bench pressing

russianalex · 10-20-2004, 08:19 AM

what is the difference between incline,. flat, and decline
i can do flat and decline but incline is not a go..i cant even get the bar off of of the damn holders

**Mudge** · 10-20-2004, 08:32 AM

Incline hits the shoulders a lot more. Some people at my gym put a plate under the chair to bolster it up, however there are also 3 positions to choose from on the rack. Or you can slide a chair into a power rack. I'm 6'2" and use the center portion with the seat at its highest setting, and the incline at my gym is fixed unless I slide a chair into a power rack setup. I dont do any overhead pressing because of the steep incline.

bulletproof1 · 10-20-2004, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russianalex

i cant even get the bar off of of the damn holders

ummmmm decrease the weight?

Johnnny · 10-20-2004, 09:08 AM

Mudge is right.

The incline presses work primarily the upper portion of your pecs that are below your front delts. But your shoulders greatly come into play.

The flat bench primarily works the middle area of your chest & decline works the lower area of the chest.

There are some ppl who would disagree with this & say that the chest develops as a whole, but it's very important to do all angles of the chest.

But it's also important not to train your chest & shoulders on the same day or on back to back days for the reason Mudge & I listed, that your shoulders play a huge part in your chest workout.

I also agree that power racks are very useful.

Some times I use the squatting cage racks & adjust the supports with a bench to the appropriate level.

**CowPimp** · 10-20-2004, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

Mudge is right.

The incline presses work primarily the upper portion of your pecs that are below your front delts. But your shoulders greatly come into play.

The flat bench primarily works the middle area of your chest & decline works the lower area of the chest.

There are some ppl who would disagree with this & say that the chest develops as a whole, but it's very important to do all angles of the chest.

But it's also important not to train your chest & shoulders on the same day or on back to back days for the reason Mudge & I listed, that your shoulders play a huge part in your chest workout.

I also agree that power racks are very useful.

Some times I use the squatting cage racks & adjust the supports with a bench to the appropriate level.

Mudge is right, but your post contains misinformation. First of all, you cannot isolate a certain portion of the pectoralis major. It is one muscle. It contracts as a whole. Although you can stimulate different fibers via different movements, you cannot choose which fibers are stimulated as a result. In addition, the muscle will still grow as a whole.

There is also no middle or lower chest. As I said, it is one muscle. It is important to hit use the chest in different movements for the reason I already laid out, but you cannot isolate certain portions of the chest. If you want to make it appear as though your upper chest is larger, then the anterior delt will help. The muscle runs under the top of the pectoralis major, and will push it out more creating the illusion of more mass on the upper portion of the chest.

There is absolutely no reason you cannot do chest and shoulders on the same day. A very common split is push, pull, legs. However, since you already use your shoulders in various chest movements, you won't need to do as many sets for the shoulders since you would have slightly pre-exhausted them with the pressing movements.

Now, Alex, if you are having trouble getting the bar off, then you have two choices. One, lower the weight. You are not going to be able to incline press as much as you bench press. Two, you can raise the holders. You will be at a mechanical advantage if the stands are higher and all you have to do to get the bar off is lock out your arms the last few inches.

Johnnny · 10-20-2004, 10:12 AM

cowpimp

Quote:

Mudge is right, but your post contains misinformation. First of all, you cannot isolate a certain portion of the pectoralis major. It is one muscle. It contracts as a whole. Although you can stimulate different fibers via different movements, you cannot choose which fibers are stimulated as a result. In addition, the muscle will still grow as a whole.

Here we go again

There are many who will disagree with you.

You can't expect to be able to incline bench 255lbs if you only do flat bench press plain & simple.

Your upper chest area will not develop by doing flat bench press or decline bench press alone.

I've even spoken to steroid users regarding this matter & they feel the same way even with steroids they still need to train their upper, middle, & lower pecs to develop everything.

Why is it that guys who only do flat bench that can do 275 or 315lbs one day decide that they should be doing incline presses & they can't even do 185lbs on incline bench compared to their flat bench?

It's simple you have to work all areas of your chest from all angles to make the entire chest grow.

**CowPimp** · 10-20-2004, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

Here we go again

There are many who will disagree with you.

You can't expect to be able to incline bench 255lbs if you only do flat bench press plain & simple.

Your upper chest area will not develop by doing flat bench press or decline bench press alone.

I've even spoken to steroid users regarding this matter & they feel the same way even with steroids they still need to train their upper, middle, & lower pecs to develop everything.

Why is it that guys who only do flat bench that can do 275 or 315lbs one day decide that they should be doing incline presses & they can't even do 185lbs on incline bench compared to their flat bench?

It's simple you have to work all areas of your chest from all angles to make the entire chest grow.

The reason you can't expect "to incline bench 255lbs if you only do flat bench press" is because your central nervous system has to adapt to each movement before you reach a higher level of neuromuscular efficiency. Most of the time, any new movement you choose to do will improve more rapidly than a movement you have been using most of your training career.

When I first started parallel squatting with correct form, I couldn't do as much weight as I could going ass to grass with incorrect form. How does that make sense? Because my central nervous system had adapted to the incorrect movement. The same thing happened with my bench press. Now, both movements are catching up and surpassing my previous numbers.

You can develop an "upper chest" with only flat and decline movements, as long as your anterior delts are large and you have good genetics in terms of the shape of your chest muscle.

Johnnny · 10-20-2004, 10:28 AM

cowpimp

Quote:

The reason you can't expect "to incline bench 255lbs if you only do flat bench press" is because your central nervous system has to adapt to each movement before you reach a higher level of neuromuscular efficiency. Most of the time, any new movement you choose to do will improve more rapidly than a movement you have been using most of your training career.

When I first started parallel squatting with correct form, I couldn't do as much weight as I could going ass to grass with incorrect form. How does that make sense? Because my central nervous system had adapted to the incorrect movement. The same thing happened with my bench press. Now, both movements are catching up and surpassing my previous numbers.

You can develop an "upper chest" with only flat and decline movements, as long as your anterior delts are large and you have good genetics in terms of the shape of your chest muscle.

Pure rubbish.

Then how come these guys who just do 5 sets have no upper chest what so ever, never mind a full cleavage.

**CowPimp** · 10-20-2004, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

cowpimp

Pure rubbish.

Then how come these guys who just do 5 sets have no upper chest what so ever, never mind a full cleavage.

Pure rubbish? I'm quoting doctors and informatoin based on scientific studies.

Also, how can you generalize that guys who do 5 sets have no upper chest? Did you travel all throughout the world, take a random sample of people with the most varied level of genetics you could possibly find, and put them through a battery of scientific studies. Or, again, are you pulling numbers out of your ass?

Johnnny · 10-20-2004, 10:50 AM

Cowpimp

Quote:

Pure rubbish? I'm quoting doctors and informatoin based on scientific studies.

Also, how can you generalize that guys who do 5 sets have no upper chest? Did you travel all throughout the world, take a random sample of people with the most varied level of genetics you could possibly find, and put them through a battery of scientific studies. Or, again, are you pulling numbers out of your ass?

Yes pure rubbish.

Doctors? They hardly know a thing about bodybuilding or training in general.

I had a doctor who told me to stop doing weights b/c he thinks I was an unhealthy weight even though my BF% was around 15%. He told me I should only be doing cardio & that 170lbs would be a much better body weight for someone 5ft10.

So don't even start with doctors. They know family medicine, drugs, surgeries & so on, they don't know much at all about training unless of course they bodybuild or have played sports themselves that require training.

As for ppl who only do 5 sets of flat bench having no upper chest development or power, I've been to enough gyms in large cities to see how these guys train & seen their non existing shape that they try to show off in their tank tops.

Yes genetics plays an important role, but if you don't even train certain areas they won't develop.

Myself for instance my chest cleavage doesn't fill out completely near the very top, it never did & I was incline benching 265lbs for about 4-6 reps & I'm currently doing 245lbs for about 5-7 reps & using 95's for incline flies with a full upper pectoral stretch & it still doesn't fill out entirely in the cleavage area. The outer area of the upper portion of the pecs fills out & connects along with the area that connect with the front delts.

It's genetic.

But if you don't even do the movements, those areas will majorly be lacking nor will you have power for those movements.

**CowPimp** · 10-20-2004, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnny

Cowpimp

Yes pure rubbish.

Doctors? They hardly know a thing about bodybuilding or training in general.

I had a doctor who told me to stop doing weights b/c he thinks I was an unhealthy weight even though my BF% was around 15%. He told me I should only be doing cardio & that 170lbs would be a much better body weight for someone 5ft10.

So don't even start with doctors. They know family medicine, drugs, surgeries & so on, they don't know much at all about training unless of course they bodybuild or have played sports themselves that require training.

As for ppl who only do 5 sets of flat bench having no upper chest development or power, I've been to enough gyms in large cities to see how these guys train & seen their non existing shape that they try to show off in their tank tops.

Yes genetics plays an important role, but if you don't even train certain areas they won't develop.

Myself for instance my chest cleavage doesn't fill out completely near the very top, it never did & I was incline benching 265lbs for about 4-6 reps & I'm currently doing 245lbs for about 5-7 reps & using 95's for incline flies with a full upper pectoral stretch & it still doesn't fill out entirely in the cleavage area. The outer area of the upper portion of the pecs fills out & connects along with the area that connect with the front delts.

It's genetic.

But if you don't even do the movements, those areas will majorly be lacking nor will you have power for those movements.

I should have been more clear. I am talking about doctors of physiology, kinesiology, and anatomy. Not medical doctors. You do know a doctor is someone who has a PhD, not just a medical doctor, right?

So you know the routine of every guy with an undeveloped chest in all the gyms you have been to? Wow, you must do a lot of chatting and very little weight training to have such a large amount of knowledge about everyone around you who is training.

The whole muscle contracts. Try to forcibly contract part of a muscle. I dare you. A muscle doesn't know the difference between one movement and another, only your central nervous system does.

Rocco32 · 10-20-2004, 11:03 AM

Johhhhny, you should just let people who know what they are talkind about answer these training questions. Stop trying and messing newbies up with your idiocy! Thank you and have a nice day

**Mudge** · 10-20-2004, 11:12 AM

I work with around 20-25% less weight on inclines when I do them, which is the end of my chest workout. Vince Taylor didn't do incline work as best I recall.

russianalex · 10-20-2004, 11:20 AM

so basically with an incline bench i should do less. and a decline, flat, and incline work diff parts of your chest?

bulletproof1 · 10-20-2004, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock4832

Johhhhny, you should just let people who know what they are talkind about answer these training questions. Stop trying and messing newbies up with your idiocy! Thank you and have a nice day

thats a classic.

hey johnnny

gococksDJS · 10-20-2004, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russianalex

so basically with an incline bench i should do less. and a decline, flat, and incline work diff parts of your chest?

When it comes to incline, it's not that you should do less its that most people can't do as much as flat press. It is very rare to see someone who can do the same 1RM at flat and incline. Incorporating all three presses into your workout routine is the best way to achieve full pectoral balance. For full chest development you need a variety of exercises that target your upper, middle, lower, inner and outer pectorals. Decline works your lower chest, flat press targets your overall chest but doesn't isolate the upper chest enough to bring them into full development. Incline press targets the upper chest. Flyes are good for inner chest development and use a wider grip on flatpress for outer chest.

**CowPimp** · 10-20-2004, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russianalex

so basically with an incline bench i should do less. and a decline, flat, and incline work diff parts of your chest?

No, they don't work different parts of your chest. A muscle contracts as a whole. You cannot contract different parts of a muscle. A little tip to learning good information on IM forums: don't listen to anything Johnnny says. He may have some good information occasionally, but in general, ignore his posts.

**CowPimp** · 10-20-2004, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

When it comes to incline, it's not that you should do less its that most people can't do as much as flat press. It is very rare to see someone who can do the same 1RM at flat and incline. Incorporating all three presses into your workout routine is the best way to achieve full pectoral balance. For full chest development you need a variety of exercises that target your upper, middle, lower, inner and outer pectorals. Decline works your lower chest, flat press targets your overall chest but doesn't isolate the upper chest enough to bring them into full development. Incline press targets the upper chest. Flyes are good for inner chest development and use a wider grip on flatpress for outer chest.

NO. What are you basing this information on? Are you just assuming that based on what you hear through the grapevine? Can you explain how this works to me, please?

pmech · 10-20-2004, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

When it comes to incline, it's not that you should do less its that most people can't do as much as flat press. It is very rare to see someone who can do the same 1RM at flat and incline. Incorporating all three presses into your workout routine is the best way to achieve full pectoral balance. For full chest development you need a variety of exercises that target your upper, middle, lower, inner and outer pectorals. Decline works your lower chest, flat press targets your overall chest but doesn't isolate the upper chest enough to bring them into full development. Incline press targets the upper chest. Flyes are good for inner chest development and use a wider grip on flatpress for outer chest.

I LOVE these threads.

**P-funk** · 10-20-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock4832

Johhhhny, you should just let people who know what they are talkind about answer these training questions. Stop trying and messing newbies up with your idiocy! Thank you and have a nice day

fianlly!!! Someone said it!!

bulletproof1 · 10-20-2004, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowPimp

A little tip to learning good information on IM forums: don't listen to anything Johnnny says. He may have some good information occasionally, but in general, ignore his posts.

damn johnnny you are very popular around here today.

**CowPimp** · 10-20-2004, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

fianlly!!! Someone said it!!

Indeed. I'm glad someone stepped in to help me. I was getting quite annoyed. I thought this poor young man was going to go into the training world filled with Johnnny's training ideologies. I was worried.

russianalex · 10-20-2004, 01:35 PM

Thanks Guys But I Really Dont Know Who Is Right And Who Is Wrong Untill I Get A Few Opinions Asnd Try Them Out Myself
Its Kinda Hard For Me Tho Becuase Some Ppl Are Saying There Is Notihng I Can Do About The Nipple Problem And That Only Surgery Can Remove It..also Someone Said That I Need Lots Of Shakes And Gym Memberships
I Have A Thing In My Basement Its All Good I Just Need To Perfect My Routine And Finetune Evrything

10-20-2004, 08:19 AM	#1
russianalex Super Pumper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 36 Photos: 3	bench pressing what is the difference between incline,. flat, and decline i can do flat and decline but incline is not a go..i cant even get the bar off of of the damn holders

10-20-2004, 08:32 AM	#2
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,994 Photos: 1	Incline hits the shoulders a lot more. Some people at my gym put a plate under the chair to bolster it up, however there are also 3 positions to choose from on the rack. Or you can slide a chair into a power rack. I'm 6'2" and use the center portion with the seat at its highest setting, and the incline at my gym is fixed unless I slide a chair into a power rack setup. I dont do any overhead pressing because of the steep incline.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-20-2004, 11:03 AM	#12
Rocco32 UNLEASH THE BEAST Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 22,316 Photos: 18	Johhhhny, you should just let people who know what they are talkind about answer these training questions. Stop trying and messing newbies up with your idiocy! Thank you and have a nice day
	I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...

10-20-2004, 11:12 AM	#13
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,994 Photos: 1	I work with around 20-25% less weight on inclines when I do them, which is the end of my chest workout. Vince Taylor didn't do incline work as best I recall.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

10-20-2004, 09:08 AM	#4
Johnnny Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 2,844	Mudge is right. The incline presses work primarily the upper portion of your pecs that are below your front delts. But your shoulders greatly come into play. The flat bench primarily works the middle area of your chest & decline works the lower area of the chest. There are some ppl who would disagree with this & say that the chest develops as a whole, but it's very important to do all angles of the chest. But it's also important not to train your chest & shoulders on the same day or on back to back days for the reason Mudge & I listed, that your shoulders play a huge part in your chest workout. I also agree that power racks are very useful. Some times I use the squatting cage racks & adjust the supports with a bench to the appropriate level.

10-20-2004, 11:20 AM	#14
russianalex Super Pumper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 36 Photos: 3	so basically with an incline bench i should do less. and a decline, flat, and incline work diff parts of your chest?

10-20-2004, 01:35 PM	#23
russianalex Super Pumper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 36 Photos: 3	Thanks Guys But I Really Dont Know Who Is Right And Who Is Wrong Untill I Get A Few Opinions Asnd Try Them Out Myself Its Kinda Hard For Me Tho Becuase Some Ppl Are Saying There Is Notihng I Can Do About The Nipple Problem And That Only Surgery Can Remove It..also Someone Said That I Need Lots Of Shakes And Gym Memberships I Have A Thing In My Basement Its All Good I Just Need To Perfect My Routine And Finetune Evrything