Thread: Myth of Strength Compared to Muscle Mass

Strength has a lot to do with your neurological efficiency. People who train properly for strength are able to recruit more muscle fibers to do the job more efficiently.

Let's say you have larger arms than another guy.

You can curl 100lbs for 1 rep and use approximately 70% of your muscle fibers to complete the lift.

The other guy with smaller arms can curl 115lbs for 1 rep and uses 85% of his muscle fibers to complete the lift.

The other guy has is stronger because his nervous system works more efficiently and recruits more fibers to do the job.

Now I'm kind of getting ahead of myself, but muscle fibers only increase in diameter. They do not increase in number(Increase in total number of muscle fibers has been shown in animals but is not likely to happen in humans). So even if two guys have the same size muscles, one guy can be significantly stronger than the other.

Well, I started to get away from the subject but i got to go!

Hope that makes sense.

In general:

A bigger muscle is a stonger muscle.

A stronger muscle is not necessarily a bigger muscle, but if you're progressing with reps or more weight on your major exercises each week, and you're gaining weight on the scales (but not a stupid amount of fat from crazy calorie intake), then the probability is that you're growing.

I had posted this on getbig.com, but I think it is appropriate for this site as well:

EVERYONE READ THE FOLLOWING VERY CAREFULLY. THERE ARE SOME VERY COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS RELATED TO SIZE AND STRENGTH WHICH WILL BE CLEARED UP BELOW:

Ok, between individuals, in other words, if we were comparing 2 or more individuals, size does not correlate directly with strength. You could have a 150 lb guy outlift a 250 lb guy with similar bodyfat who is also similar in height (i.e. he has a LOT more muscle).

The reason for this relates to several factors just some of which are listed below in no particular order:

1) Ability of individual muscle fibers to produce force. In other words, one guy's fibers, if stimulated, can produce more force than the next guy's.

2) Ability to recruit a greater number of motor units. This relates to how many fibers can be called into action within a very short timeframe (when referencing 1RM).

3) Ability to coordinate muscular action. One's ability to make his muscles work together more efficiently in order to lift the weight.

4) Ability of one's nervous system to stimulate the motor units in the most efficient fashion to produce maximum force (this is different than 3, but I don't want to bore you with details).

5) Anatomy in terms of where one's muscles insert and attach. The skeletal system and muscular attachments serve as a "lever" system. My lever system might be better than yours.

The list goes on but you get the idea.

With the above being true, it is also true that intra-individually increased muscular size equals increased strength. Why? A significant portion of the increased size is due to an increase in the size of the contractile fibers of the muscle cell. When these fibers increase in size they are able to produce greater force. Thus, with respect to the individual, a larger muscle is a stronger one.

Originally Posted by chris mason

2) Ability to recruit a greater number of motor units. This relates to how many fibers can be called into action within a very short timeframe (when referencing 1RM).

4) Ability of one's nervous system to stimulate the motor units in the most efficient fashion to produce maximum force (this is different than 3, but I don't want to bore you with details).

As you guys have heard me say many times, there are different kinds of strength. A guy who squats 600x1 can't necessarily squat 400x10. You have to specifically train a type of strength. You may be after the almighty 1RM. You may be after how much weight you can do with 6 reps on bench. Those goals have significantly different training methods.

However, as was said before, a bigger muscle has the potential to be a stronger muscle. It just has to be trained properly.

Originally Posted by chris mason

I had posted this on getbig.com, but I think it is appropriate for this site as well:


5) Anatomy in terms of where one's muscles insert and attach. The skeletal system and muscular attachments serve as a "lever" system. My lever system might be better than yours.

This is a huge one. I can't remember the exact numbers, but as little as a half of an inch further down or up on a bone equates to a ridiculous amount of leverage.

also I see many other people with less size lift weights much heavier then me, could the only fact be that its beacuse I dont lift with powerlifting form and thats the only reason or could it be that its the direct result of different training that I use

Bingo. Hypertrophy will happen if you eat enough and lift weights. Strength is trained in specific ways and very deliberately. So that buries my point home that you can do a strength routine and you'll get just as big, granted you're eating right.

Time and eating can help bring about hypertrophy along with the training, strength training IMO is also very much mental training.

We wouldn't have 198 pound guys with ~2000 totals if you had to be huge to be strong.

Look at people on PCP or in times of great stress, the human body can do things that your concious mind wont let it do. Look at monks who can raise their body temperature to the point where steam will come off of wet sheets draped over their bodies, and sleep in the snow near naked, there are things the body can do which require mental training and to me that is a very large aspect of this "game."

Most people dont know what 100% training is, most people can't do it. I for one would not claim at this time to be 100% at all but I'm chasing it.

I am at least at 35% if not 40

Originally Posted by Mudge

Time and eating can help bring about hypertrophy along with the training, strength training IMO is also very much mental training.

I agree. I am trying to focus more on mental preparation before every single set during my workouts. I believe it helps. At least I feel more confident in my form when I mentally prepare.

In PL organizations if you go for a second lift, you have to add at least 10 pounds unless you are waiving the right to a 3rd lift then you can go down to 5. On the 3rd lift minimum is 5 pounds.

In most gym situations thats crazy, unless you are AMPED for the lift. I know I "can't" just add 10 pounds to my bench any old time. Nose tork and/or amonia caps will be used, Kaz took two cracked amonia caps and shoved one up each nostril and kept on lifting in one story, I dont have footage of that one unfortunately. He does have a good mid 600 raw bench to his credit.

Originally Posted by Mudge

Look at monks who can raise their body temperature to the point where steam will come off of wet sheets draped over their bodies.

actually i peed

Originally Posted by Mudge

In PL organizations if you go for a second lift, you have to add at least 10 pounds unless you are waiving the right to a 3rd lift then you can go down to 5. On the 3rd lift minimum is 5 pounds.

In most gym situations thats crazy, unless you are AMPED for the lift. I know I "can't" just add 10 pounds to my bench any old time. Nose tork and/or amonia caps will be used, Kaz took two cracked amonia caps and shoved one up each nostril and kept on lifting in one story, I dont have footage of that one unfortunately. He does have a good mid 600 raw bench to his credit.

That would be 661 lbs if I remember correctly. He probably would have hit 700+ RAW but he tore his pec in the WSM.

Glen Chabot tore his twice 661 sounds like a good figure, Chabot was 675 last I saw raw.

I'm only 44% weaker than the worlds strongest raw bencher though, yay... I am curious what Rychlak would do raw, because I'm not convinced he is getting 300 pounds out of a shirt and a big gut, who knows though.

I have a friend who is very involved in powerlifting tell me he saw Rychlak (sp?) get buried with 700 lbs with a single-ply shirt. It may have been at the first Bench America, I cannot recall for sure. That is why I don't have a lot of respect for his record. Guys like Mendelson and Ryan K. are much better benchers in my opinion.

Mendelson is training with over a grand right now. All I can say that I've heard about Gene is that his form is perfect, since I keep hearing he wears a double poly I dont see it helping him that much unless its ultra ultra tight, but I dont know about that first or even second hand what size he puts on. Most of the bigger guys (Gene was 370ish when he put up 965) go denim.