bench pressing

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeanie

Whatever you say

Where are we going now?

You pick the place.

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

I don't think your observations supercede science. However, you can believe whatever you want.

Well, they must b/c you believe that scientifically that you can't selectively work the upper chest or cause semi-isolated growth in the upper chest...and since I KNOW you CAN, this therefore must supercede whatever "science" you believe in...although I am sure that there is a scientific explanation for this (even better than EMG recordings) that will explain it one day.

Sometimes reality occurs first and THEN science catches up later and explains why.

**CowPimp** · 10-26-2004, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

Well, they must b/c you believe that scientifically that you can't selectively work the upper chest or cause semi-isolated growth in the upper chest...and since I KNOW you CAN, this therefore must supercede whatever "science" you believe in...although I am sure that there is a scientific explanation for this (even better than EMG recordings) that will explain it one day.

Sometimes reality occurs first and THEN science catches up later and explains why.

As I said, believe what you want. Just leave it at what I said following that sentence: use inclines in your routine and call it a day; upper chest isolation or not.

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

As I said, believe what you want. Just leave it at what I said following that sentence: use inclines in your routine and call it a day; upper chest isolation or not.

I WILL believe what I know to be true, and thus I WILL include plenty of incline work into my routine for the simple reason that it does cause hypertrophy in the upper pec region far more effectively than flat presses do.

And you believe what you want too.

Johnnny · 10-26-2004, 11:46 AM

Gopro

Quote:

WILL believe what I know to be true, and thus I WILL include plenty
of incline work into my routine for the simple reason that it does cause
hypertrophy in the upper pec region far more effectively than flat
presses do.

And you believe what you want too.

Here, here

DOMS · 10-26-2004, 01:27 PM

Here's a simple question:

Why do I feel lactic acid burn and muscle fatique in the upper area of my pecs, but not the lower area when I do inclines? If the whole muscle was getting worked out equally, why don't I feel the lactice burn and muscle fatique in the lower area as well?

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfs3

Here's a simple question:

Why do I feel lactic acid burn and muscle fatique in the upper area of my pecs, but not the lower area when I do inclines? If the whole muscle was getting worked out equally, why don't I feel the lactice burn and muscle fatique in the lower area as well?

Because inclines are affecting the fibers in the upper chest more strongly...thats my answer.

The answers of the other camp with say either:

-its the anterior delts you are feeling
-its psychosomatic
-it doesn't matter as this will not affect more growth in the upper pecs

Or something to that effect...

Saturday Fever · 10-26-2004, 02:02 PM

Tear your skin off and check out your anterior delt's origin. That should answer your question.

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 02:23 PM

The anterior deltoid originates on the lateral third of the clavicle. It does not come across the pecs and the feeling of a pump, soreness, or burn in the upper pec region is totally different than a front delt pump, soreness, or burn. The only way this argument would hold is if the anterior delt originated from the sternum or complete inside of the clavicle.

Saturday Fever · 10-26-2004, 02:26 PM

So you're claiming that everyone in the world, genetically, does not have an origin point further in on the clavicle?

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

So you're claiming that everyone in the world, genetically, does not have an origin point further in on the clavicle?

Ok, some might have it over slightly further, but this does not account for soreness that goes right to the sternum or hypertrophy across the entire upper chest.

Johnnny · 10-26-2004, 02:39 PM

cfs3

Quote:

Why do I feel lactic acid burn and muscle fatique in the upper are of
my pecs, but not the lower area when I do inclines? If the whole muscle
was getting worked out equally, why don't I feel the lactice burn and
muscle fatique in the lower area as well?

I'm sure someone other than Gopro will have an intelligent explaination

Gopro

Quote:

Because inclines are affecting the fibers in the upper chest more strongly...thats my answer.

The answers of the other camp with say either:

-its the anterior delts you are feeling
-its psychosomatic
-it doesn't matter as this will not affect more growth in the upper pecs

Or something to that effect...

I think you've hit it right on Gop

Saturday Fever · 10-26-2004, 02:41 PM

Sternum? The "upper chest" doesn't attach to the sternum. If there is soreness at the sternum, that would indicate the pec as a whole is being worked, no?

And what does this really have to do with what you said 2 posts ago that I responded to with my question about the origin of the anterior delt? You're changing topics.

Saturday Fever · 10-26-2004, 02:42 PM

Johnnny talking about intelligence. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

Sternum? The "upper chest" doesn't attach to the sternum. If there is soreness at the sternum, that would indicate the pec as a whole is being worked, no?

And what does this really have to do with what you said 2 posts ago that I responded to with my question about the origin of the anterior delt? You're changing topics.

The upper pec originates at the medial portion of the clavicle and covers the entire portion of the upper pec area, from armpit area and across. This entire region is where an incline press is "felt." This is MUCH different from where a front raise is felt, for example.

The above answers your question about your post (2 posts ago)...I was saying that YOUR answer had no bearing on the question that cfs3 asked.

Saturday Fever · 10-26-2004, 04:22 PM

The clavicular head inserts in the same exact point the sternal head inserts. It runs right alongside the sternal head. The only difference between the two is the clavicle and sternum. As such, the muscle bellies are shortened anytime the shoulders rotate forward/in because the insertion point of both heads rotates forward/in as well.

However, the anterior delt can insert anywhere on the clavicle that it wants (more or less) based on your genetic makeup. However, due to the plane an incline works through, it is recruited to a great degree during an incline press.

That being said, and already knowing your response will be based on your opinion, how is it possible that your theory is true and my theory isn't? Logically, and physically, how can that be possible?

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

The clavicular head inserts in the same exact point the sternal head inserts. It runs right alongside the sternal head. The only difference between the two is the clavicle and sternum. As such, the muscle bellies are shortened anytime the shoulders rotate forward/in because the insertion point of both heads rotates forward/in as well.

However, the anterior delt can insert anywhere on the clavicle that it wants (more or less) based on your genetic makeup. However, due to the plane an incline works through, it is recruited to a great degree during an incline press.

That being said, and already knowing your response will be based on your opinion, how is it possible that your theory is true and my theory isn't? Logically, and physically, how can that be possible?

I must answer this simply...its obvious that the anterior delt works hard during an incline press. And you can even build decent front delts with only incline press. However, your contention that it is the anterior deltoid that is growing and making it "look" as if the upper chest is growing might be true for a few, whose front delt inserts further along the clavicle, but this is the minority. You simply cannot generalize this to everyone and use this as the reason all people grow larger upper chests from doing inclines.

Saturday Fever · 10-26-2004, 04:44 PM

ALL people do not grow larger "upper chests" from doing inclines. In fact, MANY people do not ever develop the appearance of an upper chest. Are they just slackers or is there perhaps a genetic difference?

BigDyl · 10-26-2004, 09:53 PM

I was wondering if someone could further explain the HIIT training method. When you refer to "intensity" do you mean quick rest periods, heavy weights, forced reps, and or negatives? I'm assuming its a combination of those training methods. I did some research on HIIT cardio, and what i got from it was fast tempo, slow tempo, fast tempo, etc. Is this the same with HIIT weight training?

DOMS · 10-26-2004, 10:57 PM

I know what my anterior delts are. I know what they feel like when I work them as a targeted muscle. I also pretty sure that my anterior delts don't run the length of the my upper chest, which is where I feel the sensation mentioned previously.

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

ALL people do not grow larger "upper chests" from doing inclines. In fact, MANY people do not ever develop the appearance of an upper chest. Are they just slackers or is there perhaps a genetic difference?

Ok, I cannot argue this with you any longer SF. You THINK you know it all and there is nothing I could do about it. I will say this...every client I have ever trained has absolutely changed the look of there chest after I reworked their routine to use various incline angles. The upper chest always takes on a fuller appearance and is thicker from top to bottom. I teach my clients how to press properly and they can not only feel the burn and pump isolated to the upper pec area during the incline press, but the soreness is isolated to that area when DOMS sets in. And I haven't trained a dozen people, but hundreds upon hundreds. I don't waste time with exercises or methods that don't work or I wouldn't get paid what I do...nor would I want anyone to not achieve their goals. Inclines emphasize hypertrophy in the upper pecs...period. Its not the anterior delts, its the pecs. Yes, some anterior delt growth occurs, but it is clearly defined from the upper chest.

I'm done with this.

**CowPimp** · 10-26-2004, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

I'm done with this.

Somehow I doubt this.

**gopro** · 10-26-2004, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

Somehow I doubt this.

You are probably right, but it was fun to say...kind of like slamming the door behind you after saying, "GOODBYE!" after a big argument.

**CowPimp** · 10-26-2004, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

You are probably right, but it was fun to say...kind of like slamming the door behind you after saying, "GOODBYE!" after a big argument.

Hehe, yeah. I don't think it's actually good to give up debating on a topic like this. A lot of good information has resulted from this conversation. Granted, a lot of useless banter has been elicited as well, but that doesn't detract from the valuable knowledge adjacent to it.

Saturday Fever · 10-27-2004, 12:08 AM

Unlike some people on this board, I've admitted before (and have no problem admitting now) when I'm wrong. Or even that I simply don't know. But when someone says something and all they can back it up with is "I've seen it!" that doesn't sit right. Especially when I present a theory based on appearances and the response is, "That's not right."

Well if all you can justify it with is what you've seen, isn't that an appearance? Isn't that exactly what I'm saying?

10-26-2004, 01:27 PM	#306
DOMS Metrosexual Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In a van, down by the river... Posts: 21,725 Photos: 6	Here's a simple question: Why do I feel lactic acid burn and muscle fatique in the upper area of my pecs, but not the lower area when I do inclines? If the whole muscle was getting worked out equally, why don't I feel the lactice burn and muscle fatique in the lower area as well?
	I never lie because I don't fear anyone. You only lie when you're afraid.—John Gotti

10-26-2004, 02:02 PM	#308
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Tear your skin off and check out your anterior delt's origin. That should answer your question.
	yay.

10-26-2004, 02:23 PM	#309
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,523	The anterior deltoid originates on the lateral third of the clavicle. It does not come across the pecs and the feeling of a pump, soreness, or burn in the upper pec region is totally different than a front delt pump, soreness, or burn. The only way this argument would hold is if the anterior delt originated from the sternum or complete inside of the clavicle.
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

10-26-2004, 02:26 PM	#310
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	So you're claiming that everyone in the world, genetically, does not have an origin point further in on the clavicle?
	yay.

10-26-2004, 02:41 PM	#313
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Sternum? The "upper chest" doesn't attach to the sternum. If there is soreness at the sternum, that would indicate the pec as a whole is being worked, no? And what does this really have to do with what you said 2 posts ago that I responded to with my question about the origin of the anterior delt? You're changing topics.
	yay.

10-26-2004, 02:42 PM	#314
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Johnnny talking about intelligence. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
	yay.

10-26-2004, 04:22 PM	#316
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	The clavicular head inserts in the same exact point the sternal head inserts. It runs right alongside the sternal head. The only difference between the two is the clavicle and sternum. As such, the muscle bellies are shortened anytime the shoulders rotate forward/in because the insertion point of both heads rotates forward/in as well. However, the anterior delt can insert anywhere on the clavicle that it wants (more or less) based on your genetic makeup. However, due to the plane an incline works through, it is recruited to a great degree during an incline press. That being said, and already knowing your response will be based on your opinion, how is it possible that your theory is true and my theory isn't? Logically, and physically, how can that be possible?
	yay.

10-26-2004, 04:44 PM	#318
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	ALL people do not grow larger "upper chests" from doing inclines. In fact, MANY people do not ever develop the appearance of an upper chest. Are they just slackers or is there perhaps a genetic difference?
	yay.

10-26-2004, 09:53 PM	#319
BigDyl Elite Kiki Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Securityland Posts: 15,736 Photos: 2	I was wondering if someone could further explain the HIIT training method. When you refer to "intensity" do you mean quick rest periods, heavy weights, forced reps, and or negatives? I'm assuming its a combination of those training methods. I did some research on HIIT cardio, and what i got from it was fast tempo, slow tempo, fast tempo, etc. Is this the same with HIIT weight training?

10-26-2004, 10:57 PM	#320
DOMS Metrosexual Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In a van, down by the river... Posts: 21,725 Photos: 6	I know what my anterior delts are. I know what they feel like when I work them as a targeted muscle. I also pretty sure that my anterior delts don't run the length of the my upper chest, which is where I feel the sensation mentioned previously.
	I never lie because I don't fear anyone. You only lie when you're afraid.—John Gotti

10-27-2004, 12:08 AM	#325
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Unlike some people on this board, I've admitted before (and have no problem admitting now) when I'm wrong. Or even that I simply don't know. But when someone says something and all they can back it up with is "I've seen it!" that doesn't sit right. Especially when I present a theory based on appearances and the response is, "That's not right." Well if all you can justify it with is what you've seen, isn't that an appearance? Isn't that exactly what I'm saying?