Skull Crushers vs CG Bench

**Mudge** · 09-15-2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

TALK IS CHEAP

Then why partake in potshots?

Tough Old Man · 09-16-2004, 07:17 PM

Hey mudge this tough old man really started some shit here. I'll have to put these kids to bed

pumpchaser · 10-08-2004, 12:55 PM

I think i've entered the WWF..

Fully agree with one of the earliest posts-skullcrushers and CGB are two different animals.

Skullcrushers if done properly-to behind the head with both hands around a dumbell or with an E-Z curl bar, are vastly more effective for the long head, and much less traumatic on the joints, provided a couple of light warmup sets are thrown in first. I've never understood doing them to the forehead given the trauma they can produce, and the fact that they hit the triceps closer to the elbow. Interesting that most BBs, even great ones, haven't tried most versions to find out the best ones for themselves. Having a great physique doesn't assure perfect knowledge. Arnold's version is by no means anything other than a variation-i've tried it and it didn't work as well for me as lowering off the bench behind me. An awesome variation of this that you won't see many do or even ever experiment with, is lying triceps extensions using a floor pulley below and in front of the bench.

A nice, rarely done version that you won't see many doing, and further proof that BBs aren't necessarily more knowledgeable, is lying triceps extensions on a decline bench using an E-Z curl bar.

CGB is considered more for the lateral head, with some work for the others, so they're not the same thing, though each person is different. A nice variation of this is CGB on an incline, using either a barbell or floor pulley. CGB is something i alternate with bench dips, which are IMO better for tris than regular dips.

Saturday Fever · 10-08-2004, 01:08 PM

What the fuck? So if it's considered rude to put your elbows on the table at dinner, does that make it a fact? I'm disregarding your post before any more of my brain cells die.

pumpchaser · 10-08-2004, 01:09 PM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Saturday Fever · 10-08-2004, 01:10 PM

You talk a lot, but you never say anything.

pumpchaser · 10-08-2004, 01:12 PM

I don't pretend to have your sophistication. Say "hi" to the other inmates for me..

**dg806** · 10-08-2004, 01:29 PM

Let's not start this again. This is going nowhere. IMO, CGB adds more mass to the triceps if for no other reason than the amount of weight that you do.

**Mudge** · 10-08-2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpchaser

and the fact that they hit the triceps closer to the elbow.

Say what?

**dg806** · 10-08-2004, 10:18 PM

re-opening for intelligent conversation..............please keep it civil!

Tough Old Man · 10-08-2004, 10:51 PM

Thanks DG806 for bringing me back alive.
Because of severe elbow pain I'm giving up skulls for good. Got to tell you all, I'm not sure which one is the better of the two, but I'm personally going to miss them. One of the only thing I had to look to was the strength and the size of my triceps as my bi's aren't poop. Hope starting up bar dips will help as I want to push these arms to 20". need 1/2" more.

**CowPimp** · 10-08-2004, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

reverse grip BP is another good one for the triceps...

I agree, although I think it feels a little akward until you get used to it. Also, reverse grip seems to really hit the anterior delts well.

I prefer CG bench press to skull crushers anyway. It's more compound, and I can move a lot more weight. Plus, skullcrushers put a little strain on the elbows. However, I currently employ both in my routine.

camarosuper6 · 10-09-2004, 12:06 AM

I seriously spit out my protein shake when I was going through the second page of this thread. Absolutely Hilarious!

I think we all can see how ridiculous MTN WARRIOR'S theories are, so I will venture to say that I agree with the notion that CG are better overall mass builders, as DG said, simply because the amount of weight that can be used. I still believe wholeheartedly in the Maximum Overload=Maximum Growth.
(MAX-OT STYLE)

All this gibbergabber about Bodybuilders routines and Dr.Tiny Dick Ph.D don't mean SQUAT.

There are hundreds of Ph.D's out there scamming the world with false claims and infomercials, but I surely dont buy into MagnaRX or CortoSlim.. do you?

If you want a good solid reference, MTN WARRIOR, not some Flex Advertisement on King Kamali's op/ed piece on why 25 exercises for shoulders is the "way to go", try the Journal of Applied Physiology. That might clear up some of your misunderstandings.

BerryBlis · 10-09-2004, 12:07 AM

Hey,

What do you guys think about tricep kickbacks? I was doing them, but then got a shoulder injury so I couldn't do them anymore (I have no idea why my shoulder injury affected this but it hurt like hell so I couldn't do it) and have since replaced them with skullcrushers. Now for triceps I do skullcrushers, overhead extensions and dips. Do you think this is okay, or should I add/change something?

BerryBlis

Du · 10-09-2004, 12:11 AM

How come no one mentions the best benefit of CG bench.... getting your max bench up??

CG bench are my bread and butter for tris, but I also do skullcrusers and overhead extensions, as well as dips. But I love the Cg not only for the mass gains, but because it definitely, definitely helps my bench weights.

Du · 10-09-2004, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerryBlis

Hey,

What do you guys think about tricep kickbacks? I was doing them, but then got a shoulder injury so I couldn't do them anymore (I have no idea why my shoulder injury affected this but it hurt like hell so I couldn't do it) and have since replaced them with skullcrushers. Now for triceps I do skullcrushers, overhead extensions and dips. Do you think this is okay, or should I add/change something?

BerryBlis

I dont like kickbacks, personally. I can never get too much weight up with them, and theyre awkward. Stick with close-grip bench, skullcrushers, dips, pushdowns, and extensions, and youll be golden.

**CowPimp** · 10-09-2004, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTN WARRIOR

YOU JUST SAYING ITS SCIENCE IS WRONG. SCIENCE HAS NEVER SAID WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, NO TEACHER, NO TEXTBOOK. THEY TALK ABOUT MUSCLE CONSTRUCTION BUT NOT THAT YOU CANT "ATTACK" IT DIFFERENT WAYS AND GET DIFFERENT RESULTS. SHOW ME MOTHERFUCKER.

Alright, first of all that first sentence is total gibberish. I don't even know what you mean exactly.

Concerning the rest of the post, where is your proof that you can attack the muscle in different ways and get different results. I'm not saying there isn't any, in fact I knew a theory or two about why it does make a difference, but I don't see you presenting any proof.

camarosuper6 · 10-09-2004, 01:24 AM

There are some theories about so called "muscle shaping" and such, but as of now, the evidence is overwhelmingly in the corner of a muscle contracting from point of flexion to pt of insertion, and shape being totally genetic.

**Mudge** · 10-09-2004, 01:36 AM

Even Jay Cutler swears by CG benches and he uses light weights frequently.

**Mudge** · 10-09-2004, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I agree, although I think it feels a little akward until you get used to it.

Get under the bar as best you can before unracking

Other than that I used to really like them, maybe I will use them again. I was able to do 90% of my bench max but I have no idea now, my triceps do need some serious strength though because that is where I am weak in my benching.

camarosuper6 · 10-09-2004, 01:43 AM

Mudge.. how close is your grip on a standard Barbell for CG...

I generally use about a 10 inch grip or so, to keep pressure off my wrists, but am not sure if I should be aiming a little more close together.

**Mudge** · 10-09-2004, 01:51 AM

I go to where the knurl starts, so my forefinger is right there at the knurling. In Jay's last vid he goes a tad wider, I go to about 3-4 inches or so off the chest before I go back up, or I will use 2-3 boards and add more weight.

Duncans Donuts · 10-09-2004, 03:55 AM

I do CGs with about a 4 inch spacing (maybe closer to 5). Mudge, do you not take them all the way down to your chest?

I've been doing CGs and cut out any other chest exercise. I use it for my chest and have had great results with it for both pecs and triceps.

pumpchaser · 10-09-2004, 07:41 AM

CGs seem to be a favorite, but are mainly for the lateral head. The fact that they're compound, or that more weight can be used, is irrelevant for many who don't see much benefit while experiencing all sorts of shoulder trauma by sticking with it because it's supposed to work. For that large portion of BBs, flyes and more isolated triceps exercises are both better and far less injurious. CGs and regular benches never did much for me in any regard, other than causing bursitis. On the other hand, there's a whole group of natural bench pressers who can handle huge weight, avoid injury and see great benefits. Then again, these guys might have grown on any number of other exercises, but never had to try them.

The largest part of the tricep requires motions in which the elbows are around or above the head. These exercises create a soreness in the belly of the tricep that i've never gotten from CGs or other exercises like dips that are hitting the lateral and medial heads primarily.

M.J.H. · 10-09-2004, 08:02 AM

I agree with SF hands down as well. I would not trust a word that Ronnie, or any of the pro bobybuilders today said about training physiology, etc. BTW, the EMG studies have been proven useless in terms of hypertrophy.

Quote:

The ROUTINE the pros use is indisuptable.

pumpchaser · 10-09-2004, 08:14 AM

Interesting: today's steroid users are somehow bereft of common sense in all areas because you disaprove of their lifestyle. Actually, his training has always left me with an impression of open mindedness that i've not seen with many BBs from the past or present.

camarosuper6 · 10-09-2004, 12:28 PM

Its not their steroid use that makes their opinion worthless.

Its the fact they are usually just plain stupid.

10-08-2004, 12:55 PM	#63
pumpchaser Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: NY Posts: 149 Photos: 2	I think i've entered the WWF.. Fully agree with one of the earliest posts-skullcrushers and CGB are two different animals. Skullcrushers if done properly-to behind the head with both hands around a dumbell or with an E-Z curl bar, are vastly more effective for the long head, and much less traumatic on the joints, provided a couple of light warmup sets are thrown in first. I've never understood doing them to the forehead given the trauma they can produce, and the fact that they hit the triceps closer to the elbow. Interesting that most BBs, even great ones, haven't tried most versions to find out the best ones for themselves. Having a great physique doesn't assure perfect knowledge. Arnold's version is by no means anything other than a variation-i've tried it and it didn't work as well for me as lowering off the bench behind me. An awesome variation of this that you won't see many do or even ever experiment with, is lying triceps extensions using a floor pulley below and in front of the bench. A nice, rarely done version that you won't see many doing, and further proof that BBs aren't necessarily more knowledgeable, is lying triceps extensions on a decline bench using an E-Z curl bar. CGB is considered more for the lateral head, with some work for the others, so they're not the same thing, though each person is different. A nice variation of this is CGB on an incline, using either a barbell or floor pulley. CGB is something i alternate with bench dips, which are IMO better for tris than regular dips. Last edited by pumpchaser : 10-08-2004 at 01:11 PM.

10-08-2004, 01:08 PM	#64
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	What the fuck? So if it's considered rude to put your elbows on the table at dinner, does that make it a fact? I'm disregarding your post before any more of my brain cells die.
	yay.

10-08-2004, 01:10 PM	#66
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	You talk a lot, but you never say anything.
	yay.

10-08-2004, 01:12 PM	#67
pumpchaser Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: NY Posts: 149 Photos: 2	I don't pretend to have your sophistication. Say "hi" to the other inmates for me.. Last edited by pumpchaser : 10-08-2004 at 01:27 PM.

10-08-2004, 01:29 PM	#68
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,435	Let's not start this again. This is going nowhere. IMO, CGB adds more mass to the triceps if for no other reason than the amount of weight that you do.
	www.sbmuscle.com

09-16-2004, 07:17 PM	#62
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	Hey mudge this tough old man really started some shit here. I'll have to put these kids to bed

10-08-2004, 01:09 PM	#65
pumpchaser Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: NY Posts: 149 Photos: 2	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz

10-08-2004, 10:18 PM	#70
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 17,435	re-opening for intelligent conversation..............please keep it civil!
	www.sbmuscle.com

10-08-2004, 10:51 PM	#71
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	Thanks DG806 for bringing me back alive. Because of severe elbow pain I'm giving up skulls for good. Got to tell you all, I'm not sure which one is the better of the two, but I'm personally going to miss them. One of the only thing I had to look to was the strength and the size of my triceps as my bi's aren't poop. Hope starting up bar dips will help as I want to push these arms to 20". need 1/2" more.

10-09-2004, 12:06 AM	#73
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,354	I seriously spit out my protein shake when I was going through the second page of this thread. Absolutely Hilarious! I think we all can see how ridiculous MTN WARRIOR'S theories are, so I will venture to say that I agree with the notion that CG are better overall mass builders, as DG said, simply because the amount of weight that can be used. I still believe wholeheartedly in the Maximum Overload=Maximum Growth. (MAX-OT STYLE) All this gibbergabber about Bodybuilders routines and Dr.Tiny Dick Ph.D don't mean SQUAT. There are hundreds of Ph.D's out there scamming the world with false claims and infomercials, but I surely dont buy into MagnaRX or CortoSlim.. do you? If you want a good solid reference, MTN WARRIOR, not some Flex Advertisement on King Kamali's op/ed piece on why 25 exercises for shoulders is the "way to go", try the Journal of Applied Physiology. That might clear up some of your misunderstandings.
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

10-09-2004, 12:07 AM	#74
BerryBlis Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 94	Hey, What do you guys think about tricep kickbacks? I was doing them, but then got a shoulder injury so I couldn't do them anymore (I have no idea why my shoulder injury affected this but it hurt like hell so I couldn't do it) and have since replaced them with skullcrushers. Now for triceps I do skullcrushers, overhead extensions and dips. Do you think this is okay, or should I add/change something? BerryBlis
BerryBlis Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 94

10-09-2004, 12:11 AM	#75
Du Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,085 Photos: 5	How come no one mentions the best benefit of CG bench.... getting your max bench up?? CG bench are my bread and butter for tris, but I also do skullcrusers and overhead extensions, as well as dips. But I love the Cg not only for the mass gains, but because it definitely, definitely helps my bench weights.
	My IronMag Journal

10-09-2004, 01:24 AM	#78
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,354	There are some theories about so called "muscle shaping" and such, but as of now, the evidence is overwhelmingly in the corner of a muscle contracting from point of flexion to pt of insertion, and shape being totally genetic.
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

10-09-2004, 01:36 AM	#79
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,069 Photos: 1	Even Jay Cutler swears by CG benches and he uses light weights frequently.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-09-2004, 01:43 AM	#81
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,354	Mudge.. how close is your grip on a standard Barbell for CG... I generally use about a 10 inch grip or so, to keep pressure off my wrists, but am not sure if I should be aiming a little more close together.
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?

10-09-2004, 01:51 AM	#82
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23,069 Photos: 1	I go to where the knurl starts, so my forefinger is right there at the knurling. In Jay's last vid he goes a tad wider, I go to about 3-4 inches or so off the chest before I go back up, or I will use 2-3 boards and add more weight.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-09-2004, 03:55 AM	#83
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	I do CGs with about a 4 inch spacing (maybe closer to 5). Mudge, do you not take them all the way down to your chest? I've been doing CGs and cut out any other chest exercise. I use it for my chest and have had great results with it for both pecs and triceps.
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

10-09-2004, 07:41 AM	#84
pumpchaser Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: NY Posts: 149 Photos: 2	CGs seem to be a favorite, but are mainly for the lateral head. The fact that they're compound, or that more weight can be used, is irrelevant for many who don't see much benefit while experiencing all sorts of shoulder trauma by sticking with it because it's supposed to work. For that large portion of BBs, flyes and more isolated triceps exercises are both better and far less injurious. CGs and regular benches never did much for me in any regard, other than causing bursitis. On the other hand, there's a whole group of natural bench pressers who can handle huge weight, avoid injury and see great benefits. Then again, these guys might have grown on any number of other exercises, but never had to try them. The largest part of the tricep requires motions in which the elbows are around or above the head. These exercises create a soreness in the belly of the tricep that i've never gotten from CGs or other exercises like dips that are hitting the lateral and medial heads primarily. Last edited by pumpchaser : 10-09-2004 at 08:31 AM.

10-09-2004, 08:14 AM	#86
pumpchaser Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: NY Posts: 149 Photos: 2	Interesting: today's steroid users are somehow bereft of common sense in all areas because you disaprove of their lifestyle. Actually, his training has always left me with an impression of open mindedness that i've not seen with many BBs from the past or present.

10-09-2004, 12:28 PM	#87
camarosuper6 Back Home In SOCAL Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 3,354	Its not their steroid use that makes their opinion worthless. Its the fact they are usually just plain stupid.
	"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions" G.K.Chesterton Boot Shine and Polish $15. New Uniforms: $250 New gun and holster: $450 Looking like a stud in uniform: Priceless Girl: Me and this new guy are getting kinda chummy. Me: Good chummy? Like friends forever? Girl: Ya Me: Or Chummy like, spank my ass chummy?