bench pressing

Johnnny · 10-21-2004, 09:13 AM

Uzi9

Quote:

But the worst thing is his insults to people who dont share his same opinion, and that is why I am typing this post.

I haven't insulted anyone only truth be stated.

Rocco32 · 10-21-2004, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

Uzi9

I haven't insulted anyone only truth be stated.

Your not a good one to be dealing in "Truth" Johnnny. Just not part of the world you live in.

Johnnny · 10-21-2004, 10:31 AM

Ladies & gentlemen, here is a quote from a conversation I had with the knowledgeable Gopro:

Quote:

as far as the upper chest thing, yes I believe you need various angles to develop the chest fully...i do not believe that just by performing flat presses you will fully develop the upper chest

I believe Gopro over you guys any day. He knows what he is talking about.

bulletproof1 · 10-21-2004, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

Ladies & gentlemen, here is a quote from a conversation I had with the knowledgeable Gopro:

I believe Gopro over you guys any day. He knows what he is talking about.

johnnny you waste more space around here than anyone ive seen.
no one doubts gopros intelligence but we do doubt yours. why cant you form your own opinions instead of piggybacking off of everyone else?

largepkg · 10-21-2004, 10:48 AM

Johnnny, is it possible for you to have an original thought?

Do you need to check with Gopro to know when the best time to take a dump is?

No disrespect to Gopro intended.

Rocco32 · 10-21-2004, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletproof1

johnnny you waste more space around here than anyone ive seen.
no one doubts gopros intelligence but we do doubt yours. why cant you form your own opinions instead of piggybacking off of everyone else?

Exactly!!

**CowPimp** · 10-21-2004, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

Incline presses whether it's incline bench, or DB flies are very, very important to do. There are a lot of ppl who just focus on incline presses along with some flat DB flies or dips & no flat bench.

I still would like to see some proof that incline presses are necessary for chest development besides your claims of some guys at your gym doing incline presses and having well developed chests. That is far from a scientific analysis, and is open to countless variables.

Quote:

All I have to say to you is stop doing incline presses for 6 weeks & see how strong your incline presses are.

This has very little to do with muscular strength. This is a function of the central nervous system. I already explained this, but you refuse to listen to general anatomy and physiology principles.

Quote:

So I guess Gopro is an idiot & doesn't know what he's talking about either eh?

Gopro strongly believes to entirely develop your pectorals, you have to hit them from ALL angles & GRIPS to make it grow & become stronger.

Why do you have to bring gopro into this? No one said he doesn't know what he's talking about. I also believe that different movements assist in the development of muscles. However, I believe this not because I think the movements cause localized hypertrophy, but because the central nervous system uses a different pool of muscle fibers depending on the movement applied. It has nothing to do with the physical location of the muscle relative to the plane of movement.

Either way, the incline press is not absolutely required to build a nice chest. There is no one movement for any muscle that is a must, period.

Quote:

I agree with him, so by calling me an idiot for believing that, than you're also calling him one as well.

No, two people can believe the same thing without them both being accurately described by the same adjectives. People call you an idiot because you try to backup your statements the same way every time: "The guys at my gym who do X activity have Y results. Therefore, I must be unequivocally correct." Gopro will backup his statements with personal training experience that is much more viable and useful.

Quote:

The upper portion of the chest is the hardest to develop & requires a lot of attention, incline bench or incline db presses, incline flies, flat bench & chest dips is a complete pectoral routine that will pack on size & strength.

Your entire chest will simply not grow by doing only flat bench presses. Even power lifters do incline presses & only a few sets of flat bench I see them at the gym several times a week & they have fully developed & strong/powerful pecs.

Again with the guys at your gym. Jesus. Why don't you try doing some reading and provide some useful information. Why is this the case? If you can present people with some factual information instead of vague anecdotes, then maybe they will listen.

**CowPimp** · 10-21-2004, 11:40 AM

Alex, the bottom line is that it is useful to use multiple movements for the same muscle. We are just debating the reasoning behind why it is so. Don't worry about the science behind it just yet.

Either way, I feel my training program is better suited for you. You don't need to be doing a ton of movements. You are a total beginner. You're going to get great results for the first several months of lifting no matter what you do. My routine focuses on the heavily compound movements that are going to provide you with a good base to branch out into other exercises with. A lot of stabilizer muscles (In particular your core) should be adequately activated enough so that later you can branch out and use a wider variety of movements. Start with the basics; get more advanced when you learn your strengths and weaknesses.

Johnnny · 10-21-2004, 11:54 AM

bulletproof1

Quote:

johnnny you waste more space around here than anyone ive seen.
no one doubts gopros intelligence but we do doubt yours. why cant you form your own opinions instead of piggybacking off of everyone else?

Now I've heard it all.

I'm piggybacking off of everyone else?

I've believed this about the chest since I was 17yrs old way before I knew Gopro & way before I was even on this forum.

CowPimp

Quote:

Why do you have to bring gopro into this?

Why?

B/c Gopro feels the same way I've felt regarding this issue for 9yrs that's why.
& ppl around here respect Gopro.

He believes the same as me that I've always believed.

Alex listen to what I quoted Gopro on, he is a professional trainer & has been training for years.

That's all I can say.

largepkg

Quote:

Johnnny, is it possible for you to have an original thought?

Do you need to check with Gopro to know when the best time to take a dump is?

No disrespect to Gopro intended.

Obviously I have to with ppl like this.

When I believe the same as Gopro regarding different issues & ppl don't believe me, I know they will believe Gopro.

Now that you have seen Gopro's opinion I'm being criticised for asking his opinions "which happen to be the same as mine" regarding this issue.

You guys just can't accept the fact that incline presses are very important for full pectoral development & strength increases.

I personally think that you guys don't want to accept it b/c it's one or 2 more exercises you'll have to do & maybe it's a case of being lazy at that point.

Alex listen to Gopro he knows what he is talking about, incline presses & incline work are just as important as flat bench presses & decline bench presses are.

As Gopro stated, "some ppl are just too smart for their own good"

& I highly support that.

**CowPimp** · 10-21-2004, 11:59 AM

I like how you avoided responding to the rest of my post and instead took one line out of context to write a response to. Good job.

**CowPimp** · 10-21-2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

I personally think that you guys don't want to accept it b/c it's one or 2 more exercises you'll have to do & maybe it's a case of being lazy at that point.

I already said that I DO INCLINE PRESSES. I just said that the reason I do them is not because I want to develop my "upper chest." Try listening to what I say. I will say it once more:

I feel that incline presses are useful for the development of the pectoralis major. It is useful because different muscle fibers are stimulated via the central nervous system depending on what movement you are doing. However, these fibers are not stimulated based on the location in the pectoral muscle

**gopro** · 10-21-2004, 12:04 PM

Who is this gopro fellow Jonnny keeps referring to?

Saturday Fever · 10-21-2004, 12:08 PM

Quote:

It is useful because different muscle fibers are stimulated via the central nervous system depending on what movement you are doing.

Whoa, what?

largepkg · 10-21-2004, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gopro

Who is this gopro fellow Jonnny keeps referring to?

I'm not to sure. Johnnny really seems to like him though.

Some advise for this gopro fella. Never turn your back on Johnnny we just aren't sure what he might do.

Saturday Fever · 10-21-2004, 12:13 PM

We know he isn't going to think for himself. So we aren't totally in the dark.

**CowPimp** · 10-21-2004, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturday Fever

Whoa, what?

From what I understand, the central nervous system decides what motor units, and therefore muscle fibers, to use based on a few things: the intensity of the lift, the duration of the lift, and the actual movement itself.

The intensity and duration go hand in hand. Slow muscle fibers are activated first. If the duration of the lift is short and the intensity as high, as in lifting a 1RM, then more fast twitch fibers will be included in addition to the slow twitch fibers. However, if you train your 1RM again tomorrow, the same pool of fibers are going to be used to complete the movement.

Now, a different pool of fibers will be used only if the movement is different. There are, of course, going to be many of the same fibers used, but different ones will be recruited in addition.

Is my understanding of this concept off base?

MaxMirkin · 10-21-2004, 12:18 PM

I want to help a fellow Russian out, but I am so not getting in the middle of this one.

Saturday Fever · 10-21-2004, 12:35 PM

Your understanding is not off base, but I think you're overlooking origin and insertion points. If a muscle, very generically, looks like this:

o------------i

And all fibers in the given muscle are the same way, you would not be able to recruit one set of fibers without the other. The effects lifting from different angles has on the CNS are very real. By changing the angle, the ROM, a stance you are giving your CNS a "fresh look" at the lift. But the muscles contract the same way, regardless of angle. The exception would be muscles with different origin and insertion points. The traps would be one example of that.

Johnnny · 10-21-2004, 02:05 PM

Gopro

Quote:

Who is this gopro fellow Jonnny keeps referring to?

Nice one

largepkg

Quote:

I'm not to sure. Johnnny really seems to like him though.

Some advise for this gopro fella. Never turn your back on Johnnny we just aren't sure what he might do.

& what exactly do you mean by that?

If you mean what I think you mean than you are dead wrong.

pmech · 10-21-2004, 02:11 PM

largepkg · 10-21-2004, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

Gopro

Nice one

largepkg

& what exactly do you mean by that?

If you mean what I think you mean than you are dead wrong.

Acceptance of your problem is the first step to a cure!

Johnnny · 10-21-2004, 02:21 PM

pmech

I think you're spending too much time in cheeseland.

Johnnny · 10-21-2004, 02:22 PM

largepkg

Quote:

Acceptance of your problem is the first step to a cure!

I have no problem accept for a couple of immature school childeren to deal with.

Anyway I'm going to continue making my pecs grow & get stronger by hitting them from all angles & grips.

Have fun with your 5 sets of bench press.

Saturday Fever · 10-21-2004, 02:24 PM

Hahahaha.

Oh man.

nikegurl · 10-21-2004, 02:24 PM

Is anyone else utterly amazed that Johnny hasn't been made mod in training forum yet?

largepkg · 10-21-2004, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

largepkg

I have no problem accept for a couple of immature school childeren to deal with.

Anyway I'm going to continue making my pecs grow & get stronger by hitting them from all angles & grips.

Have fun with your 5 sets of bench press.

Just for the record Dookie. I do 9 sets for my chest! They would include flat bench, incline DB, and some fly movement. So there

Johnnny · 10-21-2004, 02:32 PM

nikegurl

Quote:

Is anyone else utterly amazed that Johnny hasn't been ma

10-21-2004, 11:40 AM	#68
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	Alex, the bottom line is that it is useful to use multiple movements for the same muscle. We are just debating the reasoning behind why it is so. Don't worry about the science behind it just yet. Either way, I feel my training program is better suited for you. You don't need to be doing a ton of movements. You are a total beginner. You're going to get great results for the first several months of lifting no matter what you do. My routine focuses on the heavily compound movements that are going to provide you with a good base to branch out into other exercises with. A lot of stabilizer muscles (In particular your core) should be adequately activated enough so that later you can branch out and use a wider variety of movements. Start with the basics; get more advanced when you learn your strengths and weaknesses.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

10-21-2004, 11:59 AM	#70
CowPimp Fueled by Testosterone Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 15,428	I like how you avoided responding to the rest of my post and instead took one line out of context to write a response to. Good job.
	The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing... CowPimp Picks Up Heavy Shit MySpace YouTube Videos

10-21-2004, 12:04 PM	#72
gopro NGA/IFPA Pro Bodybuilder Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Florida Posts: 10,523	Who is this gopro fellow Jonnny keeps referring to?
	Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines. GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau! Personal Training Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching. Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

10-21-2004, 12:13 PM	#75
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	We know he isn't going to think for himself. So we aren't totally in the dark.
	yay.

10-21-2004, 12:18 PM	#77
MaxMirkin Cheerfully Offensive Join Date: May 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 3,696 Photos: 4	I want to help a fellow Russian out, but I am so not getting in the middle of this one.
	The lions sing and the hills take flight. The moon by day, and the sun by night. Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool. Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

10-21-2004, 10:48 AM	#65
largepkg Senior Fucknut Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: S FLA Posts: 3,140 Photos: 2	Johnnny, is it possible for you to have an original thought? Do you need to check with Gopro to know when the best time to take a dump is? No disrespect to Gopro intended.

10-21-2004, 12:35 PM	#78
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Your understanding is not off base, but I think you're overlooking origin and insertion points. If a muscle, very generically, looks like this: o------------i And all fibers in the given muscle are the same way, you would not be able to recruit one set of fibers without the other. The effects lifting from different angles has on the CNS are very real. By changing the angle, the ROM, a stance you are giving your CNS a "fresh look" at the lift. But the muscles contract the same way, regardless of angle. The exception would be muscles with different origin and insertion points. The traps would be one example of that.
	yay.

10-21-2004, 02:11 PM	#80
pmech Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Cheeseland Posts: 574 Photos: 1

10-21-2004, 02:21 PM	#82
Johnnny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,844	pmech I think you're spending too much time in cheeseland.

10-21-2004, 02:24 PM	#84
Saturday Fever Pimp Gimp Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: California Posts: 2,142 Photos: 4	Hahahaha. Oh man.
	yay.

10-21-2004, 02:24 PM	#85
nikegurl Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: LA, CA Posts: 5,635	Is anyone else utterly amazed that Johnny hasn't been made mod in training forum yet?
	If you want to achieve things that others can't... You have to do things that others won't.