Tough Old Man

I would like to know if its ok to work squats and deadlifts the same day, or should i keep squats with leg days and deadlifts with back days?

pmech

I do my DL's on Back day.

Saturday Fever

You should interchange squats and deadlifts. They use the same muscles, only with a slightly different ROM. Don't do them together, use them as a complement to each other.

yay.

Flex

you answered your own q. they're too taxing to do on the same day.

sat fev-i agree the two exer. incorporate the same muscles, but i wouldnt say you "use" them persay. cuz if you're doing squats and you feel all the strain with your back, you're doing something wrong. vice versa with deads...

You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst.


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pmech

Personally when I am done with either of these exercises, I am done for the day, I spend myself completely on them, there is NO way I could do them on the same day and keep the intensity.

CowPimp

I do them on separate days.

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350Z

I do them on the same day.....I do the sumo style dead...so it's less back and more legs...I have to admit it is pretty brutal for like the next three days my legs kill when I'm walking....

my .02 350Z

Saturday Fever

Sumo style is less back and more legs? According to who?

yay.

pmech

Actually I feel it more in my lower back with SLDL and Sumo than with standard deadlifts. I believe this is most likely do to poor form on my part, but maybe I am feeling them they way they are meant to be, I dunno

CowPimp

I believe that sumo style is more back and less legs. Your legs lockout within a much smaller range of motion when doing it sumo style.

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Mudge

Some will do deadlifts every other week, and on a leg day. There are many schools of thought oh that though, and/or you can perform rack deads instead of standard deads, and then perform full pulls once monthly, or whatever.

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Saturday Fever

If your form is where it should be, the only difference between sumo and standard is the extra stress placed on the hips when pulling sumo.

yay.

Flex

If the form is where it should be, you shouldnt be using the same muscles for anything more than stabilizers.

You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you. Dat's why I'm going to kill you lahst.


* Got juice?*Need Motivation?*How to Train*
*Arnold vs. Ronnie vs. Haney vs. Sergio*
*YEAH BUDDY...LIGHT WEIGHT!*Ahhnold*

Saturday Fever

You mustn't know much about proper form for squats and deadlifts. The only things that should be different is where the bar is located and a deadlift has a slightly bigger ROM.

yay.

pmech

But you should be using your lower back more with a deadlift, correct? This is not a sarcastic question either so be gentle.

Saturday Fever

No. If you are using your lower back more in a deadlift you are either practicing bad form, OR your lower back is a weak point and needs to be trained up. Both are relatively easy to fix.

yay.

pmech

Ok thanks, will review procedures once again , I dont think that my lower back is a weak point so it must be form. Will make my son video me next week.

And another note on this. The Erector Spinae isnt suppose to be used with the squat but is used with the deaflift, and that is what the lower back is, correct?

CowPimp

The main thing people do wrong with squatting seems to be sitting down instead of back. If you sit back, then the form is closer to a deadlift.

I sit down during RR week do stimulate my quads more. However, if you squat properly (PL style) your gluts and hamstrings become more important. Same thing with deadlifts. I never realized how important hams and gluts were until I started trying to really get my form down when pulling big weights with squats and deadlifts.

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pmech

Agreed, The only thing I am trying to identify is if I should in fact be feeling it in my lower back more when I deadlift than when I squat. Based upon the texts I have looked at for activated muscles for the two it shows that it should be this way. I understand it shouldnt be the one doing the most effort, but I should feel it in the back, because I definetley do not feel it in the back when I squat. Are these statements then correct?

Saturday Fever

What you've been looking at is giving you bad information.

Read the thread I started entitled "Squatting Like a Powerlifter, Squatting Big" in the Training forum. Apply that form to both squats and deads.

It may be, also, that you're trying to pull back with your lower back. I've never seen you do a deadlift so I can't identify much right now. If you get pics or videos of you pulling, I'm sure I can nail out what you need to fix.

Again, this is coming from bad info.

yay.

pmech

Ok will do thanks.

oh and I have been looking here - http://www.exrx.net/

Saturday Fever

Oh fuck. I forgot why I never go to exrx.net

Holy shit. That would put the tension almost exclusively on your quads. You DON'T deadlift with your quads. At least not if you want to move any real weight. Not to mention your knees will get pissed and this kind of form will put horrible strain on your back.

Hellfire and brimstone! Keep your hips low?? What the hell kind of shit advice is this? It's statements like these that make me discredit everything a website has to say.

Back straight?? Man, this is golden. If you fill your belly with air and ARCH your back like you're supposed to, you are protecting your spine. If you leave your back straight, you are leaving your spine vulnerable.

Keep bar close to body?? This is yet another poor form idea that will lead to the problems I've already described.

I get a lot of flak about refuting other people's evidence because of the source they cite. But when a site as large and known as exrx.net puts horible disinformation like this on their site, I don't see why I should lend any credit to anything else they say about anything.

yay.

Mudge

I never looked at that stuff but I dont like the bent over rows demonstration.

pmech

Ok so it may be wrong. I just look at it for specific muscles that are hit, ie, not for demonstration of exercises.

"Mistakes during deadlifts" post your made like two weeks ago. so I have been pretty much true to form on that, I think the only thing I may be doing now is letting my back bend to far over on the way up. I will get the vid and post it on my site and send you a link. Just not till next Tuesday

Saturday Fever

This screams of a weak lower back. And I don't mean weak like pre-spinach Popeye, I just mean that it appears to be the weak link in your lift.

I say this because your shoulders should be pulling back at the same rate your hips push forward. Your entire body should be moving fluidly throughout the lift. When your hips shoot up and your back comes up last, it means your hamstrings are overpowering your lower back.

Hope that makes sense.

yay.

pmech

It does, but I let my back pause its movement a little more and then at the top I use my back to lock into place, I hope that makes sense. I think that maybe where I am failing. again a form issue. I just thought it was always suppose to be like that so it worked the lower back more effectively.

I will see once I get the video, then everyone can point and laugh

Until then I wont speculate anymore or expect for anyone to try and figure this out without seeing it.