Zin

Ok, I know the idea behind slow and fast twitch muscle fibers and genetic predisposition and all but is there any way to explain this phenomenon: Every day in my gym there are a number of rather large individuals who can thow around some serious weight...then there is a very small guy id say not more than 140-150lbs who is very lean who can literally put up twice as much as the biggest guys there on most of the lifts, no exageration. I think this is very strange because these 200lb+ guys have serious muscular structure and they outdone by someone who is literally half their size. I just think this is strange as hell because he does not have visably big muscles and I have also seen him doing sets to exaustion with crazy numbers of reps - that would cover the slow twitch side as well. So, is there any such thing as someone having muscle fiber more densly packed than another?

DimebagDarrell

you'll always have the same number of muscle fibers. you can't add new fibers, but you can make the ones you have much larger and stronger. size is not necessarily an indication of strength, there's a guy who was featured in M&F a while ago who was only like 160-170 lbs but could curl 300. he was shooting to be the first man under 170 pounds to curl 400 pounds. he does a full-body workout once every two weeks, with only two sets of one rep each per body part, one rep at 85% and on the next set one rep at 100%. size is an indicator of strength, but not necessarily. there's guys with bigger arms than me curling less than me, and guys with bigger chests repping 155 lbs on their bench

cutting sucks.

Yanick

it boils down to pretty much nervous system efficiency and each person's unique anatomy (such as insertions of tendons, and length of bones etc.)

"...we have to remember that training is a complicated dance of stimuli and response. Our goal is to understand how to manipulate the stimuli in order to evoke the responses we desire." -Nathan J. Polenchek

Duncans Donuts

Yep.

Why the hell would someone want to curl 400 pounds?

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DimebagDarrell

bragging rights?

cutting sucks.

wtfzor

genetics play a big part, also note that strength /= size.
to be truly strong you also need to have strong tendons.
of course if you lift weight to gain size you will also gain strength, and vice versa, but there is always a specific method to reach each goal.

different people have different genetics and muscle composition, you are born with the amount of muscle fibre you have, you can't increase them but you can make them bigger (hypertrophy).

Train beyond the pain...and death is your only release

DimebagDarrell

to expand on what wtfzor said, the definition of hypertrophy is: "A nontumorous enlargement of an organ or a tissue as a result of an increase in the size rather than the number of constituent cells"

be aware that hypertrophy CAN occur without muscle soreness. muscle soreness is NOT necessarily an indicator of hypertrophy. but it is hypertrophy that we are aiming for when we lift weights.

cutting sucks.

IONOR

This is called Hyperplasia athough it has not been scientifically proven in humans yet. It has in rats (and other animals eg cats) so we can't say one way or the other right now if we can add knew fibers through Hyperplasia just yet.
Muscle strength has more to do with nervous system adaptions and nuromuscular addaptions than muscle size (that is why powerlifters and stongmen train diffrently than Bodybuilders)

(The many stages of Bodybuilding)

Deezus

interesting.......nervous system adaptations.... so this means your muscles may possess a much much greater potential to perform, but your nervous system may have put a "limiter" on it? hmmmmmm... tell more, How do these adaptations occur?

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CowPimp

I'm just going to copy and paste what I said in another thread:

The reason one gains strength without increasing muscle mass is many fold. First, there are the intramuscular forms of improving strength:

• Increased neuromuscular efficiency is the main reason. Basically, your central nervous system is able to activate a greater number of motor units, and therefore muscle fibers, to complete the task at hand.

• Rate coding is also very important. Essentially, a higher level of rate coding means that motor units have increased their firing rates, which leads to increased force generation.

• Motor unit synchronization can also help. I think the name of this form of adaptation is pretty self-explanatory.

• Increased rate of force generation is yet another reason. More motor units can be activated in less time. This creates a greater acceleration of the weight being moved.

Intermuscular improvements are also important. The basic idea is that your body, and more specifically your central nervous system, can coordinate movements among separate muscles in such a way that the desired movement is performed in the most efficient manner possible.

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WilliamB

lol

Deezus

thanks for the reply Cowpimp.... What kind of things could one do to acheive these greater force generation and Rate Coding? High concentration? Varied exersices for same muscle group? Sounds like something I would like to know more about......

"A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done. The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender." ~Vince Lombardi

CowPimp

The greatest increases in intramuscular performance come with the maximal effort method of resistance training. Basically, hitting your one rep max with the proper warmups and weight acclimation.

A quicker rate of force generation can be achieved through the dynamic effort method of training. Use sub-maximal weights (Somewhere between 50-70% of your 1RM), but use compensatory acceleration. Also, don't lift until you are fatigued. Make sure you can explode at full speed on all sets that you complete.

Using the repeated effort and sub-maximal effort methods is also a good idea. These are more geared towards inducing hypertrophy because of the maximal degradation of contractile proteins that these methods produce. Essentially, the more muscle mass you have, the greater your potential is to lift more. This is the rep range that your classic bodybuilding routines use (4-12). Make sure you eat a lot too though. Attempts to gain mass are for naught if you don't have the proper nutrition to recover and supercompensate.

Try a powerlifting protocol. Many of them will incorporate these methods. Westside is the one I am trying right now. I am having excellent results so far.

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