come up with so far. Its a pull/push/legs split. Which is completely different from westside, and thats what i want right now. Weight training will be on monday, wednesday, friday. Sprinting on Tuesday and Thursday. Weekend will be rest period, with maybe the occasional jog around the neighbourhood. pull: -chest supported rows -upright rows -lat-pulldown -shrugs -DB bicep curls Push: -DB incline press -DB shoulder press -Chest flies -BB Decline press (haven't done these in a looooong time) -overhead tricep extension -tricep bench dip (weighted) Legs: -leg press -quad extension -good mornings (BB) -calf raises Most of these exercises will be done 3 sets x 8-12 reps. I'll probably add a few sets onto the leg presses. Also, abs will be done as part of my warm-up on the sprinting days.

06-29-2004, 11:34 AM	#10
White_Pony Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 38	thanks for the replys. some really useful stuff in there P-funk. i'm definatly going to incorporate some of those things into my routine. but i'm not exactly sure what swiss ball dumbell bench presses are or explosive shrugs and high pulls? and with the walking lunges, could i just do regualr lunges? becuase there isn't a lot of room at my gym, and i don't think they'll let me take any weights into the basketball court area. i also heard that lunges were bad for your knees. Something about stress it places on your forward knee? is this true, becasue i already have pretty bad knees. what kind of abs and core stablization exercises do you suggest? becasue i get pretty bored with just normal sit-ups and the like. And during my Westside routine i did abs/lower back twice a week, but i didn't really notice any improvement in my stability (like when i did squats or deadlifts).

06-29-2004, 11:38 AM	#11
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	For lunges, take big steps and make sure your knee stays behind your toes. This will protect your knees.
	yay.

06-29-2004, 11:45 AM	#12
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,405	I would think that a strength oriented program would be best for football. If I were you, I think I might continue the Westside routine and also continue to eat a lot (If you are a linebacker or another position that requires you to pack on weight).
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

07-02-2004, 09:05 AM	#15
White_Pony Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 38	what do you mean by bw walking lunges? do you mean backwards walking lunges? sorry, i'm just not sure what you mean. and if i do walking lunges, i won't be able to use any weight......wait wait...i just figured out what bw means...body weight...i'm a little slow sometimes. haha

07-02-2004, 09:40 AM	#16
White_Pony Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 38	okay so here is the "new" routine i made with the help of you guys. please let me know if I am missing anything or should take something out. pull: -high pulls -chest supported rows -CG pull-ups -shrugs -DB bicep curls Push: -DB stability ball press -DB shoulder press -Chest flies -BB Decline press -overhead tricep extension supersetted with tricep bench dip (weighted) Legs: -squats -walking lunges (weighted if i can) -quad extension -good mornings (BB) -calf raises let me know what you think....i'm off to the gym for leg day!

07-02-2004, 11:31 AM	#18
White_Pony Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 38	once again P-funk, you come through. the reason i am doing flies is because a)i haven't done them in a long time, and b) because i feel that my pecs are lacking in size because i haven't directly stimulated them in awhile. i'll probably only do the flies for the next 3 weeks. when you say external shoulder rotation, do you mean things like lateral raises and front raises?

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