Extremely High-Volume Training, Shy of Failure?

Saturday Fever · 10-05-2004, 11:41 PM

gopro, don't take this as a challenge, but as a question from someone who doesn't know. If failure and beyond is valuable, why does your routine not call for it? Or call for it more?

Keep in mind, I like your routine and I'm not being a dick. I'm just asking.

M.J.H. · 10-06-2004, 09:37 AM

Great question SF, and I am not being a jerk either, just curious.

Another thing I wanted to ask is what is your opinion on dropping direct arm training? And letting my arms get hit indirectly with back and shoulder/chest day?

**gopro** · 10-06-2004, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

gopro, don't take this as a challenge, but as a question from someone who doesn't know. If failure and beyond is valuable, why does your routine not call for it? Or call for it more?

Keep in mind, I like your routine and I'm not being a dick. I'm just asking.

Not taking it as a challenge or negatively in any way.

Actually, the routine calls for it on EVERY WORKING SET. The guidelines as far as reps go mean that I want you to choose a weight that causes you to reach momentary muscular failure WITHIN that range. If I call for 7-9 reps, I want you to fail at rep 7, 8, or 9. If you fail before or after this, adjustments need to be made.

As for going BEYOND failure, this is something I also advocate, but only to very advanced pupils...although SHOCK WEEK is all about beyond failure training.

So, you really just misunderstood my program a little. Also, I should mention that what you see here at IM are mostly the BASIC parameters of the program. When working with people one on one, it becomes much more specialized to that person.

**gopro** · 10-06-2004, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonStar

Great question SF, and I am not being a jerk either, just curious.

Another thing I wanted to ask is what is your opinion on dropping direct arm training? And letting my arms get hit indirectly with back and shoulder/chest day?

And I know you did not ask me this question, but I just wanted to mention that I have been training arms about once per month of late and have suffered zero size loss in them.

Twin Peak · 10-06-2004, 10:15 AM

I tend to agree with Eric on this. If you were forced to pick one "method" of training, to failure, and beyond, is the optimal method for growth for the majority of drug-free trainees.

The problem is, most trainees who say they are training to failure, are not.

Despite this, a cyclical approach to training is best.

Saturday Fever · 10-06-2004, 10:33 AM

I had no idea there was failing involved. Thanks for the answer.

And I don't do any direct arms work unless I get bored (rarely). So I wouldn't sweat it.

**gopro** · 10-06-2004, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

I had no idea there was failing involved. Thanks for the answer.

And I don't do any direct arms work unless I get bored (rarely). So I wouldn't sweat it.

No problem.

chris mason · 10-06-2004, 08:02 PM

Mike, to answer your question, I think training 2-3 reps short of failure with as much volume as you can as often as you can is best.

For myself, I still prefer very low overall volume and training with low reps for the most part.

spiderman83 · 10-06-2004, 08:14 PM

when powerlifting i know that u only spend so much amount of time in the gym like 35-40 minutes but i was wondering in certain exercises i feel that im not working every muscle enough..my question is when doing this would i overtrain by going work out the bench deadlift and calfs and then going back later during the day to hit my back and lats? just wondering.

M.J.H. · 10-06-2004, 08:33 PM

Quote:

And I know you did not ask me this question, but I just wanted to mention that I have been training arms about once per month of late and have suffered zero size loss in them.

Thanks Eric and that's certainly interesting. I am going to cut back on my arm training frequency for a while and see what happens. Hopefully everything will work out nicely---I doubt I'll lose any arm size honestly. We'll see what happens.

Quote:

Mike, to answer your question, I think training 2-3 reps short of failure with as much volume as you can as often as you can is best.

For myself, I still prefer very low overall volume and training with low reps for the most part.

I go to failure honestly on some exercises and not on others, it's actually weird. On most pressing exercises I generally go to positive muscular failure, almost always. DB presses especially. However, on rowing exercises, and things like that, I tend to go shy of failure for whatever reason. I guess because with bentover rows for example you don't really fail necessarily, your form just slips, etc.

Saturday Fever · 10-06-2004, 09:08 PM

Variety is the key. Fail sometimes, don't fail sometimes.

And no, I can't get any more vague than that.

str8flexed · 08-04-2005, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

There are things people can do, and there are things people can do on steroids.

If I have interpreted this correctly then you believe it is working for me because I am on steroids?

I'm sorry to dissapoint you but I certainly am not. And if I was, I'd be pretty freaking dissapointed lol. But I have learned through the years that people will believe what they want to believe and no amount of kicking or screaming on my part will change that, so thanks for the indirect compliment. If you think I'm on steroids then you must somehow think my physique is unattainable naturally, when in all reality there are many natural bodybuilders out there who would whoop my butt onstage.

-Layne

TJ Cline · 08-04-2005, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by str8flexed

If I have interpreted this correctly then you believe it is working for me because I am on steroids?

I'm sorry to dissapoint you but I certainly am not. And if I was, I'd be pretty freaking dissapointed lol. But I have learned through the years that people will believe what they want to believe and no amount of kicking or screaming on my part will change that, so thanks for the indirect compliment. If you think I'm on steroids then you must somehow think my physique is unattainable naturally, when in all reality there are many natural bodybuilders out there who would whoop my butt onstage.

-Layne

Where can I find the journal they are talking about???

Triple Threat · 08-04-2005, 07:14 PM

Check out Avant Labs:

http://www.avantlabs.com/main.php Forum -> Training Log

TJ Cline · 08-04-2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V Player

Absolutely.

Layne (str8flexed) also writes at my other board and he is definately the real deal. If he really is all natural, I salute him. Hell even if he's not natural Id still salute. But yeah he is going super high volume. Me myself Im going with 100 reps total sets for this cycle. People think Im crazy, but like P-Funk just said: whatever works.

He looks natural to me.

**P-funk** · 08-04-2005, 08:08 PM

Damn, this thread was bumped from a long time ago!

10-05-2004, 11:41 PM	#31
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	gopro, don't take this as a challenge, but as a question from someone who doesn't know. If failure and beyond is valuable, why does your routine not call for it? Or call for it more? Keep in mind, I like your routine and I'm not being a dick. I'm just asking.
	yay.

10-06-2004, 09:37 AM	#32
M.J.H. Obsessed Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Delaware Posts: 3,587 Photos: 12	Great question SF, and I am not being a jerk either, just curious. Another thing I wanted to ask is what is your opinion on dropping direct arm training? And letting my arms get hit indirectly with back and shoulder/chest day?
	Stats! 23 years old, 5'11.5", 206 lbs., ~8% bodyfat 380/455/655 bench/squat/deadlift (current) 405/495/675 bench/squat/deadlift (goals) The M.J.H. Chronicles

10-06-2004, 10:15 AM	#35
Twin Peak Peak Physiques™ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NY Posts: 7,870	I tend to agree with Eric on this. If you were forced to pick one "method" of training, to failure, and beyond, is the optimal method for growth for the majority of drug-free trainees. The problem is, most trainees who say they are training to failure, are not. Despite this, a cyclical approach to training is best.
	www.DesignerSupps.com INTELLIGENT DESIGN™...lands on 1/1/2007 www.intelligentdesignmag.com

10-06-2004, 10:33 AM	#36
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	I had no idea there was failing involved. Thanks for the answer. And I don't do any direct arms work unless I get bored (rarely). So I wouldn't sweat it.
	yay.

10-06-2004, 09:08 PM	#41
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Variety is the key. Fail sometimes, don't fail sometimes. And no, I can't get any more vague than that.
	yay.

10-06-2004, 08:02 PM	#38
chris mason Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 407	Mike, to answer your question, I think training 2-3 reps short of failure with as much volume as you can as often as you can is best. For myself, I still prefer very low overall volume and training with low reps for the most part.

10-06-2004, 08:14 PM	#39
spiderman83 THE RAGE Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Louisiana Posts: 12	when powerlifting i know that u only spend so much amount of time in the gym like 35-40 minutes but i was wondering in certain exercises i feel that im not working every muscle enough..my question is when doing this would i overtrain by going work out the bench deadlift and calfs and then going back later during the day to hit my back and lats? just wondering.

08-04-2005, 07:14 PM	#44
Triple Threat ... Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Lost Posts: 9,490 Photos: 6	Check out Avant Labs: http://www.avantlabs.com/main.php Forum -> Training Log

08-04-2005, 08:08 PM	#46
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 30,631	Damn, this thread was bumped from a long time ago!
	http://pwtraining.blogspot.com/.....come and see what is on my mind! Ivonne's Blog on Health and Wellness! Looking for online training/coaching/consulting? --> Optimum Sports Performance "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Lose Bodyfat but gain mass?	Jason Da Bodiful	Training	25	01-10-2006 07:16 PM
Here is a good writing that some of you might enjoy!	Prince	Training	17	10-10-2005 01:49 PM
7 Common Training Mistakes	ballast	Training	19	10-09-2004 07:08 PM
protein needs	Michelle	Diet & Nutrition	21	06-09-2004 08:46 PM
Bodytype Workout	THE_GAME	Training	6	10-30-2001 06:28 PM