Thread: pyrimiding

I think it can be effective if used properly. however I think many people waste to much energy on working up to the heavy work loads which cause adaptation...

That's not a pyramid. A pyramid is when you go up in weight then back down in weight!
That looks like HST.

I do a pyramid. e.g. BP = 12, 10, 8 , 6, 12 with DB's 55x2,60x2,65x2,70x2,60x2 and it works for me.

you do 2 reps with db's ?

Originally Posted by LAM

you do 2 reps with db's ?

I think the x2 is indicating that the weight listed is per dumbell.

I don't think there is anything especially effective about a pyramid. I believe you should always start with your heaviest weights and work down. Granted, you need to warmup and acclimate the weight gradually, but there is no need to fatigue your muscles before hitting a double.

Originally Posted by LAM

you do 2 reps with db's ?

no no no... e.g. BP 12reps with 55x2db=110lbs

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I don't think there is anything especially effective about a pyramid. I believe you should always start with your heaviest weights and work down. Granted, you need to warmup and acclimate the weight gradually, but there is no need to fatigue your muscles before hitting a double.

I find that fatiguing the muscle this way helps in the last set where a lower weight gets me an intense workout in addition, it is easier to handle the lower weight to do the set with proper form. I should add, that only the last set is done to failure, the previous ones are not.

Originally Posted by gareth

My trainer is recommending I do a pyramiding system of lifting -- does pyrimiding work well for muscle growth?

(e.g BP 5 sets of 12 10 8 6 4 reps)

The theory is that your muscles will use different fibers depending on the stress levels caused by the wieght. Changing up difficulty is supposed to activate more fibers and give you a more intense workout.

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

I find that fatiguing the muscle this way helps in the last set where a lower weight gets me an intense workout in addition, it is easier to handle the lower weight to do the set with proper form. I should add, that only the last set is done to failure, the previous ones are not.

Fair enough. However, I don't think it should be used consistently as part of a training routine.

Originally Posted by SlimShady

The theory is that your muscles will use different fibers depending on the stress levels caused by the wieght. Changing up difficulty is supposed to activate more fibers and give you a more intense workout.

Actually, the only way you can alter the recruitment of motor units, and therefore the recruitment of muscle fibers, is to do a different movement. The central nervous system "chooses" which motor units to use based on the movement.

Now, of the different "levels" or "speeds" of fibers, more will be activated when you are using heavier weights. Therefore, doing a lower weight does not result in different fibers being used from the heaviest weight. All the muscle fibers used with the lower weight are used to lift the higher weight, but the higher weight also recruits additional, faster twitch muscles fibers to do the job.

I bow down to the cow of knowledge.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Fair enough. However, I don't think it should be used consistently as part of a training routine.

you dont?
*dare i admit it?... ok here goes*
This routine is from 'Body For Life - Bill Phillips' (dont nobody flame me, pls ). I did it for over a year (on and off) before i discovered this site. The routine gave me a good overall physique, but not much in mass. The fault was mine as i didnt pay adequate/careful attention to my diet as i do now. I still do this routine as i am now very accustomed to it.

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Now, of the different "levels" or "speeds" of fibers, more will be activated when you are using heavier weights. Therefore, doing a lower weight does not result in different fibers being used from the heaviest weight. All the muscle fibers used with the lower weight are used to lift the higher weight, but the higher weight also recruits additional, faster twitch muscles fibers to do the job.

I'd read where using these different methods - 21's, Pyramids, Stepdowns, etc - they were effective because they bring more muscle fiber into play.

For example:
Say you do curls with a 50lbs db and you do 3 sets of 8 reps before failure. You grab onto a 25lb db and do 12 more reps before reaching failure again... the articles claim that the body uses additional fibers in the same muscle to accomplish those additional, low weight, reps. Supposedly you get a more complete workout because of this.

I'm no doctor or rocket scientist, so I don't know if that's really true. All I know is, it does provide a pretty tiring workout.

Slow twitch fibers recover faster, so when you significantly alter the weight (lower it by double) there will be more of those available to handle the weight.

Originally Posted by SlimShady

I'd read where using these different methods - 21's, Pyramids, Stepdowns, etc - they were effective because they bring more muscle fiber into play.

For example:
Say you do curls with a 50lbs db and you do 3 sets of 8 reps before failure. You grab onto a 25lb db and do 12 more reps before reaching failure again... the articles claim that the body uses additional fibers in the same muscle to accomplish those additional, low weight, reps. Supposedly you get a more complete workout because of this.

I'm no doctor or rocket scientist, so I don't know if that's really true. All I know is, it does provide a pretty tiring workout.

All you are doing is building up lactic acid and getting a good pump.

Originally Posted by SlimShady

I'd read where using these different methods - 21's, Pyramids, Stepdowns, etc - they were effective because they bring more muscle fiber into play.

For example:
Say you do curls with a 50lbs db and you do 3 sets of 8 reps before failure. You grab onto a 25lb db and do 12 more reps before reaching failure again... the articles claim that the body uses additional fibers in the same muscle to accomplish those additional, low weight, reps. Supposedly you get a more complete workout because of this.

I'm no doctor or rocket scientist, so I don't know if that's really true. All I know is, it does provide a pretty tiring workout.

More muscle fibers are not being brought into play. All you are doing is fatiguing the same fibers even more. This can be a good thing, but you cannot do it consistently. Fatigue is cumulative. If you don't allow for proper recovery, then strength improvements are not going to be optimal.

I would much rather begin by warming up and hitting the heaviest weights first so as to include as many different muscle fibers as possible, not just needlessly exhaust the same ones. Now, as I said, this type of training can be used sometimes, but not every workout.

Originally Posted by BulkMeUp

you dont?
*dare i admit it?... ok here goes*
This routine is from 'Body For Life - Bill Phillips' (dont nobody flame me, pls ). I did it for over a year (on and off) before i discovered this site. The routine gave me a good overall physique, but not much in mass. The fault was mine as i didnt pay adequate/careful attention to my diet as i do now. I still do this routine as i am now very accustomed to it.

Everyone makes good gains when they first start. That is a fact of resistance training. I gained mass doing pyramids too, when they told me to in High School at age 14. Now, upon returning to weight training, I made faster gains by doing a more standard routine (Although it was full body).

Originally Posted by dg806

That's not a pyramid. A pyramid is when you go up in weight then back down in weight!
That looks like HST.

Is it?

I was always under the impression the "pyramid" has reps for the x-axis and weight for the y-axis.

Meaning you started off with a low(er) weight and did more reps (thus, the bottom of the pyramid has a wide base) and then moved the weight up and the reps down with each set (thus, the "pinnacle" of the pyramid forms).

Ah well, who cares. But this is the method i use for warming up, with no sets taken remotely near failure but the weight getting progressively heavier and the reps lower. My last warm up set is almost always a CNS acclimatising set which is about 50lb less than my work set weight, which i do for 2 reps. Then rest before hitting my work sets.