pmech

Johnnny

largepkg

If you're doing incline presses than why are you even arguing with me? Just for the sake of arguing? That's a big waste of time.

But your chest routine is similar to mine except I do 12 sets total, 4 exercises 3 sets each.

3 sets of flat or decline bench
3 sets of incline bench
3 sets of some various form of db incline flies
3 sets of either dips or cable cross overs or flat db flies

My chest routine only takes 30mins & my biceps after that only take 15-20mins so I'm not training more than 1hr.

Saturday Fever

I don't agree. And I could go through and prove to you, AGAIN, that what you're saying is simply an appearance brought about by other mechanisms. And you would tell me about some guy at your gym who's been working out for 20 years or provide some other wholly unrelated backing for your false belief. The big difference is that I can prove what I'm saying, you can't.

yay.

Johnnny

nikegurl

So what you're saying is that Gopro is also giving bad training advice also. Hmmmm.

But you do give the impression that you know everything at times.

Duncans Donuts

Dude, stop bringing up gopro. We have a great relationship with him, and though we may disagree, he conducts himself intelligently, cohesively, and coherently.

Read: coherently. Bringing up gopro is entirely inappropriate, as he has nothing to do with this discussion. It is an attempt to draw attention away from the facts.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

Saturday Fever

Johnnny, using someone else's credibility to try to establish your own is laughable at best.

yay.

Johnnny

Saturday Fever

Anyway I could see that if you were a 300+lbs man that your chest would be very, very large despite incline work, but I'm sure that 300lbs man did a lot of incline work at some point in his life to get that way.

The 2003 World's Strongest Man that you see on ESPN & TSN all the time goes to my gym with another ranked buddy of his. Their chest routine is this,

4 sets of flat bench press
4 sets of incline bench press
4 sets of either incline db flies or dips

That's it that's all & they're a good 280-300lbs at 6ft tall & 6ft3 with a 820lb squat.

Johnnny

Saturday Fever

Actually that's not what I'm doing, I'm just making a point that even very exerienced ppl believe the same thing regarding this topic such as Gopro.

So I guess Gopro is giving bad advice to.

Did you know that he is a trainer as well?

I think he knows what he's doing or he wouldn't have a job.

Saturday Fever

Those guys are also loaded on steroids. They could develop a massive chest sitting on the john taking a dump. What's your point?

Again, you have NO backing or evidence. Just anecdotal stories. Try again. This time, think and speak for yourself.

yay.

Johnnny

Duncans Donuts

Again I'm just showing that I'm not alone regarding this one.

Saturday Fever

What does gopro have to do with anything? You think dropping his name every other post makes anything YOU say worth a hill of beans? If I added "Dave Tate says.." to every post I made, two things could be learned:

1) I can't think or speak for myself.
2) I don't really have any knowledge, but I can read.

Thanks but I'd rather be my own person and earn my own credibility.

yay.

Johnnny

Saturday Fever

This is true, but there are ppl who take steroids & don't train properly & they don't make any gains of any kind & they might as well have flushed their money down the toilet.

Duncans Donuts

NO, you are not bud. You are using his belief in something to try and divert attention, and I quote

Instead of standing up and telling us why you believe (btw: saying "because i said so" is not evidence), you continuously refer to gopro and if we DISAGREE with what you say, we must hate gopro and think he's a fool.

You have done this repeatedly, in other threads. It's spineless.

"in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

Saturday Fever

Thank you for proving my point.

yay.

largepkg

First of all take a look back at my post before you accuse me of anything!

My only problem with you is you don't seem to have an original thought of your own. Regurgitating someone Else's knowledge doesn't make you knowledgeable!

Johnnny

Saturday Fever

Like I already said I obviously have to list someone's name who has credibility Gopro is in my favor.

Like I also already said I've believed this about the chest for 9yrs now so I already had my own opinions. But since a few of you think I'm full of sh!t on this one, then I figure maybe someone like Gopro with some credibility will convince you ppl other wise. By saying I'm full of sh!t having the same belief you are also saying that he is full of it & I personally don't think that Gopro is.
I believe that Gopro knows what he is talking about more so than any of you here.

But Gopro did say it was pointless to try as some ppl are too smart for their own good.

Duncans Donuts

I am just pointing out that Gopro shares the same belief that I've had for about 9yrs now regarding the pectorals.

largepkg

As I've already said that I've had this belief & opinion regarding the pectorals for about 9yrs now & I've only been here since the summer.

Do the math.

Saturday Fever

No, you do NOT have to list someone's name simply because you lack the ability to express yourself. If doing an incline press will somehow improve your ability to build the mysterious "upper chest" then PROVE it. Saying "gopro agrees" is not proof. Proof is FACT.

Great that you think so highly of him. And yet, I've laid an open challenge to PROVE it and nobody has ever stepped up. Instead they counter with slop like, "you wouldn't believe my proof." Well, SHOW me your proof. And be prepared for me to either agree or question your proof. If it is truly proof, it is backed by evidence and no question I ask won't have an answer. That is what facts are. You present a fact, I question it, you provide evidence. Maybe I question still and you provide further evidence that further backs the FACT you have presented. But NOBODY can do this.

Funny you should use that expression, "too smart for their own good." It implies we should all be stupid and just accept what we're told without questioning or seeking proof. I think you dug yourself a nice hole there.

yay.

gopro

Haven't you people figured this out yet...I AM Jonnny!

Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines.

GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep

www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau!

Personal Training
Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching.
Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

largepkg

MaxMirkin

............(I knew it!)

The lions sing and the hills take flight.
The moon by day, and the sun by night.
Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

Johnnny

All I have to say is that I'm going to continue training the way I've trained for the last 10yrs almost.

But please don't tell this poor innocent newbie that he doesn't have to do any upper chest presses or any upper chest work at all & his chest will still fully develop b/c it's just nonsense.

He needs to hit his pecs from all angles & grips especially now b/c he is still going through puberty & he will make a lot of gains during this time.

russianalex

this is really confusing

whos who?

im me but who are you

is going on here?!?!

KEEP AT IT, AND YOU WILL MOST CERTAINLY SUCEED
WEIGHT=180
HEIGHT=5'10"
BENCH=150
LEG PRESS=220
PUSHUPS=20 MAX (I CAN DO 20)
CRUNCHES=50-70(DEPENDING ON THE DAY AND TIME)
SITUPS=30 MAX

gopro

Get used to it...life gets more confusing as you go along...

Monthly columnist for Muscular Development and Ironman magazines.

GOLIATH LABS Sponsored Athlete/Board Rep

www.prrstraining.com Time to GROW Without Plateau!

Personal Training
Gopro is available for online personal training, dietary guidance, and contest prep coaching.
Send me a PM or e-mail if interested. Thank you.

CowPimp

Alright, so in the case of the pectoralis major, which has two heads with different origins, you might be able to recruit all the fibers in one head but not the other?

The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing...

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[quote=gococksDJS]Read this caption concerning incline press from Dr. Richard Dryden, who used to be an anatomy professor at Guy's Hospital Medical School in London, England, and who is currently a Biology professor at the University of Plymouth.

"The muscles involved are similar to those outlined for the bench press, with the main difference being that the incline bench press is designed to put more stress specifically on the upper fibres of pectoralis major muscle. Pectoralis major is a fan-shaped muscle that has an extensive medial attachment to the ribs, sternum, and clavicle and then narrows down to its attachment to the humerus. Thus, the upper fibres are passing laterally and slightly downwards, the middle fibres are passing laterally, and the lower fibres are passing laterally and upwards. By the use of incline, decline, and standard bench press exercises it is possible to target specific parts of pectoralis major."
QUOTE]

I am not here to argue with anyone (done enough of that in the past. Sorry DD and SNF). But based on the facts that Johnny showed here, can someone explain to me factually why this is make a certain part of the chest grow. I still don't understand why and would like to fully understand. I understand the one insertion and origin points, but if the fibers are arranged in different "patterns" then couldnt they be recruited differently in different exercise at different angles and hence grow differently. That quote did say that you could target specific parts. Again, I am asking not arguing, I would really like to know.
I think I was going to agree with everyone (except johnny) until I saw this. I will agree with him in the fact that no one is showing evidence that says you cant "isolate" a certain part. Again, trying to be fair. And I think quoting someone else, whether they be real, "in a science book" or theoritical is all that anyone does. So, him quoting GP is actually ok, unless GP is just spouting opinion and not fact. Maybe it would help if someone could quote or link to a reference that says you cant do it. I'm not disagreeing with them, just saying it would slam dunk the conversation if that would occur. Cause just saying "science" doesnt help me learn, I need to see it written in a reputable source, non opinionated. Again, trying to help and learn. See, I didnt even call DD or SNF a bad name this time. I must be in a PCT or something.

THAT WHICH DOES NOT KILL ME, CERTAINLY MUST MAKE ME STRONGER

Saturday Fever

Nope. Shared insertion point at the Humerus. If the shoulder rotate inwards, both heads will flex.

yay.