regarding barbell rows, always see 2 forms done by different body types

Johnnny · 09-29-2004, 05:49 PM

I always see the big huge probably enhanced body builders at my gym & the 2 nationally ranked power lifters one of them being the 2003 World's Strongest man that we see on tv always doing their barbell rows for their lats at an almost upright position with just a slight bend & arch in the back & knees somewhat bent.

Then I see ppl usually much smaller doing their barbell rows completely bent over, back arched, & knees bent bringing the weight up.

I do both forms as I change it every few weeks.

But it seems to me from what I've seen that the big guys always use the first barbell row form I mentioned above, even in Dorian yates's Blood n' Gut's video which I have he does his rows in this manner.

What do you think is best?

I think both forms work best for a certain amount of weeks at a time.

**CowPimp** · 09-29-2004, 06:17 PM

Continue doing them both. The bent row with a more upright posture has been coined a Yates row. I usually do Yates rows because it allows me to throw around bigger weights, but that is just personal preference.

Johnnny · 09-29-2004, 06:39 PM

CowPimp

Quote:

Continue doing them both. The bent row with a more upright posture has
been coined a Yates row. I usually do Yates rows because it allows me
to throw around bigger weights, but that is just personal preference.

I agree I do both, so in other words both forms are effective?

solid10 · 09-29-2004, 07:05 PM

The first form seems more comfortable for me.

soxmuscle · 09-29-2004, 07:56 PM

I do the first style you mentioned, and when I used to do it the other way, guys at my gym would always be telling to stand more upwards.

It's stuck, although I dont think either way is "better" than the other.

Johnnny · 09-29-2004, 09:16 PM

solid10

Quote:

The first form seems more comfortable for me.

I've noticed that as well.

soxmuscle

Quote:

I do the first style you mentioned, and when I used to do it the other way, guys at my gym would always be telling to stand more upwards.

It's stuck, although I dont think either way is "better" than the other.

Well steroids or not that's the type of form the big boys seem to use & all I can say is they have thick, wide backs, even natural training ppl who use this form seem to develop larger backs than the 2nd form I mention.

Thanks for the input.

What about Firestorm, DiMaggio, Metal V Player, &Gopro?

What are your outlooks on this subject?

gr81 · 09-29-2004, 09:43 PM

Quote:

barbell rows for their lats at an almost upright position with just a slight bend & arch in the back & knees somewhat bent.

performing them this way is not an optimal way to recruit your lats into the movement now is it? it becomes more of an upward shoulder row this way, I don't care who you know that does it this way or how famous they are. Think about it, its simple physics

Yanick · 09-29-2004, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr81

performing them this way is not an optimal way to recruit your lats into the movement now is it? it becomes more of an upward shoulder row this way, I don't care who you know that does it this way or how famous they are. Think about it, its simple physics

I gotta agree with this, reason you're throwing around more weight and it feels more comfortable (easier?) is because your shortening your ROM and staying more upright is easier to stabilize.

Mortality · 09-29-2004, 10:24 PM

the first method works your upper/middle back and traps more instead of your lats and it has a smaller ROM(thus allowing you to use more weight), if you do it completely upright then it's basically a barbell shrug.

if you use a shit loads of weight then it's really hard to completely bend over because of the amount pressure on your lower back. did you also notice that the people who use the first method also tend to lift more weight??

Robboe · 09-30-2004, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Continue doing them both. The bent row with a more upright posture has been coined a Yates row. I usually do Yates rows because it allows me to throw around bigger weights, but that is just personal preference.

The "official" Yates row uses a supsinated grip. The pronated grip row is just a BB row with a different angle.

Johnnny · 09-30-2004, 09:36 AM

gr81

Quote:

performing them this way is not an optimal way to recruit your lats into the movement now is it? it becomes more of an upward shoulder row this way, I don't care who you know that does it this way or how famous they are. Think about it, its simple physics

Than why do all the big boys steroids or not who use this form for barbell rows have big, wide thick backs? Even non steroid users develop really big backs from this form.

Mortality

Quote:

the first method works your upper/middle back and traps more instead of your lats and it has a smaller ROM(thus allowing you to use more weight), if you do it completely upright then it's basically a barbell shrug.

if you use a shit loads of weight then it's really hard to completely bend over because of the amount pressure on your lower back. did you also notice that the people who use the first method also tend to lift more weight??

This is true as with the first form I use about 245lbs for 6-8 reps while I can only do 205lbs completely bent over for 4-6 reps.

The_Chicken_Daddy

Quote:

The "official" Yates row uses a supsinated grip. The pronated grip row is just a BB row with a different angle.

How would you describe this grip?

**CowPimp** · 09-30-2004, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

Than why do all the big boys steroids or not who use this form for barbell rows have big, wide thick backs? Even non steroid users develop really big backs from this form.

Because one movement doesn't define the size or strength of a person's back. Who says all people with large and strong backs use the more upright stance anyway? This is hardly a valid statistic.

Johnnny · 09-30-2004, 02:24 PM

CowPimp

Quote:

Because one movement doesn't define the size or strength of a person's back. Who says all people with large and strong backs use the more
upright stance anyway? This is hardly a valid statistic.

Well in every gym I've been to with large power lifters & bodybuilders & all the workout videos I've seen with huge men or big football player workout videos, they all use the somewhat upright form & they have huge backs.

Including Dorian Yates & look at his back with the help of GH & other anabolics, but he still had a great back even when he was only 190-200lbs.

**P-funk** · 09-30-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

I gotta agree with this, reason you're throwing around more weight and it feels more comfortable (easier?) is because your shortening your ROM and staying more upright is easier to stabilize.

I agree with yan and gr81 on this. it is almost more like a shrug when you are that upright. I stopped doing bent over barbell rows awhile ago though. to much pressure on the lower back IMO.

Saturday Fever · 09-30-2004, 02:49 PM

I do mine much differently I think. I use my bench width grip, arch the hell out of my back, pull back my shoulders and basically do my bench motion in reverse, pulling the bar to my sternum/stomach and letting it descend higher up like a bench lockout placement.

If that makes any sense.

**CowPimp** · 09-30-2004, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

CowPimp

Well in every gym I've been to with large power lifters & bodybuilders & all the workout videos I've seen with huge men or big football player workout videos, they all use the somewhat upright form & they have huge backs.

Including Dorian Yates & look at his back with the help of GH & other anabolics, but he still had a great back even when he was only 190-200lbs.

Maybe it's because more people, in general, do a Yates-like row because of the comfort factor. I bet if most of the large people you see do that type of row, then most of the smaller people you see do the same kind of row. I highly doubt that every person you see with a well developed back do Yates rows while everyone with a less developed back does a standard bent row.

gr81 · 09-30-2004, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Than why do all the big boys steroids or not who use this form for barbell rows have big, wide thick backs? Even non steroid users develop really big backs from this form.

there are so many flaws with your logic, if thats what you wanna call it, I don't even know where to start. Thats like sayin, hey I saw a few big guys eating their doodie and their big, so I better start eating my doodie.. Like I said, its simple physics, it doesn't matter who does what, look at the two movements and the planes they are traveling on, one will be more of a lat involving movement, and one will not. I am not arguing whether one is right or wrong, but it say that all big guys do it one way an dtherefore they are huge as a result, where as all the small guys do it another and therefore thats why they are small, there really is no cause and effect in there. its simple physics man

Duncans Donuts · 09-30-2004, 03:23 PM

Gr81, how do you think weighted pullups compare to bent rows in terms of lat recruitment?

gr81 · 09-30-2004, 03:27 PM

btw the trends in weight lifting in general are not always subject to observational cause and effect, like Johnnny is doing. it would not be accurate to just look and someone and what they are doing at that exact moment and assume or jump to conclusions as such. Well that big guy over there isn't working very hard, but he's big, so if I don't work very hard then I will get that big.. its too simplistic. You shoudl really think about taking some sort of intro to logic and reasoning class johnnny, all jokes aside. I think you would benefit from it man.

gr81 · 09-30-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Gr81, how do you think weighted pullups compare to bent rows in terms of lat recruitment?

two different planes you are working on, and you are prob gonna be able to use more weight on the rows, but I think they are both great movements. Pullups are so key IMO to overall lat development and they are so versatile with all the different grips you can use. I am not sure what you mean by how do they compare, I like both movements and think for a BB both need to be instilled in a training program at some time or another. If I had to pick one that is maybe better for recruitment I would go pullups personally.. what do you think

Duncans Donuts · 09-30-2004, 03:36 PM

I'm not sure what I think bro. I used to do bent rows but there are so many different forms that I was honestly confused on how to best do them. I switched to weighted pullups (again I do 1-2 exercises per body part) and have been progressing really well - wasn't sure if I should try the bent rows again or keep doing these or maybe combine them both.

What position do you like best for bent rows?

madden player · 09-30-2004, 03:51 PM

I like a more upright stance when doing barbell and one arm rows. I find I get a better stretch in my lats at the bottum and a more intense contraction in my lats at the top, plus it just feels more comfortable and lower back friendly to me.

IMO you have to have a slightly upright stance and use a little bit of movement to create some momentum when doing 'heavy' barbell rows..I just can't do heavy barbell rows any other way, the weight gets stuck at the bottum of the movement.

Saturday Fever · 09-30-2004, 03:51 PM

You should do both. They will complement each other greatly. If you do one, then another, you'll get the "DB vs BB Bench" problem.

For example, the guy who always does BB bench and tries to do DB Press and can't move any weight. Then there's the guy who does well on DB press but can't bench a BB very well. If they could find a balance, they would complement each other and both would get stronger.

If I worded that right.

Robboe · 09-30-2004, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

The_Chicken_Daddy
How would you describe this grip?

supsinated = underhand grip.
pronated = overhand grip.

gr81 · 09-30-2004, 04:29 PM

Quote:

What position do you like best for bent rows?

I like a more parellell to the floor with my lowerback arched and shoulders tight position, kindof like SNF was saying. I feel it hits my back my better than an upright positions, where I feel like I am cheating to use more weight. I try to keep it a lat movement personally.

Duncans Donuts · 09-30-2004, 04:31 PM

Underhand grip is the better choice, I'd presume.

09-29-2004, 05:49 PM	#1
Johnnny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,844	regarding barbell rows, always see 2 forms done by different body types I always see the big huge probably enhanced body builders at my gym & the 2 nationally ranked power lifters one of them being the 2003 World's Strongest man that we see on tv always doing their barbell rows for their lats at an almost upright position with just a slight bend & arch in the back & knees somewhat bent. Then I see ppl usually much smaller doing their barbell rows completely bent over, back arched, & knees bent bringing the weight up. I do both forms as I change it every few weeks. But it seems to me from what I've seen that the big guys always use the first barbell row form I mentioned above, even in Dorian yates's Blood n' Gut's video which I have he does his rows in this manner. What do you think is best? I think both forms work best for a certain amount of weeks at a time.

09-29-2004, 06:17 PM	#2
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	Continue doing them both. The bent row with a more upright posture has been coined a Yates row. I usually do Yates rows because it allows me to throw around bigger weights, but that is just personal preference.
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09-29-2004, 07:05 PM	#4
solid10 Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 356 Photos: 1	The first form seems more comfortable for me.
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09-29-2004, 10:24 PM	#9
Mortality Psycho_Boy Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 60	the first method works your upper/middle back and traps more instead of your lats and it has a smaller ROM(thus allowing you to use more weight), if you do it completely upright then it's basically a barbell shrug. if you use a shit loads of weight then it's really hard to completely bend over because of the amount pressure on your lower back. did you also notice that the people who use the first method also tend to lift more weight??
Mortality Psycho_Boy Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 60	http://home.bigblue.net.au/ykwa876/ga54.jpg "What the fuck are YOU looking at?!"

09-30-2004, 02:49 PM	#15
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	I do mine much differently I think. I use my bench width grip, arch the hell out of my back, pull back my shoulders and basically do my bench motion in reverse, pulling the bar to my sternum/stomach and letting it descend higher up like a bench lockout placement. If that makes any sense.
	yay.

09-29-2004, 07:56 PM	#5
soxmuscle do work son Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: I will eat your face Posts: 8,547 Photos: 10	I do the first style you mentioned, and when I used to do it the other way, guys at my gym would always be telling to stand more upwards. It's stuck, although I dont think either way is "better" than the other.

09-30-2004, 03:23 PM	#18
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	Gr81, how do you think weighted pullups compare to bent rows in terms of lat recruitment?
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09-30-2004, 03:27 PM	#19
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	btw the trends in weight lifting in general are not always subject to observational cause and effect, like Johnnny is doing. it would not be accurate to just look and someone and what they are doing at that exact moment and assume or jump to conclusions as such. Well that big guy over there isn't working very hard, but he's big, so if I don't work very hard then I will get that big.. its too simplistic. You shoudl really think about taking some sort of intro to logic and reasoning class johnnny, all jokes aside. I think you would benefit from it man.
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09-30-2004, 03:36 PM	#21
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	I'm not sure what I think bro. I used to do bent rows but there are so many different forms that I was honestly confused on how to best do them. I switched to weighted pullups (again I do 1-2 exercises per body part) and have been progressing really well - wasn't sure if I should try the bent rows again or keep doing these or maybe combine them both. What position do you like best for bent rows?
	"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

09-30-2004, 03:51 PM	#22
madden player I am Canadian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 707	I like a more upright stance when doing barbell and one arm rows. I find I get a better stretch in my lats at the bottum and a more intense contraction in my lats at the top, plus it just feels more comfortable and lower back friendly to me. IMO you have to have a slightly upright stance and use a little bit of movement to create some momentum when doing 'heavy' barbell rows..I just can't do heavy barbell rows any other way, the weight gets stuck at the bottum of the movement.
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09-30-2004, 04:31 PM	#26
Duncans Donuts Stay puffed, baby. Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: CA Posts: 2,774 Photos: 2	Underhand grip is the better choice, I'd presume.